Still too dumb and undisciplined (Gomez) and passive (Roenicke) [See mod note in post #160]

[rickh150]

I've been reading http://m.brewers.mlb.com/news/article/111633252/lyle-spencer-carlos-gomez-embodies-all-out-mindset-of-brewers] and the dialogue of these undisciplined, I'm sorry, morons of players talk nonsense is too much. What's more is that RR, the MANAGER, fans the flame.

 

Now, I've been stressing this topic of stupidness for the last couple of years... Simply put, it seems to not be gaining enough traction with fans or management of this team. I'm not talking about skill or physical talent. I'm talking about unforced errors- not making the common sense plays that any co-ed softball team makes routinely.

 

Now, I'm a huge fan of the team.... Go to a bunch of games, heading to spring training, read a lot o Brewers news/ quotes and watch listen to almost all games. I AM NOT over reacting here. I'm calm and not upset with any recent results of any game. Simply put, the organization is missing the mark on what needs to be talked about and emphasized this season- wise decisions of Brewer players when playing the game of baseball.

 

A huge problem.... HUGE.... Is that our players make too many mindless plays in the field and run into too many needless outs on the bases. Being aggressive is one thing, and playing DUMB is another. There is time for trying to get that extra base (even if thrown out) and time when it is not worth the risk; a time when to chuck the guy at home and to lob it to 2b to keep the runner at first.

 

Sad to say, a couple key Brewers players are too dumb to know the difference. What's more is they talk so boastfully about being aggressive in the field or on the bases to gain a few victories over the course of a season. What I saw last year was the opposite, losing a few games on needless running errors or (Gomez) air mailing a throw home. How many times last year did guys get thrown out at 3B on a routine grounder to SS?...... Thrown out at 3rd or home for out 1?.... Caught stealing 3B (on their own) for out 3?.....Gomez chucking it over every infielder's head to try to get an out at home that simply isn't there, guy goes to 2B.Really, Gomez makes a dumb play every other day.... If we count over swinging, it's very day.

 

What is even more OUTRAGEOUS to me is the lack of talk from RR lips about how stupid his team plays at times. Call a spade a spade, dude! When are you going to clean this up? Pull a guy from a game, bench him to make a point, go nuts (there is a time for it, Ron) in a team meeting on stupidness, trade a player, praise a player for making a WISE DECISION publicly, not just an aggressive one. You are the manager. Your fault that this goes on! Don't tell me "That's Gomey". All I hear is "Not my Problem..... Can't change my star!"

 

I can stomach losing games for lack of talent. I cannot stomach losses for stupidness and passive managing problem areas.... Even more I vomit on top players' and manager's bragging attitudes of a perceived strength (aggressiveness) when it's a weakness (stupidness) holding back the team.

 

FED UP!

[rickh150]

"He's crazy out there, running into walls, stealing bases. And he can throw."-RR

 

True on all fronts.... crazy with needlessly throwing his body around (sometimes), crazy with stealing attempts (when the risk of an out is too much), and crazy when and where he throws the ball (air mail).

[rickh150]

"Ron changed my career when he turned me loose," Gomez said. "He likes us to play like that 162 games. These guys run. If you are consistent with it, guys in the field feel the pressure. They'll try to be too quick sometimes and make errors.

"For me, it's the way I do things. I can't slow down. It's me -- in the outfield, on the bases, at the plate. My kid [Yandel] is only 5 years old, and he's already just like me." - Gomez

 

Huge issues with his statements.... foolishness to me to be proud of his moronic aggressiveness, an obvious weakness to the common observer. Being aggressive is great. Being over-aggressive and needlesslly careless is dumb baseball. As a team leader, to say these things proudly, undermining the whole team culture.............. beyond dumb.

 

Ever hear these things out of Giants or Cardinals camp????

[pacopete4]

"Ron changed my career when he turned me loose," Gomez said. "He likes us to play like that 162 games. These guys run. If you are consistent with it, guys in the field feel the pressure. They'll try to be too quick sometimes and make errors.

