2015-04-16 Brewers (Fiers) at Cardinals (Lackey) 12:45 CDT [Brewers lose, 4-0]

[yfinn6]

5 hits, all singles off John Lackey. Pathetic.

 

It's OK, they'll 'wake up' sometime around July; just in time for them to finish 10 games under .500. Then, they'll keep the team relatively the same because the team had "the best record in night games versus a lefty when they played on a natural surface with the roof open" and rinse and repeat.

[fondybrewfan]

How exactly are they suppose to hold people accountable? Bench them for who? Fire the new hitting coach after 2 weeks? Fire the head coach after 2 weeks? Demote 5 guys to AAA? The players need to get their crap together and start playing. Maybe there isn't strong enough leadership from the players. There aren't any Trevor Hoffmans around here.

[MrTPlush]

5 hits, all singles off John Lackey. Pathetic.

 

It's OK, they'll 'wake up' sometime around July; just in time for them to finish 10 games under .500. Then, they'll keep the team relatively the same because the team had "the best record in night games versus a lefty when they played on a natural surface with the roof open" and rinse and repeat.

 

10 games under .500?

 

This isn't the positive comments thread.

[yfinn6]

Rock - it doesn't matter how big Carpenter's double was to push it to 3-0. The Brewers aren't scoring today; ain't gonna happen.

[JohnBriggs12]

There is never any reason to play Ramirez in a day game after a night game.

[torts]

nothing better than tuning in to the Bob and Bob show!

http://disciplesofuecker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/images2.jpg

[JohnBriggs12]

How exactly are they suppose to hold people accountable? Bench them for who? Fire the new hitting coach after 2 weeks? Fire the head coach after 2 weeks? Demote 5 guys to AAA? The players need to get their **** together and start playing. Maybe there isn't strong enough leadership from the players. There aren't any Trevor Hoffman's around here.

 

Don't pay an additional $10 million to a washed up 3B. Don't pick up the option for the manager who oversaw a collapse of historic proportions or basically tell your GM that he has a job for life. Nobody paid the price for last year's collapse.

 

Manager doesn't hesitate to bench a complimentary player a day or two for losing his cool after a bad AB like he did with Gennett, but does he ever bench a star/former star who makes a bonehead decision on the bases or in the field or who is frequently taking swings at pitches a foot off the plate?

[reillymcshane]

This team's inability to take a walk is really concerning. Coming into today, we had walked 17 times in 290 plate appearances. That's a 5.9% rate. Today we only have one walk.

 

I realize that more walks doesn't always equal success. But it's something to look at. You swing at crap, teams will throw you crap. It often leads to a lot of strikeouts and weak contact.

[reillymcshane]

Matt Holliday has twice as many stolen bases as the Brewer team.

[TooLiveBrew]

How exactly are they suppose to hold people accountable? Bench them for who? Fire the new hitting coach after 2 weeks? Fire the head coach after 2 weeks? Demote 5 guys to AAA? The players need to get their crap together and start playing. Maybe there isn't strong enough leadership from the players. There aren't any Trevor Hoffmans around here.

As much as I'm not in favor of canning a manager (because I can count on one hand how many in MLB I believe are actual net positives), but that's the answer imo if you want to hold someone accountable. When there's a team-wide malaise that seemingly dates back to last summer, I think you have to follow the chain of command up to the manager. He's the one tasked with being responsible for the team as a whole on a day-to-day basis.

 

I don't know if firing Roenicke would wind up making a difference or not (likely not), but it wouldn't be just in reaction to a week or two of this season. You can point to the last 3 months of last season as well. And it's not just the team losing some games, it's... that it looks like the same core group of players has kinda lost the ability to compete on a regular basis.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here... I personally wouldn't fire Roenicke. But I can certainly see a case being made to do so.

[fondybrewfan]

How exactly are they suppose to hold people accountable? Bench them for who? Fire the new hitting coach after 2 weeks? Fire the head coach after 2 weeks? Demote 5 guys to AAA? The players need to get their crap together and start playing. Maybe there isn't strong enough leadership from the players. There aren't any Trevor Hoffman's around here.

