Still too dumb and undisciplined (Gomez) and passive (Roenicke) [See mod note in post #160]

[rickh150]

Mr. T, I'll agree with you....

If we are strictly trying to trade him this year, I can see wisdom in NOT making this a bigger issue.... But it is an issue.

[MrTPlush]

Disagree, Mr. T.... He could have grazed fingers on base instead of waiting to plop palms on base.... I dove head first into 2nd and 3rd many times.... You?

 

It doesn't matter his slide was completely fine and the right way for anyone planning on avoiding DL stints constantly. I rather him be out right there instead of being on the bench for two weeks with a broken finger.

 

Is the baserunning a problem on this team? Yes and it needs to be fixed. Part of that is likely with a new coaching staff and to address this problem in spring training. I'm not sure why you even want to mention the slide. It really isn't the problem. The problem is being halfway to 3rd on a soft pop up to the SS.

[Ennder]

Gomez has been like this through like 9 managers now between majors and minors. At some point you blame the player and not the manager.

[MrTPlush]

Gomez has been like this through like 9 managers now between majors and minors. At some point you blame the player and not the manager.

 

If you are talking to me I wasn't referring to Gomez...he is just an all out aggressive player. But the rest of the team could learn a bit and Ed Sedar really needs to go. He is always getting players into bad situations.

[rickh150]

Watching highlights and lowlights from Sat. Game vs. Twins......

Thoughts.....

I have given to much credit to Gomez's baserunning capabilities. What is the opposite of "ignitor"?

Gomez, even with his incomparable goofs, had a nice (not great) game.

 

Shaking head... Cannot be

[Nottso]

To all of you liberal, nobody does anything wrong, give him a pat on the back, " he does more good than bad, accept the bad" Brewers fans, what more does he have to do to get him to be sat down a couple of days for his stupidity.

 

This is not the place for your political fanaticism.

[rickh150]

See no evil.... Hear no evil..... Political correctness.... All is fine as long as you agree with me, right?

[superfly]

See no evil.... Hear no evil..... Political correctness.... All is fine as long as you agree with me, right?

 

We just need to better understaaaaand the mind of Carlos Gomez. It is not his fault, he's trying...he'll try harder next time not to get that crucial baserunning out in the 8th inning.

[Nottso]

See no evil.... Hear no evil..... Political correctness.... All is fine as long as you agree with me, right?

 

No, this just isn't the place for your political nonsense. It never has been, nor should it ever be. It brings absolutely nothing of value to the conversation. try the Off Topic board. I believe there's still a place for politics there.

[Invader3K]

No more talk of "political correctness" or "liberals" in this thread or it's getting locked. Those are the rules. If you want to talk politics, the BF.net Political Scene is the place. http://brewerfanpoliticalscene.yuku.com/

[rickh150]

My apologies... I didn't realize using words like "liberal" or "political correctness" during a baseball debate was out of line in this forum.

 

My stance has been, from the beginning, that the team and Gomez, in particular, have been so bad at the little things in baseball that win games and keep up morale that, at times, players should be benched, sent down, traded, or disciplined in some way. Even though it might cause waves short term, the team will be better off long term. Some, like RR and thread responders, acted like hands were tied, like Gomez should be playing every day NO MATTER WHAT Gomez chose to do. The good was better than the bad so be glad we have him.

 

Having a manager change course, like Counsell has in running less, has been a nice change. Beating ourselves with mental mistakes was getting old. Although miscues still happen, they have been happening less, in my view, on the bases.

[rickh150]

Gomez again......

Thrown out in 9th down 2

Gets kicked out on the right (and reviewed) call

Doesn't leave dugout immediately after being thrown out

 

Sickening and Sad

[trwi7]

I thought the whole thing was hilarious.

[502 to Right]

I thought the whole thing was hilarious.

 

 

I agree. If the goal is to have an undisciplined and stupid team. Hilarious.

[SomewhereInTime]

The entire thing was an embarrassment. I won't miss the baserunning mistakes after he's traded.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

[MrTPlush]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

 

It isn't the fact that he attempted the steal...but the fact he didn't have a good jump/lead and had a good chance of getting caught. With DP Lucroy coming up it wasn't the worst idea....but not something you do if have a good chance of getting caught.

