What Many Brewers Fans May Think, But Dare Not Say (Yet)

[phnxcrew]

I for one am glad this team is losing early and often. If they keep up the band aid approach much longer we could be in for a decade of 60 and 70 win teams. They need their vets to overperform to get any good pieces and hopefully melvin is fired so some one competent can trade gomez as he is the only chip that will bring back one or two blue chip prospects. Mark A must be way too nice of a guy he needed to clean house after last year's unreal collapse. I am Forever a brewers fan but forever a realist. Wake up management

[brewmann04]

Sorry doug the way RR uses the bullpen they will be taxed again. Also it nothing good for loshe who looking his age and Garza is a 500 pitcher at best. The FO chose not to make major changes thinking all the guys will bounce back this year.

This team does not plau with any fire and they are taking the emotion of their Manager.

[TheCrew07]

It's 10 games.

 

I can appreciate the fact that you just prefer the Brewers to try and win as many games as possible every year like Mark A, but that's not enough for me as a fan, nor do I believe that strategy has proven successful long-term in any sport. In fact as I've posted literally hundreds of times, I think that strategy forces a "rebuild" when teams should just be looking to "reload" a little each year with young talent.

 

If you aren't building towards something then your franchise is stagnant and the Brewers as a franchise have been stagnant since 2006. They haven't looked to continue building great depth, they haven't cycled talent to keep players in their prime years as the core of the roster, they've done the exact opposite. Trading away every somewhat disposable resource for temporary solutions that haven't netted us anything more than 1 playoff series win. While that's certainly better than the 20 years of futility that preceded this recent run, it's not good enough to win a championship, and if the Brewers aren't ever going to be good enough to legitimately compete for a championship then I'll ultimately move on.

 

I can't even bring myself to watch the Brewers the last couple of years, I've watched 4 or 5 times more minor league baseball games than I have major league baseball. The truth is outside of Lucroy and a couple of pitchers, I don't really have any players left whom I really pull hard for. Worse yet is a guy like KRod who I'd rather give up runs every single time he pitches is closing for the Brewers, I don't want to watch someone like that have success, and since I won't cheer against the Brewers, I just don't watch or attend games.

[3and2Fastball]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

[3and2Fastball]

We could just as easily win 8 of our next 10.

 

We lack the pitching to do that

 

Peralta could win 8 of his next 10 starts

 

Our bullpen isn't efficient enough or used efficiently enough to get that done, I don't think..... would love to be wrong

[3and2Fastball]

I think they ARE in fact, 2-8 bad...

 

.200 would be by far the worst winning percentage for a team in the modern era. Do you seriously think the 2015 Brewers are the worst baseball team of all time?

 

Not yet

 

On a serious note, I'd be hesitant to trade Segura too. Great shortstops are hard to find. He has the potential for greatness

[danzig6767]

It's 10 games. No reason to panic. It's frustrating watching how efficient the Cards are. It's like they know when to work the count and when to hammer first pitches.

 

Still, our bullpen should be a strength. Our rotation should be a strength.

Why should the bullpen be a strength when compared to other teams with a good pen? There isn't even one top notch guy in the whole bullpen, much less multiple ones as some other teams have. The rotation also lacks a sure fire number one starter and quite a few teams number two starter is better than our best. Loshe is a year older. Most of our starters consistently struggle to get past 6-7 innings. Very little depth if any of the five get hurt.

 

Looking at the lineup, i fully expect Lucroy to start hitting sooner than later. Just a bad start. Ramirez though very well could have finally hit that age brick wall. He also has yet to take a single walk in 35 at bats so far. Then there is the complete great unknown in Ryan Braun. Granted, it's only 10 games, but not a single extra base hit so far and he's only taken one walk. Between the question of to what degree PED's may have contributed to his prior greatness, the thumb, his other injuries, and now he's 31 years old, trying to guess how productive he'll end up being through the rest of this season and then going forward is very hard for me to get any strong grasp of.

 

I love watching Brewers baseball in the summer, so i hope you are right and the team isn't so buried by early June that i'm no longer interested enough to watch, but for a variety of reasons i see the odds being significantly higher on the side of the team being nearly toast by say early June than being .500 or better.

