Yoan Moncada

[Mass Haas]

Probably the reason no one has posted a Yoan Moncada thread yet is that the pipedream is such a longshot going against the MLB big boys.

 

Just noting here the Brewers (apparently) have held a private workout with the 19-year-old Cuban.

 

Not familiar? Plenty on the web for you, including this recent entry.

[DR28]

I just read this... Man would be nice but I'm sure we have no shot.

 

Kid is supposed to be the real deal.

[superfly]

Yes please sir, and thank you very much.

[DR28]

Yes please sir, and thank you very much.

 

Don't get your hopes up... Unless we get really, really, really lucky, Yoan won't be playing in Milwaukee.

[reillymcshane]

They're talking a $30-40 million signing bonus for Moncada - plus you'd have to pay a 100% tax for going over the international signing limit - that means he's a $60-80 million investment. And there's some speculation the bonus could go towards $50 million - making it a $100 million signing.

 

It's fun to think about it, but there's almost no way we even get involved in this.

[paul253]

Two words: International Draft. It's kind of BS that this guy can hold out for the most lucrative offer when other players are subject to the draft rules. This guy is going to make tens of millions of dollars more because of where he was born. And probably 20-25 teams automatically have no shot at signing him just because of financial issues.

[reillymcshane]

Two words: International Draft. It's kind of BS that this guy can hold out for the most lucrative offer when other players are subject to the draft rules. This guy is going to make tens of millions of dollars more because of where he was born. And probably 20-25 teams automatically have no shot at signing him just because of financial issues.

Perfectly said. The international market for these guys is crazy. I have no problem with established guys - like Jose Abreu - being treated as free agents, but the rules on the younger guys is just warped.

[Bombers]

Two words: International Draft. It's kind of BS that this guy can hold out for the most lucrative offer when other players are subject to the draft rules. This guy is going to make tens of millions of dollars more because of where he was born. And probably 20-25 teams automatically have no shot at signing him just because of financial issues.

This. Well said Paul. I just get slightly irritated when I see these large international players (A) signing huge deals and (B) basically eliminating 20 teams out the gate because they can't afford them. And just like you said, all because of where they were born.

 

Case and point

US Born Player - On June 19, 2013 - Mark Appel (2013 #1 pick), signed with the Astros for a $6.35 million signing bonus.

Non-US Born Player - On October 29, 2013, the White Sox sign Jose Abreu for a six-year $68 million deal. The 26-year-old received a $10 million signing bonus and earned $7 million in 2014 and 2015 (Then $10 million in 2016, $10.5 million in 2017, $11.5 million in 2018 and $12 million in 2019.)

 

It is simply ridiculous to allow the international market to be the wild wild west.

[fondybrewfan]

It boggles my mind that any team would be willing to essentially pay $100 Million for a 19 year old kid. Its not like he has a track record against really good competition like Dice K for example. Paying that kind of money for this kid would be a pretty huge gamble.

[pogokat]

Jose Abreu was different---that was a free agent contract.

 

Now, your beef about Appel vs. Moncada is completely legit. It makes you wonder if the Yankees or whoever signs Moncada would dish out 100 million for the #1 pick in the draft, if they ever had it.

[jerichoholicninja]

Jose Abreu was different---that was a free agent contract.

 

Now, your beef about Appel vs. Moncada is completely legit. It makes you wonder if the Yankees or whoever signs Moncada would dish out 100 million for the #1 pick in the draft, if they ever had it.

 

The draft spending limits keep teams from spending that much on draft picks but I doubt any team would seeing as draft picks can only negotiate with one team. These foreign players, whether considered international free agents or not, can negotiate with anyone and that drives the price up.

[narwhalattack]

It makes sense that they're at least taking a look at him, but I doubt that they'll come even close to signing him. More likely that either the Yankees, the Red Sox, or even the Cubs sign him.

[SRB]

This is very intriguing. It's not like the Brewers are just "interested" (I'm sure every team is in that respect...) but they're a surprising inclusion in the list of teams holding private workouts: Brewers, Rangers, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox, and Padres. Given the Padres Renaissance those are all major players/spenders who one would normally consider frontrunners. I feel like the Brewers wouldn't be on the list if they weren't somewhat serious about making a large offer. Obviously they are still huge long shots to be able to afford him.

