What Many Brewers Fans May Think, But Dare Not Say (Yet)

[TooLiveBrew]

My opinion of Braun stays the same. The man is a 750 guy at best, not a 950 guy. I have seen plenty of him to make that comment. He is a PED guy and save your words trying to convince me otherwise. Maybe he is hoping for the next gen of stanozolol. I dont know. I would move him to first since we are stuck with him due to that contract, and his body is now made of cheap glass.

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

[Boomer5]

My opinion of Braun stays the same. The man is a 750 guy at best, not a 950 guy. I have seen plenty of him to make that comment. He is a PED guy and save your words trying to convince me otherwise. Maybe he is hoping for the next gen of stanozolol. I dont know. I would move him to first since we are stuck with him due to that contract, and his body is now made of cheap glass.

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

 

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012.

 

Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year.

 

Look I get it, he is still a fan favorite or a villain. Personally, there is way too much money for players to not be in something. I would guess its a big percentage and not limited to Braun.

 

I am not buying the thumb issue. I know its critical to hitting and I know the thumb is always exposed in baseball. But in all the years I have watched and played baseball (my first favorite player was Jim Slaton), I cant recall a thumb injury knocking out the bulk of a season. Im sure there must have been some, but nothing comes to mind. As the church lady would suggest, the excuse seems way too convenient.

 

I am just going on what I see on the field, not my opinion of him the man. You see a 950 star, and I don't. The good news is we will see the truth on the field.

[MrTPlush]

I think you a seriously underrating Ramirez and Gennett. If Ramirez is hitting .270 and healthy he can fetch a decent prospect for a team in need of a 3B. Think Brewers back in 2011. He could fetch a 6-10 top prospect.

 

Gennett is pretty valuable himself. The fact he needs a platoon partner he is still worth a top 10 prospect too. He is more of a wildcard and depends when we trade him. Right now he has a lot of control and is very cheap.

 

Sure none of them will get a Top 100 prospect(maybe Gennett if the situation is right) but they still will bolster the farm system and you never know what those prospects could turn in to. You could get some very serviceable players out of it.

 

Seriously? No offense, but who is going to trade for Ramirez now? Five years ago, teams would have jumped on him. Hell, two or three years ago, they would have, also. But he's injury prone now, and he's said this is most likely his last season. Who is going to trade anybody decent for a less than one year rental of a player that might not even spend that whole year healthy?

 

If there is a team that has a mess like the Brewers had at 1B last year at their own 3B they would jump on Ramirez. The options to trade for mid season are typically weak at 3B and if Ramirez is putting up .270/.330 teams will come knocking. The return will largely depend on the money we would eat, his health, and production.

 

Too early to predict right now, but I don't think there is any reason no one would trade an OK prospect for him if he is healthy/producing.

[monty57]

My opinion of Braun stays the same. The man is a 750 guy at best, not a 950 guy. I have seen plenty of him to make that comment. He is a PED guy and save your words trying to convince me otherwise. Maybe he is hoping for the next gen of stanozolol. I dont know. I would move him to first since we are stuck with him due to that contract, and his body is now made of cheap glass.

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

 

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012.

 

Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year.

 

No, he's saying that you are sure he's a "750 guy at best," and I, like TLB assume you mean ".750 OPS" when you say "750 guy at best." Last year (sore thumb and all) he hit for a .777 OPS, so it's hard to believe that he is a ".750 OPS guy at best."

 

You then came back with a bit of a snarky comment using his home run totals to justify lack of production, and then shifted back to an OPS reference in your "900-950 ways" comment.

 

I personally don't know what to expect from Braun. He was injured last year, so that probably had some negative effect. Personally, I think it'll be tough to be a .950 OPS guy, as very few people ever hit that mark, and he is on the other side of 30. However, I hope that he can be a mid-to-high .800 OPS guy again. Time will tell.

[Boomer5]

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

 

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012.

 

Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year.

 

No, he's saying that you are sure he's a "750 guy at best," and I, like TLB assume you mean ".750 OPS" when you say "750 guy at best." Last year (sore thumb and all) he hit for a .777 OPS, so it's hard to believe that he is a ".750 OPS guy at best."

 

You then came back with a bit of a snarky comment using his home run totals to justify lack of production, and then shifted back to an OPS reference in your "900-950 ways" comment.

 

I personally don't know what to expect from Braun. He was injured last year, so that probably had some negative effect. Personally, I think it'll be tough to be a .950 OPS guy, as very few people ever hit that mark, and he is on the other side of 30. However, I hope that he can be a mid-to-high .800 OPS guy again. Time will tell.

