Jonathan Lucroy Trade Challenge

[pacopete4]

Thank you Dave Cameron for finally writing a sensible article!!!

 

Here's another fanciful suggestion:

 

C Jonathan Lucroy

RHP Matt Garza (and all or most of Garza's remaining contract in $$$)

 

for

 

C Blake Swihart

2B/SS Yoan Moncada

3B Garin Ceccihini

 

Swihart fills an immediate need as Lucroy's replacement and our catcher of the future, and Milwaukee finally gets the guy they really wanted in Moncada. Eating all or most of Garza's salary offsets most of Boston's financial commitment in Moncada and essentially just lets us "win" the bidding on him like we wanted to in the first place. I think you would actually still need a piece like Cecchini to balance the trade, and he fills another big need for Milwaukee as a possible starter at 3B, but if Boston loves him then we could ask for a lesser third piece instead.

 

I like it. Could Moncada fill the hole at 3B himself? Maybe we get an arm in the deal instead of Ceccihini?

 

Segura

Gennett

Arcia

Sardinas

Moncada

 

All to fill 2B, 3B and SS... Yes please.

[Jenkins5]

Maybe someone one more realistic than Moncada. Unless are paying the Red Sox back the amount of tax money they had to money up to get him. They didn't invest that much in a player just to flip him. Not to mention they have the top catching prospect in baseball who is about to get called up I believe. Doubt they pull the plug on him and go get Lucroy. I just don't see Boston making that move.

[TooLiveBrew]

Swihart was called up a couple days ago actually

[reillymcshane]

Just keep in mind when saying that teams won't trade X prospect because he's such a huge talent, not long ago Jurickson Profar was considered arguably the best prospect in baseball. Fast forward two years and now Profar has a very questionable future.

 

So while it is true that there are some prospects which teams likely won't even consider trading, Lucroy would be incredibly valuable on the trade market given he's in his prime, plays a position with few great players, and his contract is ridiculously team friendly over the next two and a half years.

 

Lucroy is a proven MLB commodity, something no prospect is until they actually do it in the majors. If he really was put on the trade market before the deadline assuming he's healthy, he'll command elite minor league talent, especially given his contract status.

I badly want to load up on prospects, but as you point out, there are no guarantees. Even top guys crash and burn. You could get David Price or someone like Ian Stewart, Delmon Young, Andy Marte or Joba Chamberlain. For 2.5 years of Luc, a team could easily land 12-13 WAR. Plus they could extend him to add to that (or perhaps get a draft pick if he walks).

 

The other thing is that a team that gets Luc gets that value now. A prospect might still be in the minors, and even when they arrive, they often take time to develop. Luc gives a team immediate value.

 

No matter who we offer, there will still be players who a team won't part with. Some of that is that the team really values the player, some of that is the team doesn't need Luc at this time. Or a combination of the two. The Phillies aren't going to give up Aaron Nola in a trade package for Luc because they are in rebuild mode. I'd be surprised is the Dodgers gave up Urias with their rotation issues. I doubt Houston gives up Correa due to the way the GM has been operating (not to mention his talent).

[Outlander]

The Mariners have been pretty horrible at the catcher position so they could potentially target him but looking at their prospects they appear to have a worse farm system than the Brewers. I like Edwin Diaz and they have a couple of decent catching prospects but they need much more than that. I wonder how badly the Brewers want to get rid of Braun, maybe if they package Lucroy with Braun a trade could get done, as Ackley is terrible in left as well.

[jerichoholicninja]

The Mariners have been pretty horrible at the catcher position so they could potentially target him but looking at their prospects they appear to have a worse farm system than the Brewers. I like Edwin Diaz and they have a couple of decent catching prospects but they need much more than that. I wonder how badly the Brewers want to get rid of Braun, maybe if they package Lucroy with Braun a trade could get done, as Ackley is terrible in left as well.