"For me, it's the way I do things. I can't slow down. It's me -- in the outfield, on the bases, at the plate. My kid [Yandel] is only 5 years old, and he's already just like me." - Gomez

 

Huge issues with his statements.... foolishness to me to be proud of his moronic aggressiveness, an obvious weakness to the common observer. Being aggressive is great. Being over-aggressive and needlesslly careless is dumb baseball. As a team leader, to say these things proudly, undermining the whole team culture.............. beyond dumb.

 

Ever hear these things out of Giants or Cardinals camp????

 

 

There are plenty of ways to manage a ball club. People always telling Gomez what to do and when to do it wasn't working. Since he has been allowed to be himself, he has flourished into one of the best outfielders in game defensively and offensively. He plays the game like a kid. I respect that about him and wish more did.

[jerichoholicninja]

rickh150=preacher

Brewerfan.net=choir

 

There's a lot of things I don't like about Ron but this tops them all. Overall in his time in Milwaukee the baserunning has been disgusting, the defense atrocious, and plate discipline non-existent. A total lack of fundamentals and seemingly non effort to change that.

[Thurston Fluff]

Why complain about turning a career underachiever into one of the best center fielders in the game toady?

[DHonks]

This is a dumb complaint. Gomez wins far more games with his style than he loses. Yes, he can drive us crazy. At least he's a good player now. Remember when he was crappy and rarely ever won games for us? If his offense/defense wins us more games than it loses (which it does) then I'll take it.

[fondybrewfan]

Yeah this complaint doesn't make much sense to me. Without his aggressive we would never have gotten to the see the good Gomez. He forever would have been that guy with all the talent that never could put it together. Gomez was one of the very best CF's in the game last year and RR letting him loose no doubt contributed to that. Gomez only plays at one speed and I am glad for one that he does; he is a tremendous source of energy and a heck of a player.

[owbc]

It's interesting to me that Gomez gets labeled "dumb" while Roenicke is "passive". It seems to me that Gomez is mostly just following instructions.

 

I'm not sure the exact reason why he takes so much of the blame for the issues with baseball fundamentals. Especially considering he's been the best centerfielder in baseball over the past two seasons.

[SRB]

Gomez is a plus baserunner. The numbers support the argument that his aggressiveness has a net positive effect that outweighs the occasional inning-ending groaner. From 2012-2014, Gomez has the eleventh highest BsR according to Fangraphs (+15.7 runs from his base running). Arguably he could improve on that if he was an infallible deity who never made mistakes, but calling him dumb seems a little strange.

 

It's sort of like how most players will strike out a lot if they try to hit a lot of home runs, but that's not a bad thing if you actually hit a lot of home runs. Gomez stretches a lot of plays for an extra base and thus the times when he gets caught in a run-down are just a necessary side effect.

 

As for his errant throws, the criticism that Carlos Gomez is a poor defender is a new one to me.

[jerichoholicninja]

Everyone is focusing too much on Gomez. Yes, he would pretty much be a nobody if it wasn't for the coaching staff "unleashing" him and in the end his aggressive mistakes probably even out with his aggressive successes. However, he's not the only one. How many runners were tagged out at 3B on balls hit to the SS last year? Too many. I remember guys like Ramirez and Lucroy running into those outs. Those are guys who know better.

[yfinn6]

Elian Herrera - as of today - is still a part of this team. He's #1 (in my eyes) for the player who makes the worst outs on the bases. It's not really fair, but I just remember him making bad outs in terrible situations in 2014; even though it was a spring game I saw him get picked off once already in 2015. I think I had flashbacks. The guy is versatile but man he is frustrating to watch at times.

[3and2Fastball]

Gomez is the least of the Brewers' problems, and I mean that literally

[Outlander]

All I have to do is read the title of the thread and realize this is going to be a pretty bad topic that goes nowhere. Calling Gomez dumb is pretty dumb in my opinion.

[JohnBriggs12]

Elian Herrera - as of today - is still a part of this team. He's #1 (in my eyes) for the player who makes the worst outs on the bases. It's not really fair, but I just remember him making bad outs in terrible situations in 2014; even though it was a spring game I saw him get picked off once already in 2015. I think I had flashbacks. The guy is versatile but man he is frustrating to watch at times.

