Ryan Braun - Worst Contract in Franchise History?

[tmwiese55]

Put me in the camp of the thumb injury is more important than PED. But PEDs I bet would have been helpful in overcoming that and his other multitude of nagging injuries. From what I understand that is what PEDs are used for now. There's really no way to use the all out steroids of the Bonds/Mcguire era due to the testing, so they use just to keep fresh on the grind of the season and to recover from injuries. Personally, I'm fine with it, I'd rather see the guys on the field than hurt or sitting out to rest.

[pacopete4]

I think the biggest reason we have a misunderstanding here is because you don't realize how great I think Scooter Gennett is. I think he could be an elite MLB hitter with more development. I think he's got a great swing.

 

I hope you are right. The Brewers could use something good to happen.

 

I hope you're right too but I just can't see it due to being so ineffective against lefties.

[MrTPlush]

Think of Ryan Braun as a person and you will see that him doing drugs ever since college is not all that surprising. The guy is really smart. In high school his lowest grade ended up being a "B" in advanced placement chemistry. Smart people are also very dangerous people. They are the people that can do these drugs and stay in the dark without getting caught. Looking back at how he handled the positive test and it is almost scary how perfect he played it out. Then you get to his college career. He was the offensive star on the team that was loaded with PED users...to think he wasn't one of them is a bit foolish. Then his bestie was Alex Rodriguez and he also sported a giant ego...coincidence?

 

I think there are two reasons his production has dropped mightily post PEDs:

 

1. First and foremost just the shell shock of being with out them. I imagine it is kinda like taking a guy in Single A and throwing him on the MLB roster.

 

2. Look at Ryan Braun when he was taking steroids. The guy had confidence through the roof and always had a fire to him. I think one of the biggest downfalls is how much he believed in those drugs. They gave him the confidence he needed to be successful. I don't know if you guys have ever known anyone who took PEDs for sport performance, but most truly think they need them. A lot of times once they stop confidence just vanishes and they lose interest. It is amazing to look at how much he just doesn't care anymore. In 2012 he had fire to prove people wrong and come back stronger...though it looks like it was because he had confidence he could mask the drugs again. Regardless post 2012 Ryan Braun simply isn't the same player or person.

 

I think people forget PEDs aren't all about the physical aspects and there is a huge mental game being played too.

[Patrick425]

Put me in the camp of the thumb injury is more important than PED. But PEDs I bet would have been helpful in overcoming that and his other multitude of nagging injuries. From what I understand that is what PEDs are used for now. There's really no way to use the all out steroids of the Bonds/Mcguire era due to the testing, so they use just to keep fresh on the grind of the season and to recover from injuries. Personally, I'm fine with it, I'd rather see the guys on the field than hurt or sitting out to rest.

 

I'd be fine with it too if it were not against the rules. Otherwise, I don't really have any sympathy for any player that gets caught taking them. If enough players believe that it is a legitimate way to help stay off the DL for extended periods of time and any other risks associated with it are minimal then they should try to convince the owners to loosen the rules to allow limited use of PEDs in order to stay healthy. I don't know that the players union is currently inclined to do this (or that they believe this) and I don't ever see MLB allowing PEDs. Not in the near future anyways. It would be contrary to pretty much every other professional sport.

 

I'm personally skeptical regarding the "I'm only taking it to recover quickly" excuse. I feel like if MLB made some unprecedented rule change allowing certain PEDs, all of sudden there would be a rash of players coming up with all sorts of odd injuries and reasons that they need to be allowed to take PEDs.

[tmwiese55]

Yea obviously it's illegal so shouldn't try it. Simply meant if I were picking the rules I might lighten it up a bit as I think there was an overcorrection. Or at least if whatever they're using doesn't trip the test, then it's probably minor enough to not care.

 

Well I believe some of these guys who've been caught were actually prescribed their steroids to recover from injuries and given allowances to use them, but then used them longer than they were supposed to. Arod actually was getting some kind of testosterone waiver most of his career, I don't remember exactly what it was though. You're right though, it's not getting lightened up any time soon.