 

Zunino is a young and a former top prospect. I doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

[pacopete4]

The Mariners have been pretty horrible at the catcher position so they could potentially target him but looking at their prospects they appear to have a worse farm system than the Brewers. I like Edwin Diaz and they have a couple of decent catching prospects but they need much more than that. I wonder how badly the Brewers want to get rid of Braun, maybe if they package Lucroy with Braun a trade could get done, as Ackley is terrible in left as well.

 

Zunino is a young and a former top prospect. I doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

 

Would they take on Lucroy for him? Plus they throw in Paxton and another prospect arm and we give Lohse or Garza? Helps them go after it now while we "retool."

[Warning Track Power]

C Jonathan Lucroy

RHP Matt Garza (and all or most of Garza's remaining contract in $$$)

 

for

 

C Blake Swihart

2B/SS Yoan Moncada

3B Garin Ceccihini

 

Coupling this deal with a Gomez trade to the Mets for SP like Syndergaard and/or Matz and the Brewers re-build could be relatively quick.

[Raw Biz]

C Jonathan Lucroy

RHP Matt Garza (and all or most of Garza's remaining contract in $$$)

 

for

 

C Blake Swihart

2B/SS Yoan Moncada

3B Garin Ceccihini

 

Coupling this deal with a Gomez trade to the Mets for SP like Syndergaard and/or Matz and the Brewers re-build could be relatively quick.

 

If we can turn Lucroy, Garza, and Gomez into Swihart, Moncada, Cecchini, and Syndergaard, I would be ecstatic. Our farm system should instantly jump into the top 3rd of teams. I would put 3 of those 4 as our top prospects ahead of Arcia/Coulter. That is a pretty darn good top 5.

[pacopete4]

C Jonathan Lucroy

RHP Matt Garza (and all or most of Garza's remaining contract in $$$)

 

for

 

C Blake Swihart

2B/SS Yoan Moncada

3B Garin Ceccihini

 

Coupling this deal with a Gomez trade to the Mets for SP like Syndergaard and/or Matz and the Brewers re-build could be relatively quick.

 

If we can turn Lucroy, Garza, and Gomez into Swihart, Moncada, Cecchini, and Syndergaard, I would be ecstatic. Our farm system should instantly jump into the top 3rd of teams. I would put 3 of those 4 as our top prospects ahead of Arcia/Coulter. That is a pretty darn good top 5.

 

If we got all that, screw the farm. Put them on the team and let Counsell mold them into pros.

[MrTPlush]

The Brewers are not getting Moncada in a trade let alone with Swihart. The Red Sox shelled out $32mil upfront for him. They won't just eat that money. Swihart also doesn't make a whole lot of sense from the Sox perspective unless he struggles badly at the MLB level. I'd imagine they would roll with him if he is close to average.

[Raw Biz]

The Brewers are not getting Moncada in a trade let alone with Swihart. The Red Sox shelled out $32mil upfront for him. They won't just eat that money. Swihart also doesn't make a whole lot of sense from the Sox perspective unless he struggles badly at the MLB level. I'd imagine they would roll with him if he is close to average.

 

I know it's not realistic, I actually had something written down about Melvin being the greatest GM of all time if he pulled that off. But then I remembered Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall.

[mlloyd10]

Lucroy/Garza for Pederson/Jackson

 

Gomez for Matz/Plawecki

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm thinking that with Lucroy being referred to as off the trade market...

It really shows what I've been saying on prospects to acquire. There's not the prospect to acquire suiting Lucroys values from teams who fitas buyers vs teams who fit as sellers, vs teams that are in division.

 

Think about what I listed for a proposal. It's just not there. I think the top 25 are a big separation from the rest. And the rest aren't a good starting point.

[Boomer5]

I would not trade Lucroy for anything less than a top-15 prospect or multiple top-50 prospects. He would legitimately be the most valuable asset the franchise has ever traded (not because he's the best player, but he is an elite player and is ludicrously cheap for a few more years). And even that big piece or two would not be enough, Melvin should rightfully ask for a couple high-upside fliers to be tacked on as well.

