Brewers NEW Core

[Jenkins5]

With all the talk of rebuilding, I think it important we discuss who is the new "core" or the Milwaukee Brewers? In team now or in the farm system, who is the future and the untouchables. During a true tear down and rebuild, you have to be willing to make difficult trades as long as you deem a player is not in the long term future plans of the team.

 

To me personally the untouchable core to build our future around is

 

Starting Pitchers

Jimmy Nelson

Wily Peralta

 

RP

Will Smith

Jermey Jeffress

Corey Knuebel

 

Position

*Jean Sergura

(If they plan to move him to 2B or maybe even 3b)

 

Honestly our best leverage to bring in talent is Lucroy and Gomez due to them being cheap All-Stars with time left on contract. Braun is not really in the long term future plans if he can get hot and bring value u back to us. Khris Davis and Scooter are place holders, I don't think they are our best options to build around. Most of our pen I don't mind us moving on from if we can get value for.

 

In our system our future Core of most untouchable has to be:

Orlando Arcia

Clint Coulter

Tyrone Taylor

Taylor Williams

Monte Harrison

Devin Williams

Kodi Medories

Jake Gatewood

Gilbert Lara

 

Luis Sardinas if they don't keep segura to play 2B

 

What you guys think?

[And That]

I don't think anyone is/should be untouchable. I really like Nelson and Peralta, but if someone else blew the Brewers away with a great deal, they should be traded.

 

To your point, I really don't think this team has a core of guys to build around. At least in the big leagues. Gomez and Lucroy are playing their 29 year old seasons and both should probably be traded just for the prospect value the Brewers would get in return. Braun is 31, though untradeable. I am extremely dubious about Segura's long term prospects. Gennett and David are both "meh" players. Nelson/Peralta are definitely potential long term solutions for depth in the rotation, but is either good enough to anchor a rotation? I tend to doubt it.

 

I think it's painfully obvious that the Brewers need to tear down and retool.

[JJHardy7]

I think it's painfully obvious that the Brewers need to tear down and retool.

 

I really respect your opinion so it makes reading this so painful. I agree with it, but it still hurts to look back a few years ago and think of how much promise this organization had. Back to the drawing board...

[Jenkins5]

Yeah major leagues there isn't much to work with and most guys on the farm aren't can't miss guys.... At least not yet. Jimmy and Wily are solid building blocks for the rotation during the rebuild. Neither are can miss Aces but both are very nice #2-#3 type guys for us. We have no frontline arms in the minors as of right now at least that has experience to generate hype. Hopefully Medorios develops into that guy. I see both Williams topping out where Peralta and Nelson will/are. I don't see an Ace yet in the making anywhere. I think for right price you can trade Smith, Jeffress, Knuebel but they are a young solid cheap core of back end of bullpen guys.

 

In all honesty Coulter and Arcia are the only two guys right now who are showing that they are a big part of future. I feel by seasons end, both could be top 50 prospects. Everyone else is just too young to gage. Guys like Taylor and Sardinas are solid guys who I think can contribute but not that top level, franchise type players I think Arcia and Coulter can be

[trwi7]

I don't think anyone is/should be untouchable. I really like Nelson and Peralta, but if someone else blew the Brewers away with a great deal, they should be traded.

 

I agree with this and I would also never put a reliever, much less three in an untouchable core.

[reillymcshane]

YoungGeezy, I think you probably hit things pretty well. You identified most of the key players. At this point, you just have to let them move through the minor league system and see who really emerges. So many of them are really young, so it's hard to predict who is going to pan out.

 

Of our current players, like you said, Davis and Scooter are just guys. You hope they continue to improve, but I wouldn't be shocked if either ended up washing out. I don't see big upsides in either. Segura has potential to be better than average - but again, time will tell. For the time being, let's give him and Scooter and Davis a chance to produce. Jerking them around will do little to help us out.

 

Like And That said, Braun is untradeable, so we are stuck with him. And we probably need to look to deal Gomez and Lucroy. If you can add 4-6 quality prospects to the list you have, it really helps the system. Add in some high draft picks in the next few years, and a good core of players might emerge in a few years.

 

And we can't forget to keep producing players like Davis and Scooter - maybe they won't be stars, but they can contribute. There's a lot of guys at the AAA and AA level who can help out in future - Goforth, Wagner, Cravy, Strong, Hall, etc. Filling a 5th start role or a 4th reliever role at 500K instead of $5 million is important to this franchise.

[paul253]

I'd actually put Peralta in the "untouchable" category. He's the only one I'd put there. You build around young, controllable pitching and that it what Peralta is. I think Nelson is close too. Not necessarily untouchable but I don't really know what you'd expect to get for him. His value to you is much higher than his trade value right now.

