2015 Regular Season Optimism Thread

[pacopete4]

It's not so much the difference between a top 3 and top 5 pick. It's more about not wanting this team to end up deciding to avoid the inevitable firesale and spending the next few years continuing to tread water.

 

I'm not rooting for us to lose games, but let's say we can go on a nice little run in the second half and win 75-80 games. This helps us how exactly?

 

 

Never been a part of a winning or losing program or what? It's very simple. Losing breeds losing. Winnings inspires winning. Anyone who's played athletics in their lifetime will tell you that. This organization needs to consistently win. Not make the playoffs every thirty years and rebuild. Screw that formula.

[yfinn6]

It's not so much the difference between a top 3 and top 5 pick. It's more about not wanting this team to end up deciding to avoid the inevitable firesale and spending the next few years continuing to tread water.

 

I'm not rooting for us to lose games, but let's say we can go on a nice little run in the second half and win 75-80 games. This helps us how exactly?

 

 

Never been a part of a winning or losing program or what? It's very simple. Losing breeds losing. Winnings inspires winning. Anyone who's played athletics in their lifetime will tell you that. This organization needs to consistently win. Not make the playoffs every thirty years and rebuild. Screw that formula.

 

Oh fun, I love this.

 

If it's so simple, why didn't the Brewers continue winning in 2012? They won a bunch of games in 2011, why didn't they continue to win in 2012 if winning inspires winning? Winning happens to do more with talent and production than any good morale in the clubhouse.

[FVBrewerFan]

When I played beer league softball...

 

But seriously folks... Ok if losing breeds losing, then they're doomed for next year no? And the year after that, and so on. I mean, if losing breeds losing, looks like there's no way out of this? Ever?

 

You do realize that just saying "they need to win" doesn't make it happen?

[TheCrew07]

Never been a part of a winning or losing program or what? It's very simple. Losing breeds losing. Winnings inspires winning. Anyone who's played athletics in their lifetime will tell you that. This organization needs to consistently win. Not make the playoffs every thirty years and rebuild. Screw that formula.

 

I agree to certain extent that success and failure can be contagious in sports, but losing with veteran players has nothing to do with how a rebuilt team will perform. Ultimately it's production that determines who wins and loses, and by and large at the professional level that's a reflection of the talent on the team. Oldy Ramirez isn't going to play like he did in his first season with the Brewers again... because he's old... and that's how aging works. He's a worse player than he was when his contract was signed, as is Lohse.

 

Posters can and will spin this stuff however they want to make their point but I'll say that the worst thing that could happen would be for this team to go on a big run and make a push for .500 because that would validate this strategy of mediocrity that management has been pursuing.

 

If you aren't building towards something your organization is stagnant, and the Brewers have been stagnant for a long time. You can continue moving the organization forward by shrewdly moving assets around but the Brewers operate on such narrow range of possibilities that they are either "sellers" or "buyers", there's no in-between. When operating that way there's no room for regularly cycling older talent off the MLB roster and eventually the team ends up exactly where it is... Old, expensive, and marginally productive.

 

At some point Brewer management needs to get past player X vs player Y for the current calendar year and start looking farther ahead. That way we would avoid all these FA contracts for middling players of all types, especially in the rotation, which limits the overall ceiling of the team and franchise.

 

The Brewers aren't destined to be mediocre, just getting playoff appearances here and there bought with prospects, it wasn't preordained, it's not fate... being average is the way the organization chooses to operate because there are no well defined goals or plan to achieve those goals. It's just whack-a-mole with holes in the roster from year to year, and nothing is really going to change until we can develop a trio of top of the rotation pitchers at the same time, until that point this is all just window dressing to sell tickets.

 

This all comes back to pitching, the Brewers have never had enough because they couldn't draft, sign, or develop it... and then knowing they didn't have top of the rotation talent they wouldn't target it via trades for unproven pitching instead opting to trade for proven short term MLB solutions and sign averagish players to FA contracts.

 

"Trying to win as many as games possible" in the current calendar year is a completely abstract concept, it's not a plan, there are no achievable goals, there's no road map, it's just sign this $10,000,000 player to a 3yr contract because he's better than who we have. We'll be around .500, sell a bunch of tickets, and fans will have enough "hope" of a playoff appearance to keep the cycle going.

 

Please just play around .500 ball the rest of the way, no hot streaks... this organization needs an abrupt change in direction and strategy. If the Brewers play back to around .500 we'll have the inevitable yip yap about "bad luck" and this train will continue moving in the same direction it has been.

 

I jumped off the train a very long time ago, it would be nice to be able to get back on-board.

[adambr2]

It's not so much the difference between a top 3 and top 5 pick. It's more about not wanting this team to end up deciding to avoid the inevitable firesale and spending the next few years continuing to tread water.

 

I'm not rooting for us to lose games, but let's say we can go on a nice little run in the second half and win 75-80 games. This helps us how exactly?