 

I've thrown out my crazy Dodgers scenario in another thread (trading Lucroy and Garza for a package centered on Urias and Alex Guerrero), here's another interesting one:

 

C Jonathan Lucroy

3B Aramis Ramirez (+ $$$)

 

for

 

LHP Carlos Rodon

RHP Francellis Montas

3B Trey Micalczewski

C Kevan Smith

 

We already know the Brewers have a special fondness for Rodon.

 

That this is even a consideration by a conservative board like this is exactly why Luc needs to go on the market today. IF Rodon is realistic for a catcher that wont be a regular catcher in a year or two, then we need to go this route ASAP.

 

Doug should make him available and wait for the offers to come in.

[BrewBalls]

The Mariners have been pretty horrible at the catcher position so they could potentially target him but looking at their prospects they appear to have a worse farm system than the Brewers. I like Edwin Diaz and they have a couple of decent catching prospects but they need much more than that. I wonder how badly the Brewers want to get rid of Braun, maybe if they package Lucroy with Braun a trade could get done, as Ackley is terrible in left as well.

 

Zunino is a young and a former top prospect. I doubt they're ready to give up on him yet.

 

Would they take on Lucroy for him? Plus they throw in Paxton and another prospect arm and we give Lohse or Garza? Helps them go after it now while we "retool."

If we are trading Lucroy to Seattle, I would want a package of Walker/Paxton, Kivlehan, Marlette and Hultzen. This gives us on starting pitcher who can step in immediately and another with a high ceiling who is coming back from shoulder surgery along with an offensive catcher still a couple years away and 3B prospect who can take over in 2016. The Brewers would be buying low on Walker and Hultzen hoping one or both become a top of the rotation starter to slot next to Peralta and Nelson.

[brewcrewdue80]

To take a Walker/Paxton/Hultzen+package for Lucroy? Wasn't that about the package for Justin Upton? Something along that line?

 

Now, you're taking a former #2 talk Walker who's yet to really produce, and a former #3 projected Paxton who are pitching for the Mariners on the season. Hultzen was also a #2 type talk of a SP. You'd have to be insane to give away 2 top Pitching prospects for a Catcher, a position you had a top 40 prospect who's yet to come together on his own in Zunino.

 

There are just some things that don't make sense to me in the Mariners proposal. Why give up on Zunino and a #2 type SP in Walker to acquire a Catcher that had Zunino been what you thought he was, they'd be acquiring the same kind of player? Seattle is 5games under .500, do they have to put a team together to win today? Why rush to acquire Lucroy and ignore Walker/Zunino going through growing pains that may make you're team a Playoff dynasty type for the next 3 seasons? Lucroy isn't the piece the Mariners need for them to become playoff certainty. Zunino is healthy, they have a backstop to play, even if it's poorly currently for whatever reason?, it'd be something different if Zunino was out for the year, One of Paxton or Walker were pitching to #3 innings eating stuff vs #4 or worse type results to make the other expendable.

 

I try to always think like Melvin said about trades, especially since he's the Brewers GM who's going to make the trade happen, He's looking for trades that help both teams in theory. I don't see the Mariners trading for Lucroy helping them, unless they did it by trading Zunino to Milw plus maybe Walker and not a whole lot more if anything at all....And I'm sure the folks here laugh and think that's absurd to take on trash at this point for the AS Lucroy is.

 

Swihart from Boston. Another why type trade? I feel like that's a sideways move for Boston and then they have to add prospects to him.

 

Houston is another team that I don't get why make trades? You did all you did losing to create this kind of young quality core...Why move some today when it's your 1st year competiting? Stand pat and let the young team learn from the season and as you add Correa/Appel and whatnot of guys to your roster you have your winning team next season and the year after. Not just 2015 and maybe 2016 if you hadn't traded away your young core that was supposed to be joining your team.