 

If I am building for the future this is what I do:

 

1) Trade Gomez

2) Trade Lucroy

3) Trade Lohse

4) Trade any reliever that can bring something back other than Will Smith

 

In all the trades target starting pitching and maybe a young catcher, first basemen and third basemen.

 

I'd stick with Jason Rogers at 1b and try Segura at 3b to see if he can cut it. Open up SS for Arcia when he's ready, probably use Sardinas there until that point. I see no reason to move Braun. He not worth anywhere near what he once was and you'd end up paying a ton of his salary anyway. Keep him there at least until Coulter is ready, which won't be til 2018 or so anyway. Use Maldonado at C until you can find a young replacement. Let Thornburg start in place of Lohse.

 

This team would not be a good team but they're not good now anyway so what difference does it make.

[monty57]

Lots of good comments, so I'll just add:

 

-Most of our farmhands should be kind of "untouchable" in that we shouldn't be trading prospects for MLB help. Unless it's an add on to a Gomez or Lucroy trade, our minor leaguers should just be held on to and allowed to play to see who pans out. We just need to find ways to add to the talent pool we have.

 

-Gomez and Lucroy should be traded, as they are the best way to bring back talent for the future. Gomez will be too expensive for us to extend, and Lucroy's everyday play will put enough wear-and-tear on his body that I don't want to extend him into his mid-to-late 30's.

 

-I wouldn't actively look to trade Nelson or Peralta. Both are young and have team control. I'd be willing to trade them if someone made a big enough offer, but I wouldn't actively look to trade them. In fact, I'd consider offering extensions (like Lucroy of Braun's first deal) since they're good and in their pre-arby years. We don't have a lot of talent worth these extensions, but Nelson and Peralta probably are worth it, even in rebuild years.

 

-Segura should be traded at some point if he builds his value back up. We have young talent behind him, and he has been unwilling to sign an extension, so he's expendable. The question is whether he'll rebuild his value and when is the best time to trade him. Arcia looks to be the future at SS, but Sardinas is also talented. Hopefully one or both of them will be part of the next good Brewer teams.

 

-Davis and Gennett are nice "placeholders." Keep them until either a prospect forces his way onto the roster, or they're nearing the end of team control, and then hope to get some prospects back in trade.

 

So, to the question of who is the "new core," I'd say a core isn't as important during a rebuild (if we rebuild), but will be very important when we eventually come out on the other side of the rebuild. For now, Nelson and Peralta can be something of a core, as having two decent pitchers at the top of the rotation for a few years will at least give the fans something to cheer for. Sardinas and Arcia are close enough to the majors to have some hope that one or both could be long-term answers in the middle infield. And of course we'll have Braun for a long time. Hard to say more, since most of the rest of our hope lies in the low minors, so hopefully we get a lot of talent back in trade, and continue to target "high upside" in future drafts and international signings.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Oh man what a sorry state this team is in. Funny how a year ago the Brewers had way better long term prospects than the Bucks did. Now it's the opposite. Bucks have a bright future and the Brewers....well....ugh

 

I hoped that this team would be good one last time and make the run this year that for most of last year they looked like they were going to make. Barring a drastic turnaround, that ain't going to happen. Blow this sucker up and trade everyone. Might as well pull an Astros style rebuild and try our luck again in a few years. Consecutive losing seasons is inevitable for this franchise. At least with a rebuild they'll be losing but with optimism for the future. Staying the course is going to lead to losing seasons but with a trash farm system.

 

Gomez and Lucroy are the best trade chips this team has. If Braun ever turns it around ship him out of here too.

[logan82]

Oh man what a sorry state this team is in. Funny how a year ago the Brewers had way better long term prospects than the Bucks did. Now it's the opposite. Bucks have a bright future and the Brewers....well....ugh

 

I hoped that this team would be good one last time and make the run this year that for most of last year they looked like they were going to make. Barring a drastic turnaround, that ain't going to happen. Blow this sucker up and trade everyone. Might as well pull an Astros style rebuild and try our luck again in a few years. Consecutive losing seasons is inevitable for this franchise. At least with a rebuild they'll be losing but with optimism for the future. Staying the course is going to lead to losing seasons but with a trash farm system.

 

Gomez and Lucroy are the best trade chips this team has. If Braun ever turns it around ship him out of here too.

How do you figure that? A year ago the Brewers had an abysmal minor league system and an aging major league roster. I think they are in a better position right now than they were a year ago.

[clancyphile]

I think the core is as follows:

Braun (OF/3B/1B?)

