Jon Heyman says Lohse, Garza could be in play soon...

[pacopete4]

splitter, the sadness is this: their plan was all the guys they signed would have average career years and they would be contenders

 

My plan is to jump from super model to super model - and have each of them pay me a few million because after I have decided their looks and nocturnal performance (heck, even daylight performance) is not satisfying to me. And they must pay for not being what I desired. Is my plan realistic? Was Doug's (no holes in this team) and Mark's (everybody will do career norm even though they are old and/or untested) and RRR's (I like this team, I really like it) plan realistic.

 

 

While I think your analogy is really dumb, and I mean no disrespect, it is dumb. There plan was to field the best team they could. The players still have to play and perform. This season falls squarely on those players not playing to their abilities. There is no reason to think that this team could not compete for a playoff spot if they play to their abilities. Will they? Doesn't seem that way. If you "predicted" this start for the Brewers it is because you are a negative nancy boy who will always see faults in the roster no matter how good it is. I'm not sure why any Brewer fan would be upset at signing guys hoping they would play to their "career norms" and actually be contenders. People forget quick how big of a joke this franchise really is and the recent success does not go back very far.

This post flies in the face of the environment BrewerFan fosters. Don't keep posting name-calling & denigrating stuff -- it's not welcome here.

 

Disagree, but don't be a jerk.

 

 

Sorry to Souptown or anyone offended by the "negative nancy boy" comment. Shouldn't have called names about anyone who wants to be negative towards the Brewers "plan." Must've woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

 

It just annoys me that we all think it is so easy to just find all these great young players and field a good team. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing that exact thing. While I agree that you can trade some guys at their peak value that you may not be able to re-sign to help you consistently have options at the younger levels, I just do not agree with the part of getting rid of everyone just to get rid of players for younger, inexpensive players. I feel as though people feel as though it's their money being spent. Braun's contract won't affect the Brewers being able to compete or not and neither did Aram's $10+ million this season. The Brewers have more than enough resources to get the job done. So far, DM looks terrible because for some reason, all that the same time, these players slumped together. It will even out this season. Will it be enough? Not sure. They dug themselves quite a bit hole.

[logan82]

No one is saying finding young players is easy. They are saying we should be making an effort to get younger when the odds are that our older players are not going to play to career norms.

 

Also, things don't even out. You should expect everything from here out to play to expectations. If they were a .500 team to start, we should expect them to play .500 the rest of the way.

[monty57]

No one is saying finding young players is easy. They are saying we should be making an effort to get younger when the odds are that our older players are not going to play to career norms.

 

Agree here. Also, players are under contract, which eventually leads to free agency. If we were still in the era where you'd draft a player and have them for their career, things would be different, but since "team control" is an issue, decisions have to be made. Often the best decision is to trade a player prior to them reaching free agency. I would argue that this should be the usual scenario for smaller market teams, and holding a player to free agency should be the exception which only occurs in somewhat unique circumstances. It shouldn't be seen as a negative to trade a guy away, as you are presumably getting equal value back. The only time it's a negative is when you are forced to "salary dump" players for nothing, which we may be forced into this season.

 

Also, things don't even out. You should expect everything from here out to play to expectations. If they were a .500 team to start, we should expect them to play .500 the rest of the way.

 

I argued "down" on this last year, so I'll argue "up" this year and disagree with you here. We're not flipping a coin, and it's not like a .500 team wins every other game throughout the season. A season is filled with players having hot and cold streaks. Usually this doesn't happen all at once, but for the Brewers over the past few seasons it has. While last year everyone was hot at the same time to start the season, this year everyone is cold to start the season. Just like last year's players had to cool off, at some point this year these guys will heat up, and the team will play better. Last season, the hot start made a ".500-ish" team a few games above .500, and this year I think the cold start will lead to a few games below .500 if no moves are made.

 

This is why I hope the team begins selling sooner rather than later. If they wait until mid-July, the team will probably have shown signs of life, and Attanasio may not be as willing to make the drastic moves that are probably necessary to help the future of the franchise.

[monty57]

Here's today's MLBtraderumors note:

 

Rival executives are anxiously anticipating a Brewers fire sale following the club’s awful 5-17 start to the season, Heyman hears. One exec listed Carlos Gomez, Khris Davis, Jean Segura, Gerardo Parra, Kyle Lohse and Francisco Rodriguez as players who will draw interest, noting that Jonathan Lucroy is probably untouchable, while Matt Garza and Ryan Braun are somewhat overpriced.