 

 

Never been a part of a winning or losing program or what? It's very simple. Losing breeds losing. Winnings inspires winning. Anyone who's played athletics in their lifetime will tell you that. This organization needs to consistently win. Not make the playoffs every thirty years and rebuild. Screw that formula.

 

This is an extreme oversimplification. It's not that simple. If it were, the Astros wouldn't be in 1st place and the Royals would have never dug out of their hole. Every organization would like to "consistently win". For most, it goes in cycles. Even the A's, who have pretty much been the model team for running a small market team, are going through a down cycle this year. We've been trying to consistently win for the last 8 years with the core we have.

 

Also, winning 75-80 games isn't "winning" so I don't even know how that answers the original question.

 

You can only go into a rebuild kicking and screaming for so long. If you're a bottom 5 team, your fans are going to lose interest and your attendance will drop. Doesn't pay to continue to trot out a full payroll of aging vets for a 70 win team rather than biting the bullet and trying to get younger.

[Ennder]

Wow you guys sure did read a lot into the one sentence I typed. I still think this is a 84ish win team that has played poorly. I jus. Don't think an 84 win team is enough to come back from this poor of a start. The thing I fear most is being indecisive come trading time.

[FVBrewerFan]

Wow you guys sure did read a lot into the one sentence I typed.

 

That never happens around here

[JohnBriggs12]

14-14 record in June, the first non losing month since last June when they were 18-10!

 

If they can follow that up with 14 more wins in July and 20 each in August and Sept/Oct, they are at 85 wins for the year!

 

No, I'm not calling for a mid-air collision of planes carrying the Cardinals and Cubs.

[tmwiese55]

Only 11.5 back in WC. We'll be right back in it before we know it.

 

Seriously though it's good to see them still putting in effort and caring about winning even though they know it's over. Good sign for Counsell being a good manager.

[JohnBriggs12]

Wow you guys sure did read a lot into the one sentence I typed. I still think this is a 84ish win team that has played poorly. I jus. Don't think an 84 win team is enough to come back from this poor of a start. The thing I fear most is being indecisive come trading time.

 

Glimmer of hope based on what happened in 91 when they finished 40-19 to crawl above .500 and make it harder for Bando to fire Trebelhorn. Will be very tough with all the games left vs. division. Can't play the Phillies every week. But we're finally seeing the team we thought they had and those of us advocating adjustments rather than complete blowup of roster feeling better. The core here isn't bad. Once we stopped seeing the likes of Maldonado, Schafer, Hector, and Herrera on a daily basis, they became competitive.

[craigharmann]

Counsell is managing, DM is going to no longer be GM. It has to get better. It can't get worse. Unless next winter, MA decides to sign a middling SP to a 5 year, $110 million contract.

[Ennder]

Brewers will be 30-31 over their last 61 games soon. Seems more like an awful first 2 weeks derailing a season than the worst franchise in the history of the game that many on the site want you to believe lately.

[trwi7]

Brewers will be 30-31 over their last 61 games soon. Seems more like an awful first 2 weeks derailing a season than the worst franchise in the history of the game that many on the site want you to believe lately.

 

Yay for being incredibly mediocre if you discount the few weeks where we were incredibly terrible, I guess?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Brewers will be 30-31 over their last 61 games soon. Seems more like an awful first 2 weeks derailing a season than the worst franchise in the history of the game that many on the site want you to believe lately.

 

 

Yes!!! Cherry picking a select portion of the season in which they are *almost* .500!!!

[JohnBriggs12]

Brewers will be 30-31 over their last 61 games soon. Seems more like an awful first 2 weeks derailing a season than the worst franchise in the history of the game that many on the site want you to believe lately.

 

 

Yes!!! Cherry picking a select portion of the season in which they are *almost* .500!!!

 

Ennder's right. They need to think hard about blowing up a team based on essentially 60 game stretch from late August to May 1. Are they a championship caliber team right now? No. Do they have quality players on their roster that can be built around over the next several seasons? Yes.

Are there some moves that can be made that could address issues for this team rather than the 2020 team? Yes. Is there some talent currently in the system that can be integrated into this roster and provide a boost? Yes. Do they have a loyal fanbase that supports them? Yes. Does the payroll committed in future seasons preclude adding a player here or there via FA? No.

[LouisEly]

Yay for being incredibly mediocre if you discount the few weeks where we were incredibly terrible, I guess?

Yes!!! Cherry picking a select portion of the season in which they are *almost* .500!!!

Isn't this the optimism thread?

 

Hooray for Parra and Ramirez helping boost their trade value - hope they can keep up this hot streak for the next three weeks (or until they are traded).

[Pugger]

I don't know if blowing the team up will cure all of our ills either. We need to replace the top of rotation and find a long time answer to 3rd and 1st base. This year especially Lohse and Garza have been brutal. Besides Broxton the pen has been pretty good. Frankie is getting long in the tooth so finding someone to save games is needed long term. Lind is a nice player but is no spring chicken and Ramirez is retiring. I like a lot of the youngsters playing right now. Even tho we were horrid to start the year there are silver linings to these dark clouds.