[wildcat2237]

 

Gomez, Lucroy, and Peralta are the only guys on our roster with a lot of straight up trade value.

 

Sadly this is right on.

 

I think if DM took the plunge and marketed it right he could get 10-12 real nice pieces with those three guys. Probably at least 4 top 100 prospects. The minor league system would immediately be VERY interesting when you take guys like Arcia, Lara, Gatewood, and Coulter into consideration.

[BrewCrewForever]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I agree with this. Peralta and Nelson are too good and we control them for too long yet. They have to be kept, everyone else can be par of the fire sale. And I hate to say that as I love Lucroy, Gomez and Segura. But those three will get you the most really good prospects back. With the pieces they could get back for those three players in addition to guys we currently have in the system like Arcia, Taylor, Coulter, Harrison, Lara, Williams, Wang, etc. some of those guys could already be here in 2017 and by 2018 or 2019 Brewers might be serious contenders again. I know a lot of fans and maybe even ownership hate the idea of a 3-5 year rebuild but now is the time so we can actually go on a contending run again.

[Outlander]

I think Segura is a guy that could bring a lot as well if he keeps this up through the All Star break. I wouldn't mind if they gave him a shot at third but he has more value at SS. It is just that something has to give with Sardinas, Segura and Arcia as they are all starting caliber SS, possibly even right now.

[Invader3K]

I just can't believe how anemic the offense is right now. I am not ready to waive the white flag right now, but this is looking more and more like the team many of us feared it would be.

[pacopete4]

I'm sorry but if you're someone who "predicted" Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Ramirez hitting as poor as they have then you're just a pessimistic punk IMO.

[adambr2]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I don't think it's good business to consider anyone on your team untouchable, particularly for a rebuilding team. That just shuts out potential opportunities. Peralta is under control for 3 more years after this one. I'm not sure that 3 years is enough time for us to even be competitive again anyway.

 

You don't WANT to sell a guy like Nelson, and obviously even in a fire sale, you're not looking to do so, but like I said, I would never say never and close the door on an option. What if we were being offered 4 top 25 prospects for Gomez and Nelson, and they insisted Nelson be part of the trade?

[MrTPlush]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I don't think it's good business to consider anyone on your team untouchable, particularly for a rebuilding team. That just shuts out potential opportunities. Peralta is under control for 3 more years after this one. I'm not sure that 3 years is enough time for us to even be competitive again anyway.

 

You don't WANT to sell a guy like Nelson, and obviously even in a fire sale, you're not looking to do so, but like I said, I would never say never and close the door on an option. What if we were being offered 4 top 25 prospects for Gomez and Nelson, and they insisted Nelson be part of the trade?

 

Why can't Wily be signed to an extension...? Why does everyone on here just assume that after arbitration these players are going to dart? Khris Davis and Wily Peralta can both be had for pretty cheap if they get some insurance. Segura might be willing to sign an extension now you never know.

 

Also that is such a stupid example. Don't "what if" something so ridiculously dumb...obviously they would do that, but it would never happen.

[3and2Fastball]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I don't think it's good business to consider anyone on your team untouchable, particularly for a rebuilding team. That just shuts out potential opportunities. Peralta is under control for 3 more years after this one. I'm not sure that 3 years is enough time for us to even be competitive again anyway.

 

You don't WANT to sell a guy like Nelson, and obviously even in a fire sale, you're not looking to do so, but like I said, I would never say never and close the door on an option. What if we were being offered 4 top 25 prospects for Gomez and Nelson, and they insisted Nelson be part of the trade?

 

Good point.

 

I suppose I should have said that Peralta & Nelson would be the 2 players I'd least like to see traded.

[adambr2]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I don't think it's good business to consider anyone on your team untouchable, particularly for a rebuilding team. That just shuts out potential opportunities. Peralta is under control for 3 more years after this one. I'm not sure that 3 years is enough time for us to even be competitive again anyway.

 

You don't WANT to sell a guy like Nelson, and obviously even in a fire sale, you're not looking to do so, but like I said, I would never say never and close the door on an option. What if we were being offered 4 top 25 prospects for Gomez and Nelson, and they insisted Nelson be part of the trade?