 

Herrara has about the same chance as I do of making the opening day roster thankfully barring serious injuries to Jimenez or Hector Gomez.

[fondybrewfan]

Elian Herrera - as of today - is still a part of this team. He's #1 (in my eyes) for the player who makes the worst outs on the bases. It's not really fair, but I just remember him making bad outs in terrible situations in 2014; even though it was a spring game I saw him get picked off once already in 2015. I think I had flashbacks. The guy is versatile but man he is frustrating to watch at times.

 

Herrara has about the same chance as I do of making the opening day roster thankfully barring serious injuries to Jimenez or Hector Gomez.

 

Too bad Matt Clark isn't right handed otherwise he would be playing himself into a backup 1B and OF spot as well. Little to no chance Herrera makes the team.

[dlk9s]

A few games into spring training and there's already a thread griping about a problem that might not even be a problem. Good one.

[Bombers]

Ya, I just don't get this thread. While I will be the first to bash RRR for inserting Kotsay over Gomez in the NLCS, I certainly can't bash him for "unleashing" Gomez. A career under achiever who was ran out of town in not only New York, but in a small market like Minnesota (who would at least keep him on for his D) was completely brought to life by RRR in Milwaukee. You may be frustrated by his all out approach, but he isn't the first good (nor the last good one) to irk his coach/fans. I know it's a different sport but Favre irked Holmgren all the time and the fans with his boneheaded plays, but I wouldn't have traded him for anyone. I am pretty high on GoGo too. He isn't the reason this team fails. I actually like his passion and intensity. Something many fans have complained of (Brewers lack of fire) over the years really shines through with him. Many criticized Hart, Weeks, Hardy for not showing much "passion" - but now we are going to throw one of the top CF's in baseball under the bus because he plays to hard and makes a few mistakes? .... I am really baffled at this one. Keep doing what you do GoGo.

[clancyphile]

Of all the things to complain about with regards to the Brewers... Carlos Gomez becoming one of the best CF in baseball ranks super-low on the list.

 

Now, when the front office lets Gomez get away via free agency... THEN we can complain.

[jerichoholicninja]

Everyone needs to re-read the original post. Yes, it mentions Gomez but the point is that the whole team has been making bone headed mistakes under Ron's watch and Ron seems to be encouraging it under the guise of "being aggressive."

[yfinn6]

Elian Herrera - as of today - is still a part of this team. He's #1 (in my eyes) for the player who makes the worst outs on the bases. It's not really fair, but I just remember him making bad outs in terrible situations in 2014; even though it was a spring game I saw him get picked off once already in 2015. I think I had flashbacks. The guy is versatile but man he is frustrating to watch at times.

 

Herrara has about the same chance as I do of making the opening day roster thankfully barring serious injuries to Jimenez or Hector Gomez.

 

Too bad Matt Clark isn't right handed otherwise he would be playing himself into a backup 1B and OF spot as well. Little to no chance Herrera makes the team.

 

Looks like I'll have to find a new whipping boy.

[dlk9s]

[Thurston Fluff]

Everyone needs to re-read the original post. Yes, it mentions Gomez but the point is that the whole team has been making bone headed mistakes under Ron's watch and Ron seems to be encouraging it under the guise of "being aggressive."

 

You might want to reread the thread title. I seriously doubt Roenicke encourages making boneheaded mistakes. I think he puts up with it because he wants them to play a certain way and is willing to take the good with the bad. This team is made up of players who are aggressive. They will make mistakes. Especially in early March.

[pacopete4]

Agreed. I can understand it not being the style of play you would like to see happen but again, there are more ways to play this game than some want to admit. Gomez is electric and yes, stupid at times. But for the most part, his positives way outweigh his handful of base running mistakes he is going to make. Honestly, without Elian Herrera last season, our base running was just fine and we put a lot of pressure on teams by doing it.

[TURBO]

Everyone needs to re-read the original post. Yes, it mentions Gomez but the point is that the whole team has been making bone headed mistakes under Ron's watch and Ron seems to be encouraging it under the guise of "being aggressive."

 

Agreed, that is also what I took out of it...I think Gomez was just one example, not the entire point...