Trade with the Mets

[superfly]

The Mets need a CF bad, and look like they are on the cusp of turning themselves from the rebuild phase into contending. They had him once...so would they take the new and improved version of Carlos Gomez again?

 

I'd look into trying to get ahold of Noah Syndergaard or Steve Matz for Gomez and a piece if needed. The Mets are loaded at pitcher between deGrom, Harvey, Niese, Gee, Colon, Wheeler, Syndergaard, Matz, etc and might be willing to part with one.

 

Anybody else thought about this angle? If we could deal Gomez for Syndergaard or Matz, and then get Seager (see the Dodger thread), we just massively upgraded ourselves.

[splitterpfj]

1. The Brewers will not get Seager from the Dodgers. Not only is he one of the best prospects in the game right now, he fills a need there, at third base. Juan Uribe will be gone after this season, and Seager will slide right in.

 

2. Yes, I have thought about Gomez for the Mets. They have arms, they need to make sure they have enough in the lineup to get it done. Carlos has to get back and get hot, but he will. Carlos will have plenty of value, he's a great player, who is signed beyond this season.

[Jenkins5]

They do have arms to trade and unload. I think if they stay in contention and Gomez is back he will net a top pitching prospect. Gomez's stock will never be higher than at the break if he is playing like himself. His cheap contract for 1 1/2 years is pretty great leverage.

 

I'd love to see it centered around Syndergaard. Matz would work and is more realistic, lord knows we could use a lefty...

 

If we plan on trading Lucroy, I'd try to pry away Plawecki as well. Then get a high upside, boom or bust, young arm as we did with Diplan

 

I personally think a

Gomez and PTBNL (one of our quality AA/AAA pitchers such as Tyler Wagner)

 

for

 

Syndergaard, Plawecki, Molina, with Beccara or Meisner as PTBNL

 

Get a frontline guy, Lucroy's replacement for 2016, a talented young arm in Molina.

 

For the last throw in I was between 2 options, Then I think Beccura is a young late blooming Gomez who has all the talent in the world but hasn't figured it out. Meisner has a looong body and ability to become a very good pitcher in future. We need arm talents bad.

 

Maybe I am over valuing Gomez a little bit but if he is in All-Star form, we have leverage, teams will have to pay high.

 

Seager can be had at the right price but I doubt that is Lucroy. They will most likely look for an Ace at the break from him if he is going anywhere.

[bill hAll Star]

The Mets may stick with Lagares in CF, who is defensively equal or better than Gomez. Offensively, not so much.

 

I don't think it's impossible that the Mets consider it but right now they may be happy. Maybe later in the year excitement to be a playoff contender may set in.

 

I think Plawecki's bat looks OK but I'm not sure I'm jumping on him just yet. He was a ranked prospect but he was only OPSing .800 (at best) in the PCL. That's decent for a catcher but that's not stud status. Maybe I'm looking for too much in a catcher.

[dlk9s]

In his video blog, Buster Olney speculated that Segura to the Mets could be a possibility. He emphasized that he is only speculating, but he spoke with a talent evaluator who floated the idea. Basically, the Mets have a need at SS and while they have a guy they like deep in the minors, Segura could fill the need for a couple years. Mets have the young arms to trade, so it could work.

 

Again, Olney said he was just speculating, that there is nothing concrete here.

[reillymcshane]

Segura to the Mets could start with right handed pitcher Marcos Molina. 1.78 ERA at low A ball last year - awesome walk and K rates (18BB, 91K in 76 IP). He's 6"3', kind of skinny, but should grow into his frame more. He just turned 20 last month. He reportedly reaches the mid-90s on his pitches.

[brewcrewdue80]

That SS they have deep in the Minors would be Gavin Cecchini in AA.

 

I like the Mets top half of prospects even Cecchini sounds appealing.

 

There is not a dream of getting Noah Syndergaard in a trade. I don't like Catcher prospects Plawicki would be the next in line.

The Mets then have a LHP by the name of Steven Matz who sounds pretty perfect for the team. Like Really perfect get for in a trade. Because he's in AAA, and you figure Lohse will be traded plus maybe Garza leaving 2 SP holes to fill(Thornburg is an immediate guess) But Matz would be that Prospect acquired you run out from the All-Star break giving ticket holders a reason to show up later in the season to check him out.