 

Seems like the rumors are coming from other GMs and not Melvin/Attanasio. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[wildcat2237]

Here's today's MLBtraderumors note:

 

Rival executives are anxiously anticipating a Brewers fire sale following the club’s awful 5-17 start to the season, Heyman hears. One exec listed Carlos Gomez, Khris Davis, Jean Segura, Gerardo Parra, Kyle Lohse and Francisco Rodriguez as players who will draw interest, noting that Jonathan Lucroy is probably untouchable, while Matt Garza and Ryan Braun are somewhat overpriced.

 

Seems like the rumors are coming from other GMs and not Melvin/Attanasio. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

Talk about restocking the farm system. Wow. Hopefully Attanasio is pissed off enough to trade majority of the team. I cant imagine the haul we could get for the above listed players.

[brewcrewdue80]

Wow that is a rosy picture painted. Rival Executives. Meaning they must be the ones calling in about such players.

 

It is sad that Garza is being listed as somewhat overpriced. I thought the deal in the first place was a bit under what was believed he'd get? And it comes with the 5th year option where it's more team friendly protection than Player friendly money making.

It's nice to see Davis draw interest. He to me is one of the better trade and get value types that I think a team would overpay for the belief there's 20+HRs in his bat because that's special suddenly.

 

Also surprised, gladly, that KRod is listed as drawing interest. 1yr deal would get it. But the team acquiring him has him for a 2nd year and he's not exactly cheap for a RP with 20min of terror to witness. Again, injuries must be at play here. Mention KRod but no Broxton, seems he's of regrettable value.

And where's Lind? Is this Exec from Detroit with this talk? That's my guess since they have a RP need with Nathan going down. Maybe the Mets? Fuerria? suspended, Parnell not looking good at a return. Their SS need.

 

Just kinda surprised the rumor mill swirling already on a sell-off anticipation when its May 1st. One would think it'd still be 3weeks away at earliest.

[SoupTown]

I agree there are more players than those 'listed' that can be / should be traded. Lind should be a great get for somebody. Garza is NOT overpriced. He is a solid get for a team. I am excited to hear Parra mentioned. I dont know why Gomez would be mentioned but not Lucroy. KRod is a good get, honestly. I am surprised Davis is mentioned.

 

I would like to let go every player that does not have possible high ceiling. Garza I keep as we can have him through 2018, I think. And he can flash brilliance. He does have a no hitter, does he not. Maybe I think somebody else. If you dont think Scooter has a high ceiling, you trade him as well.

 

I sure hope Mark does not do a 'part rebuild'. Let the entire team consist of youngsters for the next two years and see who sticks. Heck, we did not even 'find' Davis until RRR was forced to play him. I really love my boyhood team (these Brewers). And we not need be afraid to prune. It is win win. Our vets go to teams who are good and want them. And we get the future. Right now all is terrible. Our team is playing terrible. The players surely dont like it. AND we have no hope for the future. AND we are paying $105 mill payroll. ouch, ouch, ouch, and ouch

[nate82]

I could see a trade with the Astros where the Astros get either Peralta or Garza. Depending on the prospect the Astros want to give up I could see the Brewers getting either Michael Feliz or Vince Velasquez from the Astros. If the Astros wanted Peralta I would target Feliz/Velasquez, Tony Kemp, and A.J. Reed.

 

Power LH 1B in Reed and an under the radar great 2B who is blocked by Altuve. Feliz/Velasquez are possible #1 type starters with Feliz being the better pitcher due to not having as many health questions as Velasquez has. I actually like Feliz more than Appel. I believe Feliz has a higher upside than Appel does as I believe Appel is a #3 starter.

 

For Garza I think the Brewers could get Velasquez and Kemp.

[superfly]

Here's today's MLBtraderumors note:

 

Rival executives are anxiously anticipating a Brewers fire sale following the club’s awful 5-17 start to the season, Heyman hears. One exec listed Carlos Gomez, Khris Davis, Jean Segura, Gerardo Parra, Kyle Lohse and Francisco Rodriguez as players who will draw interest, noting that Jonathan Lucroy is probably untouchable, while Matt Garza and Ryan Braun are somewhat overpriced.

 

Seems like the rumors are coming from other GMs and not Melvin/Attanasio. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

 

Talk about restocking the farm system. Wow. Hopefully Attanasio is pissed off enough to trade majority of the team. I cant imagine the haul we could get for the above listed players.

 

After how "mad" he was at the end of last season, I really would hate to see him in the state of mind you describe. He was so mad last fall he said we'd get answers and solutions for what happened...we still seem to be waiting for those answers and solutions however.

