Aramis Ramirez: "I don't think I'll play after this year."

[clancyphile]

Braun would be a disaster at 3B. I don't know what to expect from Aramis this year. He had 3 awful months, 2 great months and a pretty average month. Just seems like a streaky year rather than him being 'finished' like people want to make it out to be.

 

If it is the Braun of 2007-2012, I dispute that he'd be a disaster. We'd be having a guy who lead the league in SLG twice and OPS twice, and whose average OPS over those six years was .943. With the 2007-2012 version of Braun, I can live with 26+ errors at third base. I think, in this case, the bat largely outweighs the defensive issues.

[pete]

Braun should play shortstop, and i mean it... for one inning in a blow out.

 

Clancyphile I"d guess you're wrong, but maybe i am. It'd be interesting to see a reel of all his defensive plays at 3rd. I can remember a couple going through the wickets, but my recollection is that a lot were throwing errors. When he had time, he'd do that double crow hop and then launch the ball over 1st.

[jerichoholicninja]

Braun should play shortstop, and i mean it... for one inning in a blow out.

 

The guy was a starting shortstop at a very good D1 school. I just can't understand how he was such a disaster at 3rd.

[Ennder]

Braun would be a disaster at 3B. I don't know what to expect from Aramis this year. He had 3 awful months, 2 great months and a pretty average month. Just seems like a streaky year rather than him being 'finished' like people want to make it out to be.

 

If it is the Braun of 2007-2012, I dispute that he'd be a disaster. We'd be having a guy who lead the league in SLG twice and OPS twice, and whose average OPS over those six years was .943. With the 2007-2012 version of Braun, I can live with 26+ errors at third base. I think, in this case, the bat largely outweighs the defensive issues.

 

Braun was one of the worst defensive 3B in the history of the game. Assuming his 3 year average for offense he would be a below average player once you add in his defense at 3B. If anything he is a future at 1B but playing him at 3B is a complete waste.

[SoupTown]

Nice short interview on MLB network from the locker room. My guy says he will be really relaxed and happy. My guess is relaxed and happy = a good year. Also, ARam himself said he would have a good year if he played 140-145 games. He said 'I will be 37 this summer, so I cant play all games' (I paraphrase a little). And he said RRR is good at knowing this. So he does not like to sit, but he will sit these games. I guess he will be the DH in the interleague games.

 

And I do not see ANY problem for 3rd base for next year. Jimenez across AAA and MLB was .796 OPS last year. Rogers across AA and AAA and MLB was .846 OPS. Rogers D was not good with his first year at 3rd (from 1st bast). So let Jason just spend the year as the AAA third baseman and see what you have. Let Clark play 1st at AAA. One may even learn that Rogers is our first baseman after Lind.

 

In short, a relaxed ARam likely has a good final year. And 2016 will be fine with Jimenez being average or average+ at league min $.

[pete]

I think a healthy Aram will be just fine. I can't see him Cadillacing it. Maybe his comments are related to RR planning on not overusing his starters (crosses fingers).

 

Earlier when I wanted to check my memory of Jimenez' defense, I came across this post:

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/4/16/4231434/prospect-of-the-day-luis-jimenez-3b-los-angeles-angels

 

He quotes his own comments from his book:

 

I can't shake the feeling that something will click when he's 26 or 27, he'll take his game to the next level, and emerge as one of those surprise older prospects who "comes out of nowhere" and suddenly makes noise in the majors. Grade C+.

 

Perhaps most importantly, Melvin seems excited about him so I'd guess he'll get a real shot. Rogers, I'm not so sure. He's never mentioned as a possibility for anything. When he got a September call up it turned out that Seid had been lobbying for the promotion. I can't help but wonder if he's doomed to be Melvin's emergency backup if all else fails, buried at AAA till he's contractually free to leave.

[logan82]

I don't think he can play full time anymore. That seemed fairly clear last year and was one of the big concerns when he originally signed with us.

[tomwopat]

Who was the last Brewers to do a farewell tour and still be somewhat productive? I'm struggling to think of anyone...