 

Then based on overall production to date, do the Brewers get Dominick Smith a Lefty 1b of the future? If his bat progresses. Considering the Lucas Duda era and the start of Smith, it would likely be a good time to grab him in trade before he makes progression to a much higher value.

 

Now, I'd dream to get a Michael Conforto who seems of the Clint Coulter type offensive potential. Don't know what we'd do with 2 of them likely getting to the Majors on the same timeline but the batting upside would be great.

 

There's Brandon Nimmo a solid sounding OF better than Tyrone Taylor/Michael Redd profile by a little bit. He'd maybe pave the way for the big Carlos Gomez trade.

 

One would wonder though is Matz for Segura plus Nimmo or Conforto too much a price? Vs Matz+Smith being more in line?

[reillymcshane]

 

One would wonder though is Matz for Segura plus Nimmo or Conforto too much a price? Vs Matz+Smith being more in line?

Matz is a top 50 rated prospect, and has started off well at AAA. Segura doesn't get him - much less adding in Nimmo or Conforto - both of who generally rank in the 60-90ish range on the prospect lists.

 

Matz would be great, but it'll need more than Segura.

[monty57]

If Melvin is offered a top 50 prospect for Segura, he'd better jump quickly. Segura has talent but I don't know if he'll ever put it together, we have Sardinas and Arcia knocking on the door, and Segura has already refused a contract extension, so he's probably not someone we'll see as a "core" player for the long-term. MLB-ready stud LHP with six years of cheap team control for Segura... yes, please.

[brewcrewdue80]

 

One would wonder though is Matz for Segura plus Nimmo or Conforto too much a price? Vs Matz+Smith being more in line?

Matz is a top 50 rated prospect, and has started off well at AAA. Segura doesn't get him - much less adding in Nimmo or Conforto - both of who generally rank in the 60-90ish range on the prospect lists.

 

Matz would be great, but it'll need more than Segura.

 

So Matz around 50 can't be had for Segura, but Segura would be good enough to get around a #50 Renfroe or around 50 Hedges?

 

Taken from the Optimism thread:

Since the start of 2013, Jean Segura ranks among qualified National League Shortstops in several categories: Batting Average (1st, .272), Stolen Bases (1st, 67) Hits (3rd, 316), Singles (1st, 245), Triples (2nd, 16), Runs (3rd, 142)

 

That's a solid selling point.

 

Matz while good stats, has had TJ once and reads previously other ailments that held him back. There's logic there with all the SP the Mets have that he could be the lameduck future with a 2nd TJ ever happening. A draftee from 2009 who didn't make an appearance til 2012. So the TJ would have happened in 2011 or earlier. What's the blowout year worried for TJ to happen again? 6years? For the Mets to get their SS situation figured out at a cheap value that's gotta be worth something.

Matz has 12BB in 22ip so theres some control concerns. Someone made mention of Marcus Molina as the SP to acquire. Younger by 3 years. Reads as having much the same upside as Matz. Only doesn't come with prospect ranking. If you're the Mets who would you rather part with? Keep in mind, the Mets are group with Harvey, DeGrom, Colon, Gee, Niese while having Zach Wheeler on DL due to TJ and Noah Syndergaard in the waiting. That's 7 legit SPs Matz being in AAA makes 8. Just going to waste him as a RP? Meanwhile the team trots out a AAAA SS/3b while Wright is out. Have a 30yr old in Murphy playing 2b who's a FA to be and you're team is 15-6 leading the NL East playing a quality Bat for SS in Wilmer Flores who grade below avg for his range. How many runs defensively will that cost them at that prime position? They are without Wright, withough D'Anaud key offensive contributors, with a solid pitching staff that will keep games low scoring. Just makes some sense to want a better SS defender with the upside offensively Segura has to keep pace from this start.