[SoupTown]

I was on board with our management team's assessment of our situation. I mean they convinced themselves, the fans, and me that the team was constructed well. The swan dive of September was a one in a million fluke. Well, management were completely wrong in their assessment. They should admit (at least to themselves) that they completely misjudged. The problem then, is we have a management group that do not know how to evaluate talent, plan for the future, spend money wisely.

 

Now, if this team were travelling really well, then the management group could pat themselves on the back. I posted pre season, if this 25 man did well, then great... as 2015 players are almost all here for 2016. But, we have seen this squad of players is not capable of competing. It is beyond a cold streak. What is odd, is I do not know how to explain how the entire team was HOT at the end of spring training. Then when day 1 of the season came, they ALL became cold (except for Lind). What is with that. Is there some motivation problem in the organisation?

 

Anyway, back to my sad point. Have any of our management team succeeded in their jobs? I was prepared, this one last time, to give them a fresh look. But this management team have produced the same old same old. An old, expensive, declining talent, losing team.

 

And we somehow expect the same group that got us here to get us out. Doug Melvin has been doing this job for decades. What does his CV look like? With Mark, we might as well simply put Boras on the management team and give him GM authority for signing old, washed up, expensive vets. RRR. The players like him. I wonder how they feel now that RRR is throwing them under the bus. Our management's cry that 'we have assembled a good team, but it is up to the players to perform'. So Broxton is choosing to not be his old, cant touch self. ARAM is choosing to not play like a 28 year old ARAM.

 

Management have declared the PLAYERS are the problem. How does the saying go. A poor tradesman blames his tools. Well the players are the tools our tradesman management chose to use. So management blames the tools. Even though management chose these tools.

 

Let us see what happens. Are we going to rebuild properly. Or are we in store for five years of .400 baseball with management blaming the players. And our management team is so thick together - they are the ones who decide if they should have jobs and how much they should be paid. I hardly think they are going to fire themselves. Yet they should.

[wildcat2237]

I posted this in the "Open for Business" thread on the MLB forum, but here is today's MLBTradeRumor snippet. Yesterday it sounded like rival GMs were lining up at Melvin's door. Today it sounds like we're in for a bunch of salary dumps.

 

Brewers Open To Trade Proposals

By Charlie Wilmoth [May 2, 2015 at 1:22pm CDT]

The Brewers have let other teams know they’re willing to listen to trade proposals, ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets. Olney’s note is consistent with recent reporting from CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman and Joel Sherman of the New York Post, who have both written that other teams expect the Brewers will become sellers after their awful start.

 

Of course, 5-18 teams typically don’t have many high-performing players, and many of the players the Brewers will have to offer will be of the buy-low variety. Olney doesn’t say who the Brewers might shop, but Kyle Lohse and Gerardo Parra are both free agents after the season. They are, however, both off to poor starts (although Lohse’s peripherals are still reasonably good, which means other teams might view him somewhat favorably, particularly as a rental). Aramis Ramirez, a free-agent-to-be who plans to retire in the offseason, hasn’t played well, either. Reliever Jonathan Broxton‘s contract and performance make him more of a liability than an asset. At least, however, that contract is short-term — Ryan Braun‘s lengthy and expensive deal should make him difficult to trade. Matt Garza, who is signed through 2017 with a vesting option for 2018, might be a reasonably attractive trade candidate, although his performance in five starts this season hasn’t been stellar.

 

On the other side of the ledger, Neal Cotts is a decent lefty relief option who’s a free agent after the season. Closer Francisco Rodriguez, who is signed through 2016 with a 2017 option, has pitched well so far. Adam Lind, who is off to a terrific start and is signed to a deal with a reasonably priced 2016 option, might be a nice trade piece as well. Carlos Gomez recently returned from the disabled list and would surely fetch a very nice return, although it’s unclear whether the Brewers would want to trade a superstar. Jonathan Lucroy would fit into the same category if he were healthy.

[torts]

I would take prospects from the Pirates, I know they could use one of either Loshe or Garza for their rotation if they think they can contend this year.

[Bombers]

Hopefully Lohse can build off his last two starts. If you take away opening day, his ERA drops a whole point. ~5.5 to ~4.5

 

If he can string together a bunch of quality starts maybe we could entice the Royals to trade one of their pitching prospects. 6 of their top 10 are pitchers. I don't know their farm system well but with the success they are having, adding an arm to help with today may be in their future. Especially if their starters continue to pitch poorly. (They have 1 starter with an ERA under 4.5)

 

I know the Royals are a small market, but just like the Brewers, they have gotten that taste of winning and have the team to go for it again this year.

[bill hAll Star]

The Brewers are smack-dab in the middle of a good stretch for the pitchers to improve their numbers.