[adambr2]

I think the Ryan Braun situation is pretty concerning and I don't think we can assume his production in 2012 came without the use of PEDs. It's entirely possible that he had used PEDs for his entire career. He could have easily tested positive due to a rare combination of error on his part while being randomly selected for testing. Many players have used PEDs and, relatively speaking, very few have been caught. If Braun was aware of a mistake on his part that directly led to the positive test and was confident that he could avoid making the mistake in the future, why would he stop using? Up until that point, he could have made it his entire career without testing positive.

 

To me, there is one point in time where we can be fairly certain that he stopped using PEDs - when Anthony Bosch's clinic was busted and shut down. Unfortunately for Braun and the Brewers, this point in time also marks a dramatic change in the level of his production. I think the PEDs impacted his performance far more than a lot people want to believe.

 

He is 31, seems to be getting injured with increased frequency and has been performing miserably when on the field. There is nothing good about this situation. I'm not sure if this will go down as the worst Brewers contract ever but I think it will easily wind up in the top 3.

If he used in 2012 I think it is safe to bet he is still using.

 

Why? Back in 2012 he,had just gotten off scot free. As far as MLB waa concerned he,had never used and was still subject to first time use policy, so it didn't cost hun much when he finally did get caught. No doubt he had plenty of incentive to get a big season to try to 'prove' himself clean.

 

If he got caught now, he'd lose out on an entire yearly 8 figure salary. He'd be one more test away from a lifetime ban which would forfeit the rest of his contract. He has little incentive to improve; I'm sure he'd like to, but he's already made as much money as he's going to make in his career. It doesn't make a material financial difference to him whether he hits .350 or .175 the rest of his career, he's still going to make the same amount. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by using.

 

I think it's perfectly plausible he was using in 2012 and isn't now.

[logan82]

I think the Ryan Braun situation is pretty concerning and I don't think we can assume his production in 2012 came without the use of PEDs. It's entirely possible that he had used PEDs for his entire career. He could have easily tested positive due to a rare combination of error on his part while being randomly selected for testing. Many players have used PEDs and, relatively speaking, very few have been caught. If Braun was aware of a mistake on his part that directly led to the positive test and was confident that he could avoid making the mistake in the future, why would he stop using? Up until that point, he could have made it his entire career without testing positive.

 

To me, there is one point in time where we can be fairly certain that he stopped using PEDs - when Anthony Bosch's clinic was busted and shut down. Unfortunately for Braun and the Brewers, this point in time also marks a dramatic change in the level of his production. I think the PEDs impacted his performance far more than a lot people want to believe.

 

He is 31, seems to be getting injured with increased frequency and has been performing miserably when on the field. There is nothing good about this situation. I'm not sure if this will go down as the worst Brewers contract ever but I think it will easily wind up in the top 3.

If he used in 2012 I think it is safe to bet he is still using.

 

Why? Back in 2012 he,had just gotten off scot free. As far as MLB waa concerned he,had never used and was still subject to first time use policy, so it didn't cost hun much when he finally did get caught. No doubt he had plenty of incentive to get a big season to try to 'prove' himself clean.

 

If he got caught now, he'd lose out on an entire yearly 8 figure salary. He'd be one more test away from a lifetime ban which would forfeit the rest of his contract. He has little incentive to improve; I'm sure he'd like to, but he's already made as much money as he's going to make in his career. It doesn't make a material financial difference to him whether he hits .350 or .175 the rest of his career, he's still going to make the same amount. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain by using.

 

I think it's perfectly plausible he was using in 2012 and isn't now.

If he was using during the increase scrutiny he was under in 2012 I see no reason for him to quit now.

[RobDeer 45]

1. First and foremost just the shell shock of being with out them. I imagine it is kinda like taking a guy in Single A and throwing him on the MLB roster.

 

2. Look at Ryan Braun when he was taking steroids. The guy had confidence through the roof and always had a fire to him. I think one of the biggest downfalls is how much he believed in those drugs. They gave him the confidence he needed to be successful. I don't know if you guys have ever known anyone who took PEDs for sport performance, but most truly think they need them. A lot of times once they stop confidence just vanishes and they lose interest. It is amazing to look at how much he just doesn't care anymore. In 2012 he had fire to prove people wrong and come back stronger...though it looks like it was because he had confidence he could mask the drugs again. Regardless post 2012 Ryan Braun simply isn't the same player or person.

 

I think people forget PEDs aren't all about the physical aspects and there is a huge mental game being played too.