[*]Mark my words, I think this year will be kinda like what Derrick Rose had with the Bulls this past NBA season - rough as he regains his mechanics and gets his confidence back, but he'll come back to close to the 2007-2012 form. If that is the case, he is part of the team's core, no question about it.

Segura (SS/2B)

Lucroy (C/1B)

Gomez (CF)

Peralta

Nelson

Thornburg

Jeffress

Smith

 

On the major-league roster, that's it. Maybe keep Fiers around (he's cheap, and servicable), and a couple of the position players (Khris Davis, Gennett), but beyond that... there's not much.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Oh man what a sorry state this team is in. Funny how a year ago the Brewers had way better long term prospects than the Bucks did. Now it's the opposite. Bucks have a bright future and the Brewers....well....ugh

 

I hoped that this team would be good one last time and make the run this year that for most of last year they looked like they were going to make. Barring a drastic turnaround, that ain't going to happen. Blow this sucker up and trade everyone. Might as well pull an Astros style rebuild and try our luck again in a few years. Consecutive losing seasons is inevitable for this franchise. At least with a rebuild they'll be losing but with optimism for the future. Staying the course is going to lead to losing seasons but with a trash farm system.

 

Gomez and Lucroy are the best trade chips this team has. If Braun ever turns it around ship him out of here too.

How do you figure that? A year ago the Brewers had an abysmal minor league system and an aging major league roster. I think they are in a better position right now than they were a year ago.

 

For the most part they're in the same spot, but at least last year the aging roster was better than this year's sorry version. Bucks last season were just a complete disaster. This year everything has changed. Their future is exciting. The Brewers? Major league roster is old and sh!tty. The farm system sucks. No young bucks to get excited about.

[SRB]

I don't view Peralta as a core player. He is entering his third full season now and I just don't see the untapped upside. We would be wise to trade him while he still has a lot of value rather than waiting for a potential that never comes like with Gallardo.

 

Nelson is the only guy on the major league roster that I am excited about, if his new pitch and potential breakout are for real. Braun will be here his entire career (most likely a fixture at 1B sooner or later), and a Segura rebound would be huge too.

[Jenkins5]

I strongly disagree there is no one to be excited about, Arcia will be 20 all season in AA and is emerging as a top SS prospect in all of baseball. Defense of Alcides with a better bat IMO. Not to mention he walks and hates to strikeout

 

Coulter is a monster bat in the making potentially. 21 and continuing to grow as a hitter. He walks at a good share, has monster power. Driving balls out in left at space coast is no easy task and he is making it seem easy.

 

Kodi's debut he was on his way to a no no and outside of 1-2 down innings he's been electric.

 

The name Gilbert Lara just sounds like Miguel Cabrera to me....

 

There is plenty to be excited for, just not knocking on door yet or to soon outside of a few

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

I strongly disagree there is no one to be excited about, Arcia will be 20 all season in AA and is emerging as a top SS prospect in all of baseball. Defense of Alcides with a better bat IMO. Not to mention he walks and hates to strikeout

 

Coulter is a monster bat in the making potentially. 21 and continuing to grow as a hitter. He walks at a good share, has monster power. Driving balls out in left at space coast is no easy task and he is making it seem easy.

 

Kodi's debut he was on his way to a no no and outside of 1-2 down innings he's been electric.

 

The name Gilbert Lara just sounds like Miguel Cabrera to me....

 

There is plenty to be excited for, just not knocking on door yet or to soon outside of a few

I've seen lots of hyped up prospects flame out. I'm not saying that the same will happen to the Brewers prospects, but it wouldn't surprise. It's hard for me to get excited about MLB prospects since it takes them forever to develop, if they develop at all. Arcia, Lara, Medeiros, and Coulter could tear up the minors but flop when they get to Milwaukee. Who the heck even knows how much longer it'll take them to arrive in Milwaukee. I guess it's just easier to get excited about football and basketball prospects since it's a shorter road to being a contributing regular on the roster.

[trwi7]

I've seen lots of hyped up prospects flame out. I'm not saying that the same will happen to the Brewers prospects, but it wouldn't surprise. It's hard for me to get excited about MLB prospects since it takes them forever to develop, if they develop at all. Arcia, Lara, Medeiros, and Coulter could tear up the minors but flop when they get to Milwaukee. Who the heck even knows how much longer it'll take them to arrive in Milwaukee. I guess it's just easier to get excited about football and basketball prospects since it's a shorter road to being a contributing regular on the roster.