 

And saying Segura is available for trade, doesn't mean he's got to July 31st with this team. If a club wants him they'll have to pay better value in trade. And still Segura was a top 50 prospect himself. He's proven he's a capable ML SS defensively. He's not a question mark like prospects are. That to me would mean he's worthy of a top 50 prospect for sure in commanding price. And every week he keeps his OPS hovering around .700 his value goes higher.

[MrTPlush]

Heck send Gomez and Segura to the Mets...shape a deal around Syndergaard.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think Segura's enough as the main piece to get Matz. You can always add a lower level arm to the deal if need be or throw in Bradley. I don't see the Brewers dealing Segura for Marcos Molina. Brewers have always looked to get near major league ready players in return. Molina might be a nice prospect and have a fairly high ceiling but he's a long way from the majors and those guys have a significant flame out rate. They cannot afford to deal Segura and get nothing back. They got Segura that way. Matz' injury history shouldn't be too much of a concern. He threw 140 innings in 2014.

 

Matz for Segura makes a ton of sense. Brewers could us a lefty in their rotation and he's about major league ready now but blocked in NY.

[reillymcshane]

 

One would wonder though is Matz for Segura plus Nimmo or Conforto too much a price? Vs Matz+Smith being more in line?

Matz is a top 50 rated prospect, and has started off well at AAA. Segura doesn't get him - much less adding in Nimmo or Conforto - both of who generally rank in the 60-90ish range on the prospect lists.

 

Matz would be great, but it'll need more than Segura.

 

So Matz around 50 can't be had for Segura, but Segura would be good enough to get around a #50 Renfroe or around 50 Hedges?

 

I don't think many people think that we could get Hedges or Renfroe for Segura.

 

Although Hedges really brings out strong opinions, so if the Pads really don't like him, perhaps that's possible.

[reillymcshane]

With Segura, I just don't see anything special. His great 1/2 season to start 2013 is offset by very mediocre to bad play through last season. Sure he looks better this year, but that's hard after last season. And it's not like he's tearing things up. He's got a .303 OBP right now, including only 2 walks all season. He's solid defensively, but no whiz. He's shown almost no growth as a player since he came up.

 

On the flip side, he can really be an exciting player. And he's only 25, so there's time to improve.

 

Perhaps he's enough for Matz, but I doubt it. I like Matz's upside a lot. He's at AAA this year, so he could easily be ready in the next year or two, even with some adjustment time. He's also been successful at every level of baseball (he has a lifetime 2.30 ERA in the minors, striking out more than a batter per inning, keeps his walks down - 3.1 per 9 IP - and limits HRs - only 8 in 300 IP).

 

The one thing to always remember is that it can't hurt to ask for a guy like Matz. Maybe the Mets value Segura more than I do.

 

With Jean, we can also wait him out a bit. If he catches fire and is sitting with a .300 BA come June, then people will no doubt see him in a lot better light.

[monty57]

So Matz around 50 can't be had for Segura, but Segura would be good enough to get around a #50 Renfroe or around 50 Hedges?

 

Segura is interesting in that the potential is there, and has been shown (albeit for a brief period) at the major league level. Some GM would probably jump and offer a really good prospect for him. If so, then I think Melvin should take the deal because we have Sardinas who is MLB ready and Arcia who will be MLB ready very soon (if he's not already).

 

If we can't get a top guy for Segura, then we shouldn't trade him just to trade him. He's cheap with team control, and even if we're rebuilding he could still be a Brewer for a year or two before he's flipped. But if we can get a really good prospect back, we should make the deal.

[SRB]

I don't know a lot about Matz, but a prospect in that range seems like a fair starting point for 3.75 seasons of Segura. Segura was a similarly ranked prospect and has dramatically increased his value by showing he can hit major league pitching. Even with his mediocre 2014, a mediocre MLB shortstop is still valuable.

 

I would want Matz plus another flier or two, at an absolute minimum.

 

I feel like you guys are really undervaluing the (few) good trade pieces we actually have. Lohse and A-Ram are the kind of guys who will only bring back marginal prospects. Segura has legit value.

[reillymcshane]

If Segura keeps getting four hit games like today he's going to get someone to overpay (or maybe just pay what's fair, if my assessment is wrong). No matter, keep it up, Jean. You either make this club better, or increase your trade value.