 

Why can't Wily be signed to an extension...? Why does everyone on here just assume that after arbitration these players are going to dart? Khris Davis and Wily Peralta can both be had for pretty cheap if they get some insurance. Segura might be willing to sign an extension now you never know.

 

Also that is such a stupid example. Don't "what if" something so ridiculously dumb...obviously they would do that, but it would never happen.

 

Wily could be signed to an extension and that would be a good option, I never said otherwise. I was simply pointing out that it doesn't pay to shut the door on other opportunities.

 

By the way, do not ever again attack my ideas as "stupid" or "ridiculously dumb". Many blockbuster trades would have sounded out there and crazy until they actually came to fruition, and whether or not the proper mix of prospects is "3 or 4" or "top 25" or "top 50" was not the point of the comment.

[Outlander]

 

Also that is such a stupid example. Don't "what if" something so ridiculously dumb...obviously they would do that, but it would never happen.

That escalated quickly. Calm down, the only thing stupid is your reaction.

[MrTPlush]

I hope people realize there is value outside of Top 100 prospects. It seems everyone thinks Lohse, Lind, and Ramirez aren't worth a lot because they won't bring back big time prospects(and this is before their poor starts to the season). If they have their typical years they can all still bring back a legitimate prospect. You just have to trust the scouting department to find those not so shiny gems. Khris Davis was never a top prospect, but probably will have a better career than half the Top 100 prospects from when he was in the minors.

 

Heck even future bullpen pieces could be huge. Then we don't have to trot out K-Rod, Broxton, and Cotts.

[adambr2]

There are untouchables on this roster: Wily Peralta & Jimmy Nelson

 

Successful teams have a lot of talented, young controllable pitching. Peralta & Nelson are who you build around for the future, not who you deal away

 

I don't think it's good business to consider anyone on your team untouchable, particularly for a rebuilding team. That just shuts out potential opportunities. Peralta is under control for 3 more years after this one. I'm not sure that 3 years is enough time for us to even be competitive again anyway.

 

You don't WANT to sell a guy like Nelson, and obviously even in a fire sale, you're not looking to do so, but like I said, I would never say never and close the door on an option. What if we were being offered 4 top 25 prospects for Gomez and Nelson, and they insisted Nelson be part of the trade?

 

Good point.

 

I suppose I should have said that Peralta & Nelson would be the 2 players I'd least like to see traded.

 

Absolutely, agree 100%. I wouldn't dangle them out there - I'd just prefer to stay open minded about any offer, you never know. But it would be hard to part with either after how much we've struggled to develop good pitching -- I had a very hard time seeing us part with Yo (even though I believe it was the right thing).

 

That said, I'm not sold on Nelson as a future ace yet, I think he probably projects more as a middle of the rotation guy. Not that there isn't good value in that, it's likely $10M or so a year that you're not having to invest in a same caliber free agent.

[brewcrewdue80]

Nelson adding a Curveball that he can locate and is Untouchable. He's no longer at best a middle rotation guy with this 3rd true pitch of his. Seriously may be the Best SP on the team now including well over Peralta. Who's never put together that K pitch. As it stands, considering Peralta's lack of one, I think he's becoming more tradeable by the start. Someone will overpay for him in prospects. Now this is an early season reaction comment but, Give it 3months and if Peralta is still unable to K 7batters/9 and is more of a contact grinding pitcher vs Nelson still near or above 9ks/9, I think he's worth putting in trade availability. This is among the plan that with this team losing as it is, being sellers come the begin to end of July. Peralta is worthy of 2 top 100 prospects one being in the top 50 if not close to top 25. One could see a team trading a young SP talent for this proven SP in Peralta. Plus adding some other prospect of need or want for Milw. I'd watch for the Mets or the Royals to make this kind of deal. They have some Pitchers to trade and an offensive prospect to trade as well that would fit the profile where Gaining Peralta for excess talent in their minors. And secretly, there's a part of me that wonders on Pittsburgh or the Cubs making a deal to put them over the top down the stretch. And never sleep on Colorado who if healthy has lethal offense and a young prospect system swimming with talent. Go for it this year and then trade Cargo or Tulo in the offseason to get back what they've given up essentially. Meanwhile they get a Groundball type pitcher to attempt to keep the ball in Coors. What does it mean for Milw's pitching future? If we are selling off players left and right before the deadline Peralta included, you'd think a #3-4 SP would be part of the return. Maybe for next season/cash reasons to make a trade happen. With KC say one of Vargas or Guthrie or Medlen even to get a great prospect and shed a roster/money and player for them. For Colorado a Jorge De LaRosa removal. Expiring type of contracts that have 1yr or 2 left if Milw were to sell off the type of Player Peralta is and Carlos Gomez eventually. You know you hurt the present but the return on talent for the near/not to distant future is better because you took on that player's contract. Which if healthy just so happens to fill a #4/#5 SP roster space which trading Peralta would be an area of concern, moreso than it is today.