 

Now, my team that I'd watch out for to acquire Lucroy, would be Arizona. They've always made some quirky trades, and I know that GM is gone, but Lucroy becoming the Catcher for them would really fit that team's core of players. You take the DBacks rotation that will get a Patrick Corbin back and having Archie Bradley to also sit atop the rotation, you can realistically see Arizona wanting Lucroy to make them a Playoff type team. But, like I said you gotta watch out for them, they have to maintain a record to be a Playoff run team. Imagine Lucroy mixed in with Goldschmidt through 2017? Nice tandem plus the Starting Pitching of Corbin/Bradley? Also DBacks were the team that went on Yasmany Tomas. Lucroy to Arizona makes a lot of sense.

How about from the prospect side?

Simple, they have Braden Shipley who essentially is Arizona's #1 prospect a top 40. I wouldn't think 2 young SP would be acquired in the trade, so no Blair or Toussaint and no Yoan Lopez. The next couple prospects would seem to fit Milw's needs. Brandon Drury a 3b prospect in AA and blocked by Tomas or Jake Lamb. Key here Blocked. Same can be said about Peter O'Brien a former Catcher prospect who's been moved to OF duty as he's being labeled more as a 1b prospect future...something Goldschmidt blocks as well. So a Shipley, Drury, O'Brien and then Jose Herrera a top International Catcher signee of a couple years back with some upside getting Milw a Catcher beyond Lucroy and Maldonado.

 

See how the trade would help both teams? It really depends how you view Shipley if you accept it or not.

[bill hAll Star]

I think the Dodgers' motivation for getting Luc will be diminished even further when Grandal has an .850 OPS (even better against RHP) after this weekend in Coors. Their platoon is going to work pretty darn well.

 

EDIT: That was before he smacked his 2nd HR of the day. Preller should have looked at the splits when downgrading from Grandal to Norris.

[Outlander]

Going back to the Mariners, there are definitely fans in the Seattle area not happy with the catching situation and the way Zunino has played. This weekend was one of his worst yet with a 4 strikeout day Friday and 0-5 on Saturday. There were definitely expectations for this team this year and they are not really meeting them and know that the Mariners need production at the C position to get there. Don't know if Lucroy is their answer but I think they are feeling the pressure over there and may make a reactionary trade by the deadline to try to appease some.

[reillymcshane]

Going back to the Mariners, there are definitely fans in the Seattle area not happy with the catching situation and the way Zunino has played. This weekend was one of his worst yet with a 4 strikeout day Friday and 0-5 on Saturday. There were definitely expectations for this team this year and they are not really meeting them and know that the Mariners need production at the C position to get there. Don't know if Lucroy is their answer but I think they are feeling the pressure over there and may make a reactionary trade by the deadline to try to appease some.

And the Mariners have got to be feeling the heat. This club is built to win now. Houston is playing great, but you have to wonder how long that will hold up. The rest of the division is week. I could see them going all in.

 

Right now, they could use Luc, Gomez and Lind in their lineup.

[wildcat2237]

Going back to the Mariners, there are definitely fans in the Seattle area not happy with the catching situation and the way Zunino has played. This weekend was one of his worst yet with a 4 strikeout day Friday and 0-5 on Saturday. There were definitely expectations for this team this year and they are not really meeting them and know that the Mariners need production at the C position to get there. Don't know if Lucroy is their answer but I think they are feeling the pressure over there and may make a reactionary trade by the deadline to try to appease some.

And the Mariners have got to be feeling the heat. This club is built to win now. Houston is playing great, but you have to wonder how long that will hold up. The rest of the division is week. I could see them going all in.

 

Right now, they could use Luc, Gomez and Lind in their lineup.

 

I don't think they have enough in their system to get Luc or Gomez, as I doubt they would want to give up on Taiquan Walker or James Paxton. Either way both have been terrible at the MLB level.

 

Outside of those two, who are pitching at the MLB level, the Mariners system is pretty bleh. Stefen Romero, a 3b, intrigues me but has sucked royally in his brief time in the bigs.