 

Exactly how I feel. I also think it can potentially take a toll on your body. I feel he could be more frail now after such long use. I guess we don't know yet with HGH, but other testosterone boosters had negative impacts after people quit using them. I just think he's lost his swagger, he's getting older, and he will just continue to have more and more little injuries.

 

On a side note, I could be way off on this, but didn't Prince kind of have some animosity towards Braun at the end? Like he knew he was BS? I could totally be making that up.

[SoupTown]

Braun says he is 100% now. He has said that multiple times recently. I find it odd RR sat him (I think on Ryan's request) a couple of days in a row.

 

Now, we will never know REALLY the facts. So I propose we just view the evidence going forward. If Braun returns to even 90% Braun the evidence will show one thing. If Braun ends up being the Scooter of right field (no offense to Scooter intended)... well, the evidence shows another thing.

 

.700 OPS vs .800 OPS. That is my deciding criteria... for me. I guess the bugger will put up .750 OPS for the next 27 years he is signed for, and the evidence will prove nothing. (please let me allow performance future to be my evidence)

[bill hAll Star]

My favorite part was when Ron gave Braun a mental day off and then brought him back against a guy (Cueto) that has owned him in his career. Bashing Marquis or the bullpen that day may have been the best thing for Braun's mentality.

[Invader3K]

Well, Braun hit a homer last night, so at least it's some sign that he's coming around.

[pacopete4]

My favorite part was when Ron gave Braun a mental day off and then brought him back against a guy (Cueto) that has owned him in his career. Bashing Marquis or the bullpen that day may have been the best thing for Braun's mentality.

 

 

Not only that but on his "mental" day, he pinch hit against Chapman with two outs in the 9th, two men on and down by three. And to boot, people on this board and probably across the nation were waiting for the K and the "see, I told you he stinks now" comments.

 

 

Glad to see Braunie smack one out of the park. Both him and Aram went deep. Sure would be nice to see those two pick up steam.

[monty57]

I feel like if MLB made some unprecedented rule change allowing certain PEDs,

 

PED = Performance Enhancing Drugs

 

If what Braun was suspended for does not enhance performance, but instead helps the player heal (kind of like Cortisone), then it would be declassified as a "PED" and would be something that could be prescribed by a doctor. I agree with you that it is not likely to happen, but if the rumors are true and it does not indeed enhance performance without serious health risk, then I believe it should be allowed. If not, then Cortisone should be made illegal, as Babe Ruth didn't have access to Cortisone, so by current logic it's unfair that current players get that advantage. You could probably even take this argument to say that Tommy John surgery and arthroscopic knee surgery are "unfair advantages."

 

Of course, I have no idea if the drug Braun was suspended for does enhance performance, or if it is something that just helps players heal faster. I would hope that people who do know something about it are consulted by the rules committee.

[tmwiese55]

I think an argument can easily be made that something that helps heal and recover faster could be considered Performance Enhancing, well simply because it would enhance performance. I'm on your side as being ok with it, but it's totally logical for them to include it.

 

Logan, Adam laid out exactly why it would be logical to have quit after 2012. If he gets caught now he loses over 100 mil as he has a lifetime ban. In 2012 prior to his first suspension all he was facing was a 50 game ban while he was making next to nothing (relative to MLB money).

 

I'm in the camp though he'd have to be pretty stupid to use in 2012 to avoid bad PR since he just got away with it and had a chance to salvage his reputation still. Then again, it was pretty stupid to use in the playoffs when you know you're going to be tested once in the playoffs. Wait until that one test is done and then use all you want.

[3and2Fastball]

 

I always thought Braun looked like "Robo-Braun" in this game in 2012. More jacked up/muscular. Looks at his legs/hips. Noticeably bigger than he is now

[BrewCrewForever]

The HR last night was good, but until I see him be able to driver an inside fastball to LF and LCF on a regular basis, he just won't be the same player. Good pitchers will just pound him in because they know he can't turn on it like he used to. Outside part of the plate he can still seem to drive to RCF and RF, which is awesome and is a sign of a true great hitter, but you also need to be able to pull an inside pitcher with power, he has not done that since first part of 2013.

[MrTPlush]

I think an argument can easily be made that something that helps heal and recover faster could be considered Performance Enhancing, well simply because it would enhance performance. I'm on your side as being ok with it, but it's totally logical for them to include it.