 

This sounds like something Attanasio would say.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

I've seen lots of hyped up prospects flame out. I'm not saying that the same will happen to the Brewers prospects, but it wouldn't surprise. It's hard for me to get excited about MLB prospects since it takes them forever to develop, if they develop at all. Arcia, Lara, Medeiros, and Coulter could tear up the minors but flop when they get to Milwaukee. Who the heck even knows how much longer it'll take them to arrive in Milwaukee. I guess it's just easier to get excited about football and basketball prospects since it's a shorter road to being a contributing regular on the roster.

 

This sounds like something Attanasio would say.

And with the Brewers poor track record of developing prospects, it's not that crazy. Brewers aren't the Cardinals. Who is the last good pitcher they developed besides Gallardo and Sheets? I can't remember the last time the Brewers developed a hitter that was patient, made good contact, and knew what pitch recognition was. Most of this team's hitter are incredibly greedy and impatient. Even the best hitter the Brewers have developed is annoyingly impatient and greedy. Braun still hacks away at everything low. I can't count the number of times I've seen him selfishly swing for the fences instead of trying to put the ball in play with men on base. Just throw a slider low and away and you'll get Braun to hack away. There's a reason why the Cardinals kick the Brewers butt just about every time. They know what they're doing. MLB prospects are already a crapshoot. Factor in a mediocre franchise like the Brewers being tasked with developing them and the odds of those prospects turning into useful stars decreases. Until Melvin and his cronies are gone, things will remain the same.

[Jenkins5]

Brewers are in the situation they have been in not because they can't develop offensive talent cause they have. Issue is like you said, they miss so much on pitchers it's unreal. They simply can't develop them. Killed me to shallow losing Odorizzi, he may be the best pitcher he have had in our system in last decade.... Not saying much... Honestly, if we were to make a top 5 list over the past 15 years of pitchers developed by use it'd be

1) Sheets

2) Gallardo

 

Then...

Manny Parra? if we wouldn't have lost his head and confidence he could have been great, however, he never overcame the mental aspect.

5yr 172g/74gs 513ip 26-33 5.12era/4.34fip

 

Zack Braddock- could never master mental aspect as well however, sadly being bi-polar makes that difficult.

2yrs 71g 51ip 1-3 4.41era/ 3.51 fip 30/59

 

Carlos Villanueva

5yrs 240g 27gs 425ip 20-24 4.34 era/4.43 fip 151bb/381k

 

Dana Eveland

36 games 5 starts 1-4 in 59.1ip 6.98 era /4.56 fip 33bb/55k

 

Jorge De la Rosa

3yrs 61g/8gs 95.1ip 6.23era/4.64fip 74bb/78k

 

Ben Hendrickson

2yrs 10g/9gs 58.1 ip 1-10 7.41 ip/4.83fip 29bb/37k

 

Nick Neugebauer

2 yrs 14gs 61.1ip 4.99era/ 5.86fip 50bb/58k

 

Then Peralta, Jeffress, Nelson, Fiers

[SRB]

I don't view Peralta as a core player. He is entering his third full season now and I just don't see the untapped upside. We would be wise to trade him while he still has a lot of value rather than waiting for a potential that never comes like with Gallardo.

 

Nelson is the only guy on the major league roster that I am excited about, if his new pitch and potential breakout are for real. Braun will be here his entire career (most likely a fixture at 1B sooner or later), and a Segura rebound would be huge too.

 

[paul253]

The only saving grace that I have in this organization is that they seem to have finally figured out that they need to draft for upside. Last year's draft was something else. Even picks like Stokes and Burkhalter were improvements over the typical college arm who profiles as a reliever at best but will most likely flame out in AA. And the signing of Lara was a good sign too. But other than that there is nothing. Until they actually move towards rebuilding, and that means trading some combo of Gomez/Lohse/Garza/Lucroy, I have no confidence anyone in this organization has the brains to get the ship turned in the right direction. Their track record is such that I just have zero confidence that they will do what's necessary.

 

Someone nailed it earlier when they said that the Brewer's team is just like Bucks from a few years ago. The Bucks finally decided to stop throwing out a veteran laden .500ish team and now they are a team that people are actually excited about. That is exactly what the Brewers need to do. Unfortunately in baseball in takes much much longer.

[SomewhereInTime]

I'm of the idea that this will be an extensive rebuild. For a small market team Mark A has made an attempt to extend the window created with the last rebuild, overall they've missed the ultimate goal, but that's major professional sports, not every team will win it all in their current window of going for it. They've still had a number of successful seasons with 5 winning seasons 2 post season appearences, one NLCS appearence and one division title. The memories were great and I'm glad they went for it when they had the pieces to compete for a WS. But when a small market team like Milwaukee misses on the number of recent drafts that they've missed on and isn't able to sign top free agents to fill holes every season, you get what we have right now.