 

You are banking everything on thumb excuse. I suppose its possible.

 

I did just look it up, and he did hit 777. If you honestly think that is so much better than 750, then sheesh, what can I say? At his pay, he MUST be a 900 guy for the Brewers plan to work.

 

I also looked up his splits because my comments were based on what I remember of him last year, not the actual stats. Turns out he had a tremendous April then that was that. Was it the thumb? I really doubt it but its certainly conceivable. Can you name a player losing so much production for the bulk of the season due to a thumb injury? Wasnt that also his excuse for the lack of pre suspension 2013? Then how did he mash in April 2014?

 

The Brewers have everything tied into him being a super star, 750 (or 777 if that makes you feel better about him) wont get it done.

[torts]

it stinks the brewers are 1-5 right now, but all you have to do is look at last year and see the pirates went 10-16 in April and ended up having 88 wins and a playoff game. Milwaukee would need to win 7 games to match that winning percent (8-14 for April) with 2 fewer games in the month. I THINK they can win more than 7 games in the next 3 weeks against the NL Central...

[3and2Fastball]

it stinks the brewers are 1-5 right now, but all you have to do is look at last year and see the pirates went 10-16 in April and ended up having 88 wins and a playoff game. Milwaukee would need to win 7 games to match that winning percent (8-14 for April) with 2 fewer games in the month. I THINK they can win more than 7 games in the next 3 weeks against the NL Central...

 

The Pirates have one of the best players in Baseball in McCutchen. A light years better bullpen that Milwaukee. Much better corner outfielders than the Brewers (unless you believe the "Braun is back" hype, I don't). Neil Walker is much better than Scooter, I could go on and on. They have a much better starting pitching staff too....

 

If your premise is that the Brewers going 8-14 in April is a sure sign that they can match the Pirates' 88 win season, I'm not following you

 

I think a better analogy would be that after being caught with steroids, Nelson Cruz had a 40 HR season, so we can hope for that in Braun, as being more likely, and frankly it is unlikely, too

[torts]

wait, someone other than Braun/Arod used steroids?!!?

 

my premise is that, as a pittsburgh resident and buccos fan, the world was ending last May when the Pirates went 10-16. Yes, looking at everything now, the Pirates had/have a better team, but last May few had any optimism with the team when they were 10 games back in Mid may.

[fondybrewfan]

I am willing to give them some more time; teams can go on a bad stretch and this one happens to be at the start of the year.

 

If Segura, Lind, and Davis can continue to give the team good production like they have; you have to think that once Lucroy, Braun and hopefully Ramirez gets going that the offense will pick up.

 

Regarding the pitching staff I really don't know. Peralta and Nelson were pretty good; everyone else including the bullpen has been mediocre or crappy.

[MrTPlush]

Why is everyone so negative towards Garza?...people are acting like he had a career year that he can't repeat. He had a normal year in line with what he has done over his career. I don't think there is any reason Garza can't put together a similar year. He is 31 years old not 40. You could probably argue his HR rate will go up a little, but his ERA should still float around 3.75.

[brewmann04]

this early season versus the National League central could mean a lot.

[monty57]

You are banking everything on thumb excuse. I suppose its possible.

 

You see a 950 star, and I don't.

 

No and no. I think that there is a possibility that he can be a good player again, and there's the possibility that he won't be. It's not black and white, and no one, you me or anyone else, will know that at this point. I don't think we should be stating things in absolutes when we have no way of knowing the future.

 

I certainly think that if he hit for a .777 OPS when he was injured enough that he had offseason surgery, it is probably the likely scenario that he will hit for better than a .777 OPS if the injury is fixed. Not a certainty, but probably more likely than a scenario in which he is worse after the injury is corrected. As I said, I don't think it's likely that he'll put up .950 OPS seasons going forward, as he is past his prime, but mid-.800 OPS seasons should be attainable.

 

If every positive thing about him came from PEDs, and he tested positive in 2011 and fought and won his hearing prior to 2012, then how did he hit for a .987 OPS in 2012, and .869 OPS in 2013 prior to his suspension, when he was most assuredly playing under a microscope and being tested as often as possible? Again, no one knows what the future will bring, but I think it's far from certain that Braun is completely washed up.

[Boomer5]

I sure hope you are right. The cupboard is really bare in terms of impact bats if you aren't. Throw in that crippling contract, and this will be a disaster if he isn't the player you think he is.

[torts]

this early season versus the National League central could mean a lot.