[BrewBalls]

Can Zobrist handle 3B? I know he normally plays, 2B, SS or in the OF but he seems like a versitile player who would fit in somewhere on the roster. He will be turning 35 in 2016 and could be had on a 3 year deal. Maybe 3yrs/$33M gets it done. He is just the type of high OBP. low strikeout guy to fits nicely in the leadoff or 2 hole. This move would allow some time for either Gatewood or Lara to develop.

[pete]

Dustin Demuth is bright and was a 3 sport athlete. Has there ever been any chatter as to why he did so poorly his first season?

[clancyphile]

If it is the Braun of 2007-2012, I dispute that he'd be a disaster. We'd be having a guy who lead the league in SLG twice and OPS twice, and whose average OPS over those six years was .943. With the 2007-2012 version of Braun, I can live with 26+ errors at third base. I think, in this case, the bat largely outweighs the defensive issues.

 

Braun was one of the worst defensive 3B in the history of the game. Assuming his 3 year average for offense he would be a below average player once you add in his defense at 3B. If anything he is a future at 1B but playing him at 3B is a complete waste.

 

The 2013-2014 Braun would be a waste. However, the 2007-2012 Braun would still, I think be one of the best overall third basemen in the majors. In 2007, he had 26 errors in 112 games. That's one error ever 4.3 games. If he goes back to the 2007-2012 form, how is that suddenly something that can't be lived with?

 

It comes down to whether or not you can deal with three errors every two weeks from what was the best bat at the hot corner in 2007. I think that's more than acceptable.

[TooLiveBrew]

If it is the Braun of 2007-2012, I dispute that he'd be a disaster. We'd be having a guy who lead the league in SLG twice and OPS twice, and whose average OPS over those six years was .943. With the 2007-2012 version of Braun, I can live with 26+ errors at third base. I think, in this case, the bat largely outweighs the defensive issues.

 

Braun was one of the worst defensive 3B in the history of the game. Assuming his 3 year average for offense he would be a below average player once you add in his defense at 3B. If anything he is a future at 1B but playing him at 3B is a complete waste.

 

The 2013-2014 Braun would be a waste. However, the 2007-2012 Braun would still, I think be one of the best overall third basemen in the majors. In 2007, he had 26 errors in 112 games. That's one error ever 4.3 games. If he goes back to the 2007-2012 form, how is that suddenly something that can't be lived with?

 

It comes down to whether or not you can deal with three errors every two weeks from what was the best bat at the hot corner in 2007. I think that's more than acceptable.

It wasn't not just dealing with errors. It was dealing with a guy completely unfit to play the 3B position in MLB. His arm accuracy was awful, his instincts were awful, and just overall yes he was one of the worst players to ever line up regularly at 3B in the history of MLB.

 

I don't know if time has just softened people's memories or what... but Braun was irreparably bad at 3B -- I struggle to think of a relevant-to-baseball negative descriptor that wouldn't be appropriate to describe how poor he was. He has finally improved to the point where he's a pretty solid outfielder, & I think we should be very happy & content with that from him, defensively.

[clancyphile]

It wasn't not just dealing with errors. It was dealing with a guy completely unfit to play the 3B position in MLB. His arm accuracy was awful, his instincts were awful, and just overall yes he was one of the worst players to ever line up regularly at 3B in the history of MLB.

 

I don't know if time has just softened people's memories or what... but Braun was irreparably bad at 3B -- I struggle to think of a relevant-to-baseball negative descriptor that wouldn't be appropriate to describe how poor he was. He has finally improved to the point where he's a pretty solid outfielder, & I think we should be very happy & content with that from him, defensively.

 

This is not a case of time softening memories. I was kinda in favor of keeping Braun at third from the get-go, even with the .895 FP and the three errors every two weeks. Probably the most vocal about keeping him at the hot corner. Maybe the defense was a small minus, but the bat of the 2007-2012 Braun is a plus the size of Cleveland.

 

In any case, it'd have been easier to find an outfielder who could deliver an .850 OPS than it is to find a third baseman who does that. And Braun's OPS over those six years was .943. The Brewers took a heavy offensive downgrade at third base.

[Ennder]

It wasn't not just dealing with errors. It was dealing with a guy completely unfit to play the 3B position in MLB. His arm accuracy was awful, his instincts were awful, and just overall yes he was one of the worst players to ever line up regularly at 3B in the history of MLB.