 

Logan, Adam laid out exactly why it would be logical to have quit after 2012. If he gets caught now he loses over 100 mil as he has a lifetime ban. In 2012 prior to his first suspension all he was facing was a 50 game ban while he was making next to nothing (relative to MLB money).

 

I'm in the camp though he'd have to be pretty stupid to use in 2012 to avoid bad PR since he just got away with it and had a chance to salvage his reputation still. Then again, it was pretty stupid to use in the playoffs when you know you're going to be tested once in the playoffs. Wait until that one test is done and then use all you want.

 

 

But consider who his supplier was. This guy was also supplying A-Rod and many other people that never had a positive test. If I was Braun I would probably feel pretty confident I could go back to not getting caught. It is very possible he had been using since his college days and didn't get caught for nearly a decade. One silly mistake in ten years sounds pretty good. Also I am sure he knew what he did wrong in 2011 and could easily avoid the same situation in 2012.

[bill hAll Star]

Well, Braun hit a homer last night, so at least it's some sign that he's coming around.

 

This shows how much I've been paying attention (was at softball all night and just saw the score and A-Ram's homer).

 

Still not something I'd normally do.

[JJHardy7]

If Braun fails another test, he is banned from baseball? Is that true?

[BrewCrewForever]

If Braun fails another test, he is banned from baseball? Is that true?

 

No, I think he would get a full season 162 game suspension. The one after that would be banned for life.

[MrTPlush]

Braun isn't going to use PEDs again guys. He has no reason and doesn't seem like he cares to much about baseball(compared to before). It isn't like he is A-Rod wanting to breaking records etc.

[pacopete4]

Braun isn't going to use PEDs again guys. He has no reason and doesn't seem like he cares to much about baseball(compared to before). It isn't like he is A-Rod wanting to breaking records etc.

 

 

I always love these statements from fans. How in the heck would you know how much he cares? The man could go home every night and be miserable for his performance lately and you wouldn't know it. Usually players who are as good as Braun was, do not get there in the first place by having a regular persons work ethic. This stuff just is so dang funny to me.

[tmwiese55]

Tplush, yes totally feasible, we'll never know. It's also feasible the scenario someone else laid out in this thread breaking down the timelines of injuries etc. We'll never know. That's just the side I would bet on.

 

I could be wrong but I thought he counted as two strikes and the next is a lifetime ban. I thought that was part of the negotiation of his suspension, but it's been a while so I don't remember for sure I guess. Regardless, at this point he's looking at a 162 min which with his salary going up will be significant and that he'd have no chance at recovering his image/rep at all.

[monty57]

The HR last night was good, but until I see him be able to driver an inside fastball to LF and LCF on a regular basis, he just won't be the same player. Good pitchers will just pound him in because they know he can't turn on it like he used to. Outside part of the plate he can still seem to drive to RCF and RF, which is awesome and is a sign of a true great hitter, but you also need to be able to pull an inside pitcher with power, he has not done that since first part of 2013.

 

From my untrained eye, and from Bill constantly saying "it's good to see the guys going to the opposite field," it appears that the entire team's approach this season is to take everything the other way. I like players hitting outside pitches the other way, but they still need to be able to pull pitches and drive them out of the park. Could the coaching staff have implemented a "go the other way" approach that accounts for the complete lack of power from this year's squad?

[pacopete4]

The HR last night was good, but until I see him be able to driver an inside fastball to LF and LCF on a regular basis, he just won't be the same player. Good pitchers will just pound him in because they know he can't turn on it like he used to. Outside part of the plate he can still seem to drive to RCF and RF, which is awesome and is a sign of a true great hitter, but you also need to be able to pull an inside pitcher with power, he has not done that since first part of 2013.

 

From my untrained eye, and from Bill constantly saying "it's good to see the guys going to the opposite field," it appears that the entire team's approach this season is to take everything the other way. I like players hitting outside pitches the other way, but they still need to be able to pull pitches and drive them out of the park. Could the coaching staff have implemented a "go the other way" approach that accounts for the complete lack of power from this year's squad?

 

 

If they did implement this strategy it sure would go against RR and his approach with guys like Gomez who he basically told, be you. I can see what you are saying though from watching the games this season. It seems like we do have that approach. It's not a bad approach to have IF you have the players to make it happen.