[paul253]

After seeing Synderggard pitch today I'll say yes please to any trade involving him. I'm not sure if he's enough straight up for Gomez but he looks like he's got a ton of potential. Definitely the type of player Milwaukee should be looking for.

[TheCrew07]

Why on earth would the Mets give up any of their awesome young pitching? I realize organizations make those kind of decisions all the time but I just can't fathom giving up the most valuable commodity in baseball for much of anything.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why on earth would the Mets give up any of their awesome young pitching? I realize organizations make those kind of decisions all the time but I just can't fathom giving up the most valuable commodity in baseball for much of anything.

 

Because they simply don't have a very potent lineup (the explosion vs. the Brewers notwithstanding) and if they think they can win it this year, they need help offensively. Theo Epstein has argued that in today's game where bullpens are full of guys throwing in the high 90's and rotations are pretty deep overall, premier everyday players are more valuable and actually harder to find.

[TheCrew07]

I would agree that it's pretty easy to find averagish pitching, the Brewers have been doing that for years. It is not so easy to find cost controlled impact pitching which is what they have, all of their young pitchers are better than anyone on the Brewers staff. I just have a very difficult time justifying giving up a rotation like the Braves had in the 90s for one bat, regardless of current ability, who's likely moved through the peak of his career.

 

A team would basically have to be desperate to give up that kind of MLB ready talent, and while I realize and agree with the notion that baseball and fans are mostly impatient living in the moment, I don't see the Mets as a team that's going to try and spend their way to success. They've been there and done that to disastrous results. On the individual side Harvey is just back from TJ surgery, Wheeler just went under the knife, and DeGrom had TJ surgery before getting up to the majors. I would agree that maybe you part Noah Syndergaard if everyone else is healthy as you see yourself in the position of having an embarrassment of riches, but they haven't been and currently aren't healthy. Harvey is already 26 and DeGrom is 27, is not like we're talking about a bunch of 21 and 22 year old players either.

 

If you were the GM would you keep 42 year old Bartolo Colon and trade 22 year old Noah Syndergaard just to acquire Carlos Gomez? The Mets aren't a good offensive team, only slightly better than the Brewers at 12th in OPS, but runs prevented are just as, maybe more important that runs scored. If you have a chance to be the best rotation in the NL, maybe the best 1-2-3 in baseball moving forward, why would you give up that tremendous advantage up to move up 1 or 2 slots in team OPS? I don't see how moving closer to the middle is a net gain? You're falling back to middle pitching wise and moving up from a hitting perspective, but would you be better off as a team?

[reillymcshane]

 

If you were the GM would you keep 42 year old Bartolo Colon and trade 22 year old Noah Syndergaard just to acquire Carlos Gomez?

Their GM did give $21M and a 1st round draft pick to get a 36 year old Mike Cuddyer.

 

That aside, the Mets are doing fine with pitching and defense. Wright and D'Arnaud are due back soon, perhaps the aforementioned Cuddyer starts hitting.

[bill hAll Star]

A 36-year-old Michael Cuddyer playing in Coors Field no-less. Obviously, they may have seen the Coors inflation and maybe tried to take it for what it is, but you can subtract about 10 HR going from Coors to Citi field and also an underrated factor is subtracting probably at least 30-60 batting average points not playing in Coors.

 

For anyone that cares/follows the "batting title chase" anymore (not for me), you'll love anyone hitting at Coors. So much room in that outfield, most .275 career guys can put up a nice .315 there.

[MrTPlush]

I could see a trade centered around Matz. Sure you don't get that super elite prospect, but you get a lot more chances to hit some MLB talent.

[paul253]

In order to get something you have to give something up. Gomez is an excellent player and he's signed through next year too. Other than Syndergaard the Mets still have 5 other starters with ERAs under 4 (I'm assuming one is injured right now?) Also, their starting CF has an OPS of .623. Gomez is struggling big time right now and his OPS is still .746. His defense is also Gold Glove caliber. He'd be a huge upgrade to the Mets lineup. I am all for moving Gomez. I actually think it's overdue. But don't settle for a couple of B prospects. If I'm trading Gomez to the Mets I'm getting Syndergaard back.