 

The rest is laughably overblown because it is Gomez.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

 

It isn't the fact that he attempted the steal...but the fact he didn't have a good jump/lead and had a good chance of getting caught. With DP Lucroy coming up it wasn't the worst idea....but not something you do if have a good chance of getting caught.

 

The rest is laughably overblown because it is Gomez.

 

 

Well I read his postgame comments and he's like "I wanted to get Davis a good pitch to hit" (paraphrasing), which quite honestly doesn't make any sense.

 

As for the DP, I mean.....I get it, but not hitting into a DP is less a concern than just stupidly running into outs on the bases in the 9th inning.

 

Craig Counsell said (twice) "you cannot get thrown out there". If you're going to go, you ABSOLUTELY can not get thrown out. Gomez is now 7 for 13 on SB attempts this year. Is his speed going already? He's 29, not 39. He's never had good baserunning instincts to begin with, so when he loses a step, he's hosed. I just didn't think he'd be losing a step at 29.

[yfinn6]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

 

It isn't the fact that he attempted the steal...but the fact he didn't have a good jump/lead and had a good chance of getting caught. With DP Lucroy coming up it wasn't the worst idea....but not something you do if have a good chance of getting caught.

 

The rest is laughably overblown because it is Gomez.

 

Lucroy was hitting before Gomez last night, so although he's hit into a ton of double-plays this season, he was in no threat to ground into a game-ending double-play last night.

[logan82]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

 

It isn't the fact that he attempted the steal...but the fact he didn't have a good jump/lead and had a good chance of getting caught. With DP Lucroy coming up it wasn't the worst idea....but not something you do if have a good chance of getting caught.

 

The rest is laughably overblown because it is Gomez.

 

 

Well I read his postgame comments and he's like "I wanted to get Davis a good pitch to hit" (paraphrasing), which quite honestly doesn't make any sense.

 

As for the DP, I mean.....I get it, but not hitting into a DP is less a concern than just stupidly running into outs on the bases in the 9th inning.

 

Craig Counsell said (twice) "you cannot get thrown out there". If you're going to go, you ABSOLUTELY can not get thrown out. Gomez is now 7 for 13 on SB attempts this year. Is his speed going already? He's 29, not 39. He's never had good baserunning instincts to begin with, so when he loses a step, he's hosed. I just didn't think he'd be losing a step at 29.

I think speed and defense peak earlier than other skills. Unfortunately Gomez relies on his natural ability and has not really improved his old ballplayer skills. So much of his value is tied up in his speed and defense, he is a player who could peak early. I hope he finishes the season really well and we can get a haul for him in the offseason.

[young guns]

I can understand the thinking behind trying to steal there, but if you are going you have to know you will make it. I thought him getting thrown out was ridiculous. The staying in the dugout thing was just kinda uncomfortable.

[MrTPlush]

Why is he trying to steal when they're down 2? I really like Carlos, but after 9 years in the bigs, the fact that he still doesn't get some of these baserunning fundamental things is really mind boggling.

 

It isn't the fact that he attempted the steal...but the fact he didn't have a good jump/lead and had a good chance of getting caught. With DP Lucroy coming up it wasn't the worst idea....but not something you do if have a good chance of getting caught.

 

The rest is laughably overblown because it is Gomez.

 

Lucroy was hitting before Gomez last night, so although he's hit into a ton of double-plays this season, he was in no threat to ground into a game-ending double-play last night.

 

I swear he came after but I was following online. Must have had things backwards.

[MrTPlush]

He didn't stay in the dugout too long. Honestly it was just as long as anyone else who gets ejected. They stay to watch the manager light up and then usually stay a little bit longer before leaving.

 

The only thing different is the fact he went and got a drink very casually...which actually was pretty funny.

[1992casey]

I think speed and defense peak earlier than other skills.

 

I recall reading a long time ago that speed peaks at age 23. But brains are required for base stealing — and base running in general. Carlos Lee used to do steal, and even Prince did it occasionally. Speed just makes it easier.

[jerichoholicninja]

I can understand the thinking behind trying to steal there, but if you are going you have to know you will make it. I thought him getting thrown out was ridiculous. The staying in the dugout thing was just kinda uncomfortable.

 

That was just stupid by the umpire. From what was shown he never said a word to anyone nor looked at anyone as he walked off the field. Fine him, sure. But the ejection was totally uncalled for.