 

I just realized that this month every game besides the Colorado series is against the NL central. I dont know, has the schedule ever been that loaded with one division before? I know September typically is a month of division games, but I dont know if April is typically like that too?

[reillymcshane]

"What Many Brewers Fans May Think, But Dare Not Say (Yet)"

 

I'll dare to say it....

 

Voldemort

[torts]

"What Many Brewers Fans May Think, But Dare Not Say (Yet)"

 

I'll dare to say it....

 

Voldemort

 

SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORF

[Outlander]

What Many Brewers Fans May Think, But Dare Not Say (Yet)"

 

WE AS BREWERS FANS NEED A TORTS OPTIMISM THREAD FOR THIS SEASON!!!!!!!!

[brewcrewdue80]

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

 

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012.

 

Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year.

 

No, he's saying that you are sure he's a "750 guy at best," and I, like TLB assume you mean ".750 OPS" when you say "750 guy at best." Last year (sore thumb and all) he hit for a .777 OPS, so it's hard to believe that he is a ".750 OPS guy at best."

 

You then came back with a bit of a snarky comment using his home run totals to justify lack of production, and then shifted back to an OPS reference in your "900-950 ways" comment.

 

I personally don't know what to expect from Braun. He was injured last year, so that probably had some negative effect. Personally, I think it'll be tough to be a .950 OPS guy, as very few people ever hit that mark, and he is on the other side of 30. However, I hope that he can be a mid-to-high .800 OPS guy again. Time will tell.

 

You are banking everything on thumb excuse. I suppose its possible.

 

I did just look it up, and he did hit 777. If you honestly think that is so much better than 750, then sheesh, what can I say? At his pay, he MUST be a 900 guy for the Brewers plan to work.

 

I also looked up his splits because my comments were based on what I remember of him last year, not the actual stats. Turns out he had a tremendous April then that was that. Was it the thumb? I really doubt it but its certainly conceivable. Can you name a player losing so much production for the bulk of the season due to a thumb injury? Wasnt that also his excuse for the lack of pre suspension 2013? Then how did he mash in April 2014?

 

The Brewers have everything tied into him being a super star, 750 (or 777 if that makes you feel better about him) wont get it done.

 

Yeah. Same thumb injury or was it thumb surgery I believe. Dustin Pedroia. 787 to 712.

[MrTPlush]

So your opinion stays the same, that he's significantly worse than what he actually produced last season?

 

You thought he produced last year? 19 Hrs in 2014, 41 in 2012.

 

Yeah, it was the thumb, of course, he will be back to his usual 900-950 ways this year.

 

No, he's saying that you are sure he's a "750 guy at best," and I, like TLB assume you mean ".750 OPS" when you say "750 guy at best." Last year (sore thumb and all) he hit for a .777 OPS, so it's hard to believe that he is a ".750 OPS guy at best."

 

You then came back with a bit of a snarky comment using his home run totals to justify lack of production, and then shifted back to an OPS reference in your "900-950 ways" comment.

 

I personally don't know what to expect from Braun. He was injured last year, so that probably had some negative effect. Personally, I think it'll be tough to be a .950 OPS guy, as very few people ever hit that mark, and he is on the other side of 30. However, I hope that he can be a mid-to-high .800 OPS guy again. Time will tell.

 

You are banking everything on thumb excuse. I suppose its possible.

 

I did just look it up, and he did hit 777. If you honestly think that is so much better than 750, then sheesh, what can I say? At his pay, he MUST be a 900 guy for the Brewers plan to work.

 

I also looked up his splits because my comments were based on what I remember of him last year, not the actual stats. Turns out he had a tremendous April then that was that. Was it the thumb? I really doubt it but its certainly conceivable. Can you name a player losing so much production for the bulk of the season due to a thumb injury? Wasnt that also his excuse for the lack of pre suspension 2013? Then how did he mash in April 2014?

 

The Brewers have everything tied into him being a super star, 750 (or 777 if that makes you feel better about him) wont get it done.

 

Yeah. Same thumb injury or was it thumb surgery I believe. Dustin Pedroia. 787 to 712.

 

His whole complaint is the fact with rest it felt better, but given just a little bit of time it started messing him up. You could see this during the season after a days rest he would come back have a big game or April 2014 would be a long term rest example. He had all offseason and it lasted a lot longer healthy.

 

And how about you find someone with this same injury in the past to help your argument? This is a strange injury I have never heard of a baseball player having...I am also not a doctor and wouldn't know its effects. I looked up Pedroia's and it doesn't seems like the same injury and the surgery wasn't even remotely similar.