 

The Rockies, Cards, Pirates, Reds, Cubs, and Dodgers all have good hitters that tee off against RHP and they crushed the Brewers' staff to bad ERAs early.

 

Now they've had the White Sox who can't hit RHP, a series against a mediocre offense in Citi Field, the slap-hitting Braves (those 11 runs were basically on all singles), the Giants (who are decent at hitting on the road). The Twins' offense has packed some punch this year but it's all been against LHP.

 

Even the Tigers in the recent stretch sport a split of .823 OPS vs. LHP and .750 vs. RHP.

 

Point being, this is the time to send that ERA back down for righties. If one believes that GMs want to see good current-season numbers when trading for guys like Garza and Lohse then I would strongly advise Mark to trade these guys before they head to Coors Field in 3 weeks.

 

Hell, I'd shuffle my rotation so that those two trade chips missed Coors and got to face the punchless Phillies right after it instead.

[Eye Black]

Some nice tidbits from Heyman's article today, including some insight into players and teams that have been discussed on this forum as trade targets (EDIT- Just noticed this info was posted in the Major League forum earlier today, so I apologize for the redundancy):

 

The Braves are disappointed by the play of young catcher Christian Bethancourt (.153, .401 OPS), who was supposed to be their backstop of the future but hasn't even been great defensively. Instead, the never-ending A.J. Pierzynski (.295) continues to get the bulk of the work. Atlanta inquired about the Brewers' Jonathan Lucroy but were told he is unavailable.

 

Rival teams suggest veteran pitchers Matt Garza and Kyle Lohse have limited trade value. If anything, Lohse is generally preferred, for the expiring contract and excellent clubhouse presence ... Jean Segura was said to have been unhappy to go on the disabled list, but rivals are still skeptical whether Milwaukee would trade him, Lucroy (the Braves were among teams to try there) or perhaps even Carlos Gomez, though Milwaukee seems slightly more open to Gomez than the other two, due to his contractual status as a free agent after 2016.

 

Word going around is, the Mets are "very reluctant" to trade any of their arms. The Mets aren't the biggest dealmakers, anyway, but in this case, after seeing Matt Harvey, Steven Matz, Jacob DeGrom and Zack Wheeler all have Tommy John surgery, it's pretty understandable keeping the surplus ... They are stacked with pitchers at both Triple-A and Double-A. One scout said he believes Steven Matz is actually as good or better than Noah Syndergaard. "They could be good for years," says a rival GM ... The Mets and Cubs have been "all over the map" in trade talks, and with their natural fit, they will continue to talk ... The Mets are not rushing into acquiring a shortstop, it seems. They see Wilmer Flores as deserving more time (the error total they see as an "aberration") but beyond that, they are deepest in shortstop in the minors, with Matt Reynolds, Gavin Cecchini their most exciting prospect Amed Rosario, the 19-year-old at Port St. Lucie

[AJOHNSON104]

Isn't it more realistic that any trade of Garza, Lohse, or other starting pitcher from the Brewers occur in July than June? Some reporters have said that they may be in play soon, along with position players. The reality is that Cueto and Hamels, among others, may be available. If I'm looking for a starting pitcher to bolster my playoff run, I'm trying to make a move on those two guys before Lohse and Garza. Those trades will set the market, and if my team doesn't get either of them, then I see if I can get a bargain deal for somone like Lohse.

[JohnBriggs12]

Isn't it more realistic that any trade of Garza, Lohse, or other starting pitcher from the Brewers occur in July than June? Some reporters have said that they may be in play soon, along with position players. The reality is that Cueto and Hamels, among others, may be available. If I'm looking for a starting pitcher to bolster my playoff run, I'm trying to make a move on those two guys before Lohse and Garza. Those trades will set the market, and if my team doesn't get either of them, then I see if I can get a bargain deal for someone like Lohse.

 

I worry more about guys like Dan Haren, Scott Kazmir and Jeff Samadzija. The market for Hamels and Cueto is going to be very limited. Teams looking for starters will hold out until July rather than settle for Lohse or Garza (who would be a pure salary dump).

 

There's plenty of very good starting pitchers out there who figure to be available at a reasonable cost to the buying team. Not good for the Brewers who's best trade chip might be K-Rod.

[MNBrew]

Unless I'm off base, you can't trade a guy you signed as a FA until 6 months after the date you signed him.

 

That said, I don't know if that same time span applies when you're resigning your own FA, and therefore if it applies to K-Rod.

[splitterpfj]

Unless I'm off base, you can't trade a guy you signed as a FA until 6 months after the date you signed him.

 

That said, I don't know if that same time span applies when you're resigning your own FA, and therefore if it applies to K-Rod.