[trwi7]

Yay for being incredibly mediocre if you discount the few weeks where we were incredibly terrible, I guess?

Yes!!! Cherry picking a select portion of the season in which they are *almost* .500!!!

Isn't this the optimism thread?

 

Hooray for Parra and Ramirez helping boost their trade value - hope they can keep up this hot streak for the next three weeks (or until they are traded).

 

Seems like when you're trying to throw it back in posters' faces everything is up for grabs.

[logan82]

Brewers will be 30-31 over their last 61 games soon. Seems more like an awful first 2 weeks derailing a season than the worst franchise in the history of the game that many on the site want you to believe lately.

 

 

Yes!!! Cherry picking a select portion of the season in which they are *almost* .500!!!

It's awesome that it only took 6 straight wins to get close to mediocre. Hooray for playing 4 against the Phillies.

[MrTPlush]

Our trade chips are playing better. Can't get any better than that.

[Nottso]

I don't know if blowing the team up will cure all of our ills either. We need to replace the top of rotation and find a long time answer to 3rd and 1st base. This year especially Lohse and Garza have been brutal. Besides Broxton the pen has been pretty good. Frankie is getting long in the tooth so finding someone to save games is needed long term. Lind is a nice player but is no spring chicken and Ramirez is retiring. I like a lot of the youngsters playing right now. Even tho we were horrid to start the year there are silver linings to these dark clouds.

 

What he said. Finding/developing pitching seems to be pretty much a crap-shoot, but how do we keep struggling at first and third, and continually plug old guys in at those spots?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like Melvin has drafted in a very reactionary manner. We were once thin in the outfield and then ended up with a glut of outfielders on the farm. We were thin up the middle and now we seem to have a farm full of middle infielders. He went on a pitching spree for a year or two where he seemed to draft nothing but pitchers. Lord knows, we need the pitching, but it just seems to me like a more balanced draft strategy or Best Player Available strategy would bear a lot more fruit.

[MrTPlush]

I don't know if blowing the team up will cure all of our ills either. We need to replace the top of rotation and find a long time answer to 3rd and 1st base. This year especially Lohse and Garza have been brutal. Besides Broxton the pen has been pretty good. Frankie is getting long in the tooth so finding someone to save games is needed long term. Lind is a nice player but is no spring chicken and Ramirez is retiring. I like a lot of the youngsters playing right now. Even tho we were horrid to start the year there are silver linings to these dark clouds.

 

What he said. Finding/developing pitching seems to be pretty much a crap-shoot, but how do we keep struggling at first and third, and continually plug old guys in at those spots?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like Melvin has drafted in a very reactionary manner. We were once thin in the outfield and then ended up with a glut of outfielders on the farm. We were thin up the middle and now we seem to have a farm full of middle infielders. He went on a pitching spree for a year or two where he seemed to draft nothing but pitchers. Lord knows, we need the pitching, but it just seems to me like a more balanced draft strategy or Best Player Available strategy would bear a lot more fruit.

 

I don't think much of that was reactionary except when they went Jungmann/Bradley. That seemed to be a bit intentional. Every thing else just seems like best player available on the Brewers draft board.

 

I mean we have been pretty strong in the outfield department since the start of time. I can't remember the last time I peaked at our prospects and thought we were weak there. Not to mention we went Trent Clark this year. Then when you look at the middle infield one guy was signed internationally(Arcia) and the other main piece was traded for(Sardinas).

 

When you are drafting mid first or later like the Brewers have the best player available isn't that obvious. So many guys grade out the same you almost have to have a preference(pitcher, prep, college, hitter).

[DHonks]

glad to see the Brewers regressing/progressing towards the mean. This team should have been an 82-88 win squad before injuries and poor play. At this point I'd like to see us keep most of the squad in tact, while re-tooling for both later in the season and next year.

 

Moves to make:

if offered decent prospects for Lohse, Garza, Parra, Broxton, Cotts, and Ramirez, they should go. I don't want some crappy A-ball filler for them, but I also think we need to give the rotation a try with some youngsters. Peralta, Nelson, Fiers, Jungmann, and Cravy/Thorny/Wagner.

 

Things to ponder:

-Can Khris Davis continue to progress? His OBP gains over last year have been nice, but we'd like to see more.

-Keep K-Rod or trade him? He likes Milwaukee, he has performed and he's supposedly a great veteran presence.

-Is Scooter our 2b? His hitting and strikeouts are worse than norms. His defense is fine. He's still only 25

-Can Scooter, Rogers, or Seggy play 3b?

-Do we bring up Arcia in August to get his feet wet?

-Should Jeffress or Smith close?

[ewitkows]

There aren't going to be any decent offers for loshe, Garza, Broxton or Ramirez. At best all we can do is salary dump them.

[pacopete4]

There aren't going to be any decent offers for loshe, Garza, Broxton or Ramirez. At best all we can do is salary dump them.

 

This is the optimism thread. Thanks!