[DHonks]

I wonder if Seggy could play 3b. More importantly, would he be willing to? Could be our 3b solution for the next few years with Arcia at SS next year or late this year.

[Ennder]

I'm sorry but if you're someone who "predicted" Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, Ramirez hitting as poor as they have then you're just a pessimistic punk IMO.

 

People are results oriented to point of absolute stupidity, everyone who had a negative attitude about this team is patting their-selves on the back and saying I told you so I'm so smart because they are too short sighted to understand reality. This team is a very high variable team because their results over the past 2 years on a per player basis have just been so wildly different, they were really hard to predict and still are really hard to predict. Whether you predicted they would win 70 games or 90 games the reality is there is no way that you could know if you are right or wrong, it is just really unpredictable with this bunch.

[trwi7]

I love the way Ennder thinks he's so much smarter than the rest of us and doesn't even try to hide it.

[logan82]

Nelson adding a Curveball that he can locate and is Untouchable. He's no longer at best a middle rotation guy with this 3rd true pitch of his. Seriously may be the Best SP on the team now including well over Peralta. Who's never put together that K pitch. As it stands, considering Peralta's lack of one, I think he's becoming more tradeable by the start. Someone will overpay for him in prospects. Now this is an early season reaction comment but, Give it 3months and if Peralta is still unable to K 7batters/9 and is more of a contact grinding pitcher vs Nelson still near or above 9ks/9, I think he's worth putting in trade availability. This is among the plan that with this team losing as it is, being sellers come the begin to end of July. Peralta is worthy of 2 top 100 prospects one being in the top 50 if not close to top 25. One could see a team trading a young SP talent for this proven SP in Peralta. Plus adding some other prospect of need or want for Milw. I'd watch for the Mets or the Royals to make this kind of deal. They have some Pitchers to trade and an offensive prospect to trade as well that would fit the profile where Gaining Peralta for excess talent in their minors. And secretly, there's a part of me that wonders on Pittsburgh or the Cubs making a deal to put them over the top down the stretch. And never sleep on Colorado who if healthy has lethal offense and a young prospect system swimming with talent. Go for it this year and then trade Cargo or Tulo in the offseason to get back what they've given up essentially. Meanwhile they get a Groundball type pitcher to attempt to keep the ball in Coors. What does it mean for Milw's pitching future? If we are selling off players left and right before the deadline Peralta included, you'd think a #3-4 SP would be part of the return. Maybe for next season/cash reasons to make a trade happen. With KC say one of Vargas or Guthrie or Medlen even to get a great prospect and shed a roster/money and player for them. For Colorado a Jorge De LaRosa removal. Expiring type of contracts that have 1yr or 2 left if Milw were to sell off the type of Player Peralta is and Carlos Gomez eventually. You know you hurt the present but the return on talent for the near/not to distant future is better because you took on that player's contract. Which if healthy just so happens to fill a #4/#5 SP roster space which trading Peralta would be an area of concern, moreso than it is today.

Holy wall of text Batman. I am sure you had some good things to say but this is very difficult to read.

[JimH5]

I love the way Ennder thinks he's so much smarter than the rest of us and doesn't even try to hide it.

 

I love that, too.

 

But I'm stupid that way.