 

I believe it's until June 15, I also believe the player can be traded before that date, but he has to give consent. I may be wrong, but isn't that what just happened with Alberto Callaspo.

[Boomer5]

Isn't it more realistic that any trade of Garza, Lohse, or other starting pitcher from the Brewers occur in July than June? Some reporters have said that they may be in play soon, along with position players. The reality is that Cueto and Hamels, among others, may be available. If I'm looking for a starting pitcher to bolster my playoff run, I'm trying to make a move on those two guys before Lohse and Garza. Those trades will set the market, and if my team doesn't get either of them, then I see if I can get a bargain deal for someone like Lohse.

 

I worry more about guys like Dan Haren, Scott Kazmir and Jeff Samadzija. The market for Hamels and Cueto is going to be very limited. Teams looking for starters will hold out until July rather than settle for Lohse or Garza (who would be a pure salary dump).

 

There's plenty of very good starting pitchers out there who figure to be available at a reasonable cost to the buying team. Not good for the Brewers who's best trade chip might be K-Rod.

 

Kazmir is undergoing a MRI today I think?

[JohnBriggs12]

Regardless, the value of Garza can't be any lower, and it might be wiser to hold on to him through this lost season and maybe into next and hope he rebuilds some value.

[Bombers]

Regardless, the value of Garza can't be any lower, and it might be wiser to hold on to him through this lost season and maybe into next and hope he rebuilds some value.

I agree with this. And who do we really want to be penciled in for both Garza and Lohse next year? I am all for rebuilding but going into next year and saying ok 2 of Cravvy, Jungmann, and Wagner are going to be in the rotation would be getting a little ahead of ourselves with this whole rebuild. I would rather reward 1 player for a good 2015 and strong spring. (Whoever that is) ... Then use next year as another re-tooling year and look to dump Garza then when he has 1.5 years left. (And we hope he has a great first half next year)

[brewcrewdue80]

Regardless, the value of Garza can't be any lower, and it might be wiser to hold on to him through this lost season and maybe into next and hope he rebuilds some value.

I agree with this. And who do we really want to be penciled in for both Garza and Lohse next year? I am all for rebuilding but going into next year and saying ok 2 of Cravvy, Jungmann, and Wagner are going to be in the rotation would be getting a little ahead of ourselves with this whole rebuild. I would rather reward 1 player for a good 2015 and strong spring. (Whoever that is) ... Then use next year as another re-tooling year and look to dump Garza then when he has 1.5 years left. (And we hope he has a great first half next year)

 

A Gomez trade should include an elite pitching prospect to immediately put in the Rotation, think Shelby Miller for 1 year of Jason Heyward.

 

Of course, at this point, I'm not advocating trading Garza certainly this month and he may have to be a deadline only type deal if he improves his trade stock.

 

You can also wait for the offseason and trade Garza/Gomez both then instead. Again, hoping that Garza pitches very well through rest of season and improves his stock.

 

As Lohse is to be a future FA, there are probably going to be a few arms like himself that can be signed for under 13mil a season. The staff won't be strong, but better than that 3 of probables to take over in rotation.

[Raw Biz]

Regardless, the value of Garza can't be any lower, and it might be wiser to hold on to him through this lost season and maybe into next and hope he rebuilds some value.

I agree with this. And who do we really want to be penciled in for both Garza and Lohse next year? I am all for rebuilding but going into next year and saying ok 2 of Cravvy, Jungmann, and Wagner are going to be in the rotation would be getting a little ahead of ourselves with this whole rebuild. I would rather reward 1 player for a good 2015 and strong spring. (Whoever that is) ... Then use next year as another re-tooling year and look to dump Garza then when he has 1.5 years left. (And we hope he has a great first half next year)

 

A Gomez trade should include an elite pitching prospect to immediately put in the Rotation, think Shelby Miller for 1 year of Jason Heyward.

 

 

I disagree. This is the kind of thinking that Melvin/Attanasio have used to get us where we are. A Gomez trade should include an elite pitching prospect, no matter what level he's at. In fact, I would almost prefer someone in AA/AAA. We are going nowhere the next two years, no reason to waste a year or two of control.

 

If we get offered a stud pitching prospect who happens to be MLB ready, that's one thing. But we shouldn't limit ourselves to only seeking out that type of player.

[Oldcity]

Lohse and Garza aren't going to bring back anything valuable, even before they started sucking. They are no longer impact players, and they aren't cheap.

 

The real value will come from trading Lucroy, Gomez and Segura. If the Brewers are serious about wanting to improve their future prospects, they will all be dealt. Something tells me they aren't, though.