 

I don't know if time has just softened people's memories or what... but Braun was irreparably bad at 3B -- I struggle to think of a relevant-to-baseball negative descriptor that wouldn't be appropriate to describe how poor he was. He has finally improved to the point where he's a pretty solid outfielder, & I think we should be very happy & content with that from him, defensively.

 

This is not a case of time softening memories. I was kinda in favor of keeping Braun at third from the get-go, even with the .895 FP and the three errors every two weeks. Probably the most vocal about keeping him at the hot corner. Maybe the defense was a small minus, but the bat of the 2007-2012 Braun is a plus the size of Cleveland.

 

In any case, it'd have been easier to find an outfielder who could deliver an .850 OPS than it is to find a third baseman who does that. And Braun's OPS over those six years was .943. The Brewers took a heavy offensive downgrade at third base.

 

I just disagree then. Braun might honestly have been the worst player to ever play 3B in MLB history, he was seriously that awful at it. Add in the extra chance to get hurt playing on the IF and it just makes no sense at all to try him at 3B ever again. 1B I get, 3B just no thanks, waste of talent.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

This is not a case of time softening memories. I was kinda in favor of keeping Braun at third from the get-go, even with the .895 FP and the three errors every two weeks. Probably the most vocal about keeping him at the hot corner. Maybe the defense was a small minus, but the bat of the 2007-2012 Braun is a plus the size of Cleveland.

 

In any case, it'd have been easier to find an outfielder who could deliver an .850 OPS than it is to find a third baseman who does that. And Braun's OPS over those six years was .943. The Brewers took a heavy offensive downgrade at third base.

 

You're assuming that Braun's defensive inefficiencies start and end with errors committed. He had terrible reflexes, poor range, and just fielded the position awfully. It wasn't just the errors, it was also the balls he never touched. As many people as have mentioned it, I don't think it can be overstated. Braun was, literally, possibly the worst fielding third baseman in the modern history of the game. His defensive atrociousness almost wiped out his offensive contribution. For Braun to be a positive contributor if he plays third base, he would have to post a 1.000+ OPS, and honestly, I think that ship has sailed.

[superfly]

 

I think there is something to thinking you're done already. Hunger is lost or this wouldn't be creeping into his mind the first week of spring training. Maybe I'm wrong and hope that I am but it sounds like a player that's here collecting his large pay check and not fully into this. I have a lot of respect for him and hope he comes out firing.

 

 

To the contrary, he knows its his last shot at a World Series.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ramirez doubts his own ability to continue play at a high level. From July 1st on last year he had 79 hits, 61 of which were singles and that's your cleanup hitter? Some of the rationalizing by fans is simply amazing. Athletes know when their bodies won't let them do the things they once took for granted. Ramirez is at that point. He's probably almost embarrassed to be collecting enormous paychecks so announcing his likely plans know eases that some.

[Ennder]

Ramirez doubts his own ability to continue play at a high level. From July 1st on last year he had 79 hits, 61 of which were singles and that's your cleanup hitter? Some of the rationalizing by fans is simply amazing. Athletes know when their bodies won't let them do the things they once took for granted. Ramirez is at that point. He's probably almost embarrassed to be collecting enormous paychecks so announcing his likely plans know eases that some.

 

And yet before July 1st he was exactly the same as he was the year before. The be so sure he is just done based on half a season is just foolish. Most players don't fall off a cliff unless they get hurt, it is almost always a gradual decline. We have no clue what to expect from him but it is just as likely he is back to an .800ish OPS as anything else.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Ramirez is closing out a really nice career. He's going to end up around 2300 hits, 1400 RBI, and close to 400 homers. He's pretty darn comparable to Ron Santo offensively. If only he had been passable with the glove, we'd possibly be talking about his chances of getting into the Hall.

[pacopete4]

Ramirez is closing out a really nice career. He's going to end up around 2300 hits, 1400 RBI, and close to 400 homers. He's pretty darn comparable to Ron Santo offensively. If only he had been passable with the glove, we'd possibly be talking about his chances of getting into the Hall.