 

Don't pay an additional $10 million to a washed up 3B. Don't pick up the option for the manager who oversaw a collapse of historic proportions or basically tell your GM that he has a job for life. Nobody paid the price for last year's collapse.

 

Manager doesn't hesitate to bench a complimentary player a day or two for losing his cool after a bad AB like he did with Gennett, but does he ever bench a star/former star who makes a bonehead decision on the bases or in the field or who is frequently taking swings at pitches a foot off the plate?

 

You also had a manager who had the team in first place for the entire year until the offense just decided to suck incredibly bad. What was he supposed to do. Ramirez I don't know about, obviously the guy is old but he is also a notoriously slow starter so I am not willing to bury him yet. Its not like DM felt he had any other good options; Rogers would be up playing if DM or anyone else thought he could actually be competent. And like has been noted before; he actually compared pretty well to other 3rd basemen last year.

 

Benching your stars for making boneheaded plays doesn't do anyone any good since the players playing instead of them are vastly inferior. Bench them if they don't hustle or look like they don't care; don't bench them if they make a mistake.

[trwi7]

Matt Holliday has twice as many stolen bases as the Brewer team.

 

Have to get on base to steal.

[3and2Fastball]

this was quite probably the Brewers' worst game so far. Lackey was really struggling and missing his spots. Molina would set up outside and Lackey would throw a meatball right down the middle and the Brew Crew could do nothing with it. This happened 3 to 4 times an inning in the first 5 innings. Unbelievably poor hitting

[Baldkin]

This team's inability to take a walk is really concerning. Coming into today, we had walked 17 times in 290 plate appearances. That's a 5.9% rate. Today we only have one walk.

 

I realize that more walks doesn't always equal success. But it's something to look at. You swing at crap, teams will throw you crap. It often leads to a lot of strikeouts and weak contact.

 

OBP correlates to runs better than just about any other statistic. Not making outs is how you score. The team-wide aversion to walks is troubling.

 

So is the fact that the coaching staff seems to encourage it.

[FVBrewerFan]

Managing is more than benching people if they don't perform or make a bone-headed play. Think about your own career. Weren't their bosses who got the most out of you, and bosses who did not?

 

How a manager gets the most from his players is insignificant. Over the years, some have done it through reputation. Others have used fear and intimidation. Other s have been a "players coach." I could go and on. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Either you find a way to get people to perform for you, or you don't.

 

Finally, sometimes there doesn't need to be a tangible reason to fire a manager. When you get the sense the team is dormant, nothing seems to change or get any better, etc., changing the manager is worth a try. Maybe that works, maybe it doesn't, but let me ask this. What do they have to lose? Is anyone really going to look back 3 years from now and long for RR to be back?

[brewcrewdue80]

All I know, is you read the Brewers Facebook posts and the comments and over 1/3rd are Fire Roenicke. And that is exactly why he should have been let go after 2014. 2-7 start to the season and fans want a change. Of course they do after last year's collapse. Nobody honestly took it on the chin after last season. And here they are supposedly playing to the exact Collapsing team seen of 2014. You read the Roenicke comments. (something of this sort) Stars are up to bat with runners on base and they aren't getting it done. Manager excuse-talk. He's right they aren't getting it done. But he makes the lineups. You put your stars in that order to get the job done. Maybe if Lucroy isn't hitting well right now, he should have put Lind at #2. Moved Lucroy to #4 or #5 with giving Davis surprise of the #4/5 instead and moved ARam to #6. Or as someone mentioned right away. Why have Parra and Gennett 1 after another? Put a Righty ahead of each and maybe set up later on vs a Specialist Lefty to just bunt Sacrifice over. as Schafer seems to be used for his Pinch hit opportunities. Then there's a Righty with a Lefty pitching and risp.

 

Stuff like this sticks out...not even talking about the 3rd out at 3b or 1st out for that matter type of running errors. The Broxton instead of Smith erroneous decision.

 

I just don't get how after that collapse, you could bring back the manager in what was his final year of contract. He was on the Hott Seat due to the collapse. He's immediately beginning the season on the Hott Seat and that's a mistake and it's playing out why. Fire Roenicke is being wished upon by over 1/3rd the fans now. Think these fans will show up to games if the Brewers mull around 5-10games below .500 and Roenicke is still managing them?