[brewcrewdue80]

Just to further WildCat's statement on Romero/Walker/Paxton. Has any of the Mariners prospects that were so highly regarded in the previous 2 seasons come to the Majors and produced at all? Brad Miller has been a fail. Nick Franklin isnt proving himself over in Tampa. There's Zunino. Just a bunch of failures to date. I just don't get why Zunino is failing so bad. a #3 pick in a draft, who breezed through I guess too quickly the Minors. Still, he's been getting his experience at the ML level, why hasn't he improved? Especially as a Catcher who gets to receive pitches from Felix Hernandez. Can he not recognize breaking pitches? Wouldn't repetition of catching make him the slight bit better at that? There had to be a reason why he was the #3 pick. One would think that kind of prospect/player would improve as he aged. But Zunino seems to be stuck in the mud. Obviously, his #3 draft picking is were his high prospect ranking came from. If Seattle hadn't called him up in 2013 and played him strictly in the minors for 2014 his lack of numbers would have decreased his ranking as time wore on.

 

Is there a Seattle Franchise bias in ranking their prospects going on? Overrating all of them practically? Dustin Ackley was a top 25 ranking and has a career OPS+ of 92 in over 2000PAs. But then again Kyle Seager never was a top 100 and he's coming off a near 6WAR season.

 

Just feel like Seattle's prospects almost seem so tainted can you really trust acquiring any of them? Of course there's the history of Seattle losing in trades and whomever they trade away wins the other team that trade. I don't even know if I'd take Walker with Romero for Lucroy(does Seattle also throw in Zunino? Maybe you include Lind to make that happen. Or better Lohse. And then hope that both Walker/Zunino age better and become the true talents they are? With Romero just being an avg ML 3b to fill for Ramirez.

[reillymcshane]

In a deal with Seattle, I'd start with Alex Jackson, the 6th pick in the draft last year, and Taijuan Walker.

 

Jackson is only 19, and like Monte Harrison, is struggling at A ball this year. Yes, he's a long way off, but I'm okay with that.

 

Walker is one of those guys who's hype has often been better than his performance. However, he is only 22, and he's been pushed pretty quickly by Seattle, reaching the majors at age 20. Baseball people feel he's got a ton of upside. I want the upside.

 

I'd try and sneak Danny Hultzen out of Seattle as well. I honestly don't know if he can pitch anymore, but he had the kind of upside that we need. Whether he can come back is another matter. But he's worth taking a flyer on.

 

I don't know if anything more can be had, but 1B/3B DJ Peterson is interesting. Big power guy. Might not hit quite enough.

 

I'd happily send back Lohse or Garza to fill Walker's spot in the rotation.

[wildcat2237]

brewdude,

 

I wouldn't trade them Lucroy or Gomez unless Walker is part of the deal. Even then, I'm not sure I would pull the trigger as Walker just didn't pass the eye test when I saw him throw for Tacoma and has been really bad this year.

 

However, would love to see Melvin flip Lohse or Lind and Krod, and get back Romero and one or two other mid level guys (Maybe guys like Edwin Diaz and Carson Smith).

 

Romero is blocked by Seager and has been moved to RF, which is not his natural position. He is hitting .306 .366 .559 .924 at Tacoma. In 2014 he put up a line of .358 .387 .669 1.055 in AAA. Problem is that he has 177 career MLB at bats and has posted a .192 .234 .299 .533 line. Elian Hererra could outproduce that line.

 

Not really sure how you hit .358 in triple A and under .200 in the bigs. Maybe just needs regular playing time.

[clancyphile]

How about this:

Oakland gets:

C/1B Jon Lucroy (MIL)

2B Scooter Gennett (MIL)

C Hank Conger (HOU)

 

Houston gets:

SS/3B Jacob Gatewood (MIL)

1B Ike Davis (OAK)

 

Milwaukee gets:

C Carson Blair (OAK)

2B Colin Walsh (OAK)

SS Carlos Codiera (HOU)

RHP Tim Atherton (OAK)

OF Brett Phillips (HOU)

LHP Josh Hader (HOU)