 

I think it's time for an extensive rebuild, starting with the GM and the entire staff. I don't think there is a "core" to this team or any current pieces that they will build around (on the current 25 man roster). That doesn't mean that I think literally all 25 should be traded this season but everyone's for sale more or less.

 

Looking at the current roster:

 

Lucroy can be moved at the deadline and can net a nice prospect package in return as he's in his prime and still cheap and under contract for the immediate future. Maldonado can take over as the starter for the short term.

 

Lind is still healthy and is producing, he can be moved before one or both of those two aren't currently the case any more.

 

Scooter doesn't have any real value right now, he's the type of cheap starter worth keeping around for a few years, maybe he develops, maybe not

 

Segura is young and cheap, might be worth keeping around to see if his value increases over the rest of the season and next year.

 

Ramirez may be done, but if he heats up as the season progresses like he's done in the past he could net a prospect or two to a contender at the deadline

 

Davis (same thoughts as I have on Scooter)

 

Gomez should be moved at the deadline and could net a nice return

 

Braun is probably untradeable with his contract, all you can do is hold onto him for a while and hope he comes close to regaining his past form

 

Parra's value is likely negligible, he can be kept as the starter in CF for the rest of the season after Gomez is traded.

 

The rest of the positional players have little to no value and can be fill ins after some of the above mentioned have been traded.

 

In the rotation

 

Lohse can hopefully be moved at the deadline to a contender if he regains form

 

Garza will probably be tough to trade without eating some dead money, probably best to hold onto him

 

Peralta and Nelson are young and cheap and may gain some value over the next couple seasons, may be best to hold onto both for a little while to really see what we have but as always be listening to offers.

 

Fiers kind of falls into the same category but he isn't young, may not be a ton of value there.

 

In the pen K-Rod could be moved if his numbers are solid heading into the deadline, if not next year is an option too. Teams overpay for relief help at the deadline. Same could be true for Broxton. Not much else in the pen would probably be moved this season.

 

Year 1 of the rebuild will look ugly but now is the time to start laying the foundation for the future core of the Brewers.

[Jenkins5]

Sell off this season, be bottom feeders, receive Riley Pint for your suffering....sounds good to me. Milwaukee is the Brew city, We are the Brewers, and we play at Miller Park, and we get to build our franchise around a kid with the last name Pint...seems like a perfect fit!

 

Biggest thing we need is a future ace for Gomez or Lucroy and we can't afford to miss. Hopefully get a great arm for both. I think if we can get two big arms to go with Jimmy and Wily, that is a good start.

[SRB]

Biggest thing we need is a future ace for Gomez or Lucroy and we can't afford to miss. Hopefully get a great arm for both. I think if we can get two big arms to go with Jimmy and Wily, that is a good start.

 

Lucroy for Julio Urias.

[brewcrewdue80]

New core. The new core has failed. Point blank. There isn't one. The Wily Peralta era hasn't taken shape, nor Tyler Thornburg. Scooter Gennett, Khris Davis arent appearing to be part of the new core. This 25man roster is a failure. There isn't a core to build around except Jimmy Nelson. That's it. Peralta is entering Arb controlled years, you can't build a core around that when he's going to be gone due to what his pay commands are after 3years. Lucroy is too old. Will Smith may be an addition but he's a Lefty RP who has above avg splits vs Leftys and below avg vs righties. Again, can you build around him for 3more years? vs trading him off to a Playoff contender and the prospect he gets in return more likely?

Oh yeah Segura. Well, Sardinas and Arcia pretty much take care of him. Another if the core is barren/practically empty why hang on to someone who has 3years left with the team vs trading him and getting a more likely piece to build a core around?

 

It's Nelson and Braun and the rest are Minor Leaguers that are going to have to perform when they graduate to get in to core consideration.

 

Can likely add Corey Knebel as a core piece but I don't want to predict his for sure success, when a Pitcher like Wily Peralta hasn't performed for his expectation of success.

 

It's the perfect season for a complete tear down/rebuild..or sell off of everyone on the ML roster. A good Owner/GM will have 15 if not 18 of the current 25 man gone by season's end.

 

May as well introduce the SPs in AAA Jungmann, Lopez and whomever else as they aren't core pieces themselves. So it's not like the service clock has to be considered in promoting them too early.

[MrTPlush]

Biggest thing we need is a future ace for Gomez or Lucroy and we can't afford to miss. Hopefully get a great arm for both. I think if we can get two big arms to go with Jimmy and Wily, that is a good start.

 

Lucroy for Julio Urias.

 

Haha that would be pretty awesome. Unreal he is 18 at AA...