 

There is a lot of proof that he drastically changed his swing once the injury started and was hitting it to RF a lot. He just could not hit to LF with power.

 

I think my favorite part about the Braun debacle is all the arm chair doctors.

[monty57]

His whole complaint is the fact with rest it felt better, but given just a little bit of time it started messing him up. You could see this during the season after a days rest he would come back have a big game or April 2014 would be a long term rest example. He had all offseason and it lasted a lot longer healthy.

 

Not giving Braun and Ramirez occasional days off, and using Thornburg (until injured) and Smith nearly every day are my biggest complaints about Roenicke last year. Just as opinion, but had he given some of his key players some rest, I doubt the collapse would have been nearly as drastic. It sounds good to put the best players on the field every day, it's just not realistic, especially when dealing with injured and aging players.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ramirez now has 2 HR in his last 218 AB's going back to August 1st of last year. Much of the defense of spending an extra $10 million to bring him back centered on them having no other alternative. Really??

 

There's not much that they can do about Braun where I think the jury is still out, but they could have walked away from Ramirez and tried to find at least a cheaper place holder and didn't.

[Ennder]

Dave Cameron is always really negative on the Brewers so this isn't a surprise to me.

 

I don't have a good handle on this team because there are very few players on the team that I'm confident in projecting. They are all either coming off of injuries, haven't played 3 full seasons yet or are coming off of sub par years. It is a really hard team to project.

 

I will say that the Pirates pitching isn't certainly way better than the Brewers though. That Pirates staff could easily just be awful (so could the Brewers mind you). Liriano seems fluky and he still hasn't pitched a full season in forever, Burnett was bad last year and he is old enough that a bounce back isn't certain, Locke strikes me as a Dave Bush type who just has so little wiggle room to be good, Cole is the only sure thing for me in the rotation. The 5+ starters all have their own issues as well.

 

As for Aramis, you can make small samples say anything you want them to. His first half of 2014 was more or less a carbon copy of his good year with the Brewers. His second half was a bad July and a bad Sept but he was really good in August. Is that just 2 bad stretches in the 2nd half or is it a sign he is done? There is no way you or I or the team knows that. He is the type of guy that makes this team so hard to project. I could see anywhere from a .725 to a .850 OPS from him.

[reillymcshane]

As for Aramis, you can make small samples say anything you want them to. His first half of 2014 was more or less a carbon copy of his good year with the Brewers. His second half was a bad July and a bad Sept but he was really good in August. Is that just 2 bad stretches in the 2nd half or is it a sign he is done? There is no way you or I or the team knows that. He is the type of guy that makes this team so hard to project. I could see anywhere from a .725 to a .850 OPS from him.

I agree that A-Ram is tough to read.

 

He was bad last year after the all-star break (as John Briggs is pointing out). But he had hammy issues, spent some time on the DL. Also, he's historically a slow starter (in 2012, the year he finished with a .900 OPS, he had a .645 OPS in April).

 

I honestly don't know if A-Ram is 'done'. I've watched maybe 1.5 total games this year, so I can't really say much about how he's looked so far (when I did see him he showed a nice swing - but we're talking a couple of ABs). The numbers are bad, but 27 ABs don't make a season.

 

I don't think anyone will be shocked if he is 'done', but I won't be surprised if he finds his stroke. Maybe some of the power will be gone, but a decent BA and some modest slugging numbers aren't out of the question.

[endaround]

Ramirez's "terrible" 2nd half was a wRC+ of 98. You know, basically average. This isn't 2004 where the 3B will routinely put up an 850 OPS. Given that Headley was determined to take a below market deal to play for the Yankees and its been apparently determined that Rogers isn't a 3B there wasn't a bunch of options out there.

[monty57]

Ramirez's "terrible" 2nd half was a wRC+ of 98. You know, basically average. This isn't 2004 where the 3B will routinely put up an 850 OPS. Given that Headley was determined to take a below market deal to play for the Yankees and its been apparently determined that Rogers isn't a 3B there wasn't a bunch of options out there.

 

Yeah, relative to his career, Ramirez has been slowing down for a couple of years. Relative to the current crop of MLB 3B, that slowdown had him around average last year. Continued slowdown probably puts him below average this year, but who knows. This really just shows how good he was throughout his career, but also that everyone gets older, and eventually is out of major league baseball.

 

This is also why I thought this offseason hinged on Ramirez. He was obviously slowing down, and would be overpaid if he returned, but we weren't going to find any decent alternative if he left. We know how it played out, but I wonder if he had left if Attanasio would have used that as the sign to "play for the future," which up to this point has not been his m.o.