 

And when we will the World Series this season, he'll have a ring to add to that glorious career.

[monty57]

I think Ramirez and Braun both would've benefited from more days off last year, but Roenicke put them in the lineup every day. Maybe this early announcement will be a not-so-subtle hint to Roenicke to give him some rest. I do wonder whether Ramirez would have retired if the Brewers didn't exercise their end of the option, or if he would have sought out a one-year deal elsewhere.

 

As to the near-term future at 3B, I think Jimenez is the heir-apparent. He's supposed to be excellent with the glove, so if he can hit MLB pitching he should at least be adequate. I believe he's out of options, so he should be the backup corner IF this season, giving him a shot to prove himself.

[Outlander]

I do not see Jimenez as the heir apparent to Ramirez. Even if the Brewers did a complete rebuild in 2016 I would rather them trade for a younger third baseman. Can't see Jimenez ever hitting at a level that would justify him being a starting third baseman in the majors. As a backup he might do okay as a power righty off the bench that can give Ramirez a day off here or there.

[monty57]

I do not see Jimenez as the heir apparent to Ramirez. Even if the Brewers did a complete rebuild in 2016 I would rather them trade for a younger third baseman. Can't see Jimenez ever hitting at a level that would justify him being a starting third baseman in the majors. As a backup he might do okay as a power righty off the bench that can give Ramirez a day off here or there.

 

I could definitely see them targeting someone else, but what I meant was that with the current franchise make-up, he and Rogers are pretty much the only options. Between those two, Jimenez can play the position well, while we don't know if Rogers has the glove for third. They'll have a lot of money coming off the books after 2015 (Ramirez, Broxton, Lohse, Parra), but it looks like they will have a lot of holes to fill. A lot can happen between now and then, but it would be nice if Jimenez could put together a good season this year and prove himself worthy of manning 3B in 2016.

 

Longer term, I assume some of our young SS's will be transitioned to 3B.

[Jenkins5]

My comment one Lara was more a combo of sarcasm and wishful thinking. If he moved quick (which Brewers don't ever do really) this year at age 17 he could reach Wisconsin at some point. In 2016 He could reach AA at age 18. In 2017 AA/AAA September call up at 19. That is if he is the real deal, next Miguel Cabrera, tearing cover off ball hit after hit, super aggressive approach.

 

Realistically

2016: (17) Rookie ball, May reach Wisconsin

2017: (18) Wisconsin maybe reach BC

2018: (19) BC/Biloxi

2019: (20) Biloxi/Colorado Springs

2020: (21) Colorado Springs/Milwaukee

2022: (22) Full-Time Starter for Brewers

 

Brewers are really hoping Jimenez is next Casey McGehee it appears. Honestly, I would not mind a:

2B Gennett

SS Sadinas

3B Segura

 

You lose a lot of pop in the short term however if Segura bounces back, Scooter stays Scooter, and Sadinas stays a high average slap hitter, that's three guys who can hit around .300 and steal some bases to help the team out. More realistically, they will make a trade as they did for Lind to find some to fill spot if Jimenez doesn't pan out.

[SRB]

Possible pre-2016 trade targets (i.e. 3B in teams' top 10 prospects this season)

 

Jomar Reyes, BAL (too young)

Rafael Devers, BOS (too young)

Garin Cecchini, BOS

Miguel Andujar, NYY (too young)

Trey Michalczewski, CHW (too young)

Hunter Dozier, KCR

Miguel Sano, MIN (too expensive)

Colin Moran, HOU

Rio Ruiz, HOU (too young)

Matt Chapman, OAK (too young)

Renato Nunez, OAK(too young)

DJ Peterson, SEA

Patrick Kivlehan, SEA

Joey Gallo, TEX (too expensive)

Ryan Rua, TEX

Kyle Kubitza, ATL

Brian Anderson, MIA (too young)

Maikel Franco, PHI(too expensive)

Drew Ward, WAS (too young)

Kris Bryant, CHC (too expensive)

Ryan McMahon, COL (too young)

Fernando Perez, SDP (too young)

Yasmany Tomas, ARI (too expensive)

Jake Lamb, ARI

Brandon Drury, ARI