[adambr2]

I see no realistic chance RR is brought back if this is a 70-75 win team, with an outside shot of him getting fired mid-season if our first half is bad enough.

[MrTPlush]

I see no realistic chance RR is brought back if this is a 70-75 win team, with an outside shot of him getting fired mid-season if our first half is bad enough.

 

They won't fire Roenicke mid season just because there is no inside replacement for the rest of the year. The only way he is fired is to please casual fans so they can salvage some ticket sales.

[TURBO]

The leadership of this team holds nobody accountable, from the owner on down to the manager.

 

...and that's the truth.

[TURBO]

 

You also had a manager who had the team in first place for the entire year until the offense just decided to suck incredibly bad.

 

The team was in 1st place that long in spite of our manager, not because of him...

 

I like the fact that so many are finally starting to understand that RRR is a detriment to this team. I have been saying so for a couple years now, as you all know, but it appears that a lot of posters are starting to feel the same as me.

[TURBO]

The only way he is fired is to please casual fans so they can salvage some ticket sales.

 

to please casual fans?

 

the casual fan doesn't even know how bad RRR is, the casual fan might not even be able to tell you who our manager is...

 

RRR needs to be fired for many reasons, but the casual fan isn't one of them.

[adambr2]

Seriously, I can't fathom that at some point in the last week, Mark A hasn't asked himself, "Do I really want to keep this guy indefinitely? "

 

Unfortunately it may be the case that Melvin has simply given Mark A exactly the team that he has asked for.

[superfly]

So was busy at work and just checked the score now...unbelievable how pathetic this team is. Where is the "patented" players only meeting? What about somebody speaking up and calling their play horse crap and it is completely unacceptable. Braun ? Lucroy ? Ramirez ? Anyone out there ? It's like there are 9 Joe Mauers out there on the field for us...nice guys that never say a single word & never care that the team spirals out of control each and every season.

 

This team is a bunch of wimps managed by an incompetent coach, who is apparently employed by an incompetent GM, who is apparently employed by an incompetent owner. I've been in MA's court from day 1, but it's time to call a spade a spade. Enough is enough of this garbage...start benching, assigning to AAA, SOMETHING.

 

I know it's 9 games in and there are 152 left, but there is no change going on here from the historic collapse that occurred last year. I'm a diehard Brewers fan and i'm really having trouble remembering when they play & to even check a box score. If that's happening to me, MA better get worried pretty quickly because he's going to book a major loss for the year if this continues.

[yfinn6]

Seriously, I can't fathom that at some point in the last week, Mark A hasn't asked himself, "Do I really want to keep this guy indefinitely? "

 

Unfortunately it may be the case that Melvin has simply given Mark A exactly the team that he has asked for.

 

This is kind of the way I look at it. The team, if they perform "as they should", can compete. Competing means winning maybe 85 games and being in the hunt. Once you're in the playoffs, maybe management thinks it is anyone's game at that point. This probably doesn't take into account serious injuries and guys just flat-out not performing up to a level they've shown in the past (ding, ding - the team is getting older).

 

Mark A isn't going to take a loss; so he's got to have people telling him how many fans will come with X amount of wins, and how many tickets he needs to sell so he doesn't take a loss. By not over-spending, and by not rebuilding and risking losing ticket sales in the process, he can make a profit.

 

This doesn't mean I think he's a bad owner - clearly he's a good business man and I have no gripes with that. If he would be in favor of a rebuild, that would be a good thing; however, I think he worries that casual fans would get restless and they're likely the majority of Brewer fans. It's hard to blame him for that.

[MrTPlush]

Seriously, I can't fathom that at some point in the last week, Mark A hasn't asked himself, "Do I really want to keep this guy indefinitely? "

 

Unfortunately it may be the case that Melvin has simply given Mark A exactly the team that he has asked for.

 

Mark A wants a competitive team on the field ever year...the Brewers can't do that...so this is what Melvin attempts to do.