 

Hope Mark A is feeling generous with his pocketbook this year!

[BrewersAA]

The brewers have clearly made the international market a priority over the last 2-3 years. I'm with SRB that they have actual real interest, I am not saying that they are likely to sign him, but i believe they are more than kicking the tires.

 

None of us have even a clue what this kids talent is like, and i bet the brewers do. Lets say they think hes comparable to Mike Trout, I would think the brewers would be very interested in spending 100 mil + on mike trout. What, to me, would be 'sexy' to the brewers about this potential signing is that they cant lure that level of talent to milwaukee because of the market size and endorsement opportunity in most cases, but with the international signing guys im not sure thats nearly the factor, for them i think its all about $$. So, if he is indeed what they think is super super star level talent, 100mil would actually be worth it for the brewers as they dont generally have a shot at that type of talent for many other reasons.

 

Again, i dont think its likely, and they probably have the lowest odds of the teams involved, but i think there is maybe a little more to it with their interest.

[fondybrewfan]

Its one thing to be interested in Moncada and believe he's worth paying $100 Million for; its quite another to actually have $100 Million to do it. I for one don't think the Brewers have anywhere near that amount of cash laying around. Mark A would be nuts to take money out of his other businesses to fund this too; talk about a very likely poor return on investment.

[pacopete4]

It just doesn't sound feasible for the Brewers to sign this guy. Now, if we had Dodger or Yankee money, then I could see taking a stab at the "next great thing." But I just cannot see the Brewers sinking a bunch of money into such an unproven guy. We need to draft and develop talent, bring them up and have success and then sign them like we did with Luc and Braun. Then you can mix in some of the "past their prime" free agents like Aram and compete.

[3and2Fastball]

I've heard him described as a "switch-hitting version of Robinson Cano", except that Moncada has shown much more patience at the plate, walking a lot more than Cano....

 

yes please thank you very much

[SRB]

Its one thing to be interested in Moncada and believe he's worth paying $100 Million for; its quite another to actually have $100 Million to do it. I for one don't think the Brewers have anywhere near that amount of cash laying around. Mark A would be nuts to take money out of his other businesses to fund this too; talk about a very likely poor return on investment.

 

I think the only thing they have to pay upfront is the overage penalty to MLB for exceeding the international spending cap. I'm not saying this would be wise, but the payroll commitments drop to $49M next season (plus first year arbitration raises), so I imagine the organization could earmark the revenue to pay the penalty this summer and then spread the actual bonus to Moncado over a few seasons. The result would be we don't sign any major free agents next season and have a bit of a patchwork MLB roster (arguably only a major issue regarding 3B and A-Ram leaving).

[Warning Track Power]

Probably the reason no one has posted a Yoan Moncada thread yet is that the pipedream is such a longshot going against the MLB big boys.

 

Honestly...I am getting very tired of the discrepancies in the Brewers/Pirates/Royals ability to sign players of this ilk versus the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers. The ideas that pace of play and lack of offense in baseball are the reason why fan support is down versus the NFL and other sports is moronic and completely ignoring the real reason. The fact that the best player in the NFL plays in Green Bay and the top two players in the NBA play in Cleveland and Oklahoma City speaks volumes as to why the popularity in those leagues is rising while baseball needs to reinvent itself with pitch clocks and the potential banning of defensive strategies to attract more fans to this game.

 

Balance the salary structure and you might be surprised that you have to do little to nothing else to attract the casual fan, Mr. Manfred.

[SRB]

Probably the reason no one has posted a Yoan Moncada thread yet is that the pipedream is such a longshot going against the MLB big boys.

 

Honestly...I am getting very tired of the discrepancies in the Brewers/Pirates/Royals ability to sign players of this ilk versus the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers. The ideas that pace of play and lack of offense in baseball are the reason why fan support is down versus the NFL and other sports is moronic and completely ignoring the real reason. The fact that the best player in the NFL plays in Green Bay and the top two players in the NBA play in Cleveland and Oklahoma City speaks volumes as to why the popularity in those leagues is rising while baseball needs to reinvent itself with pitch clocks and the potential banning of defensive strategies to attract more fans to this game.

 

Balance the salary structure and you might be surprised that you have to do little to nothing else to attract the casual fan, Mr. Manfred.

 

The international spending cap in particular is a big joke because it actually gives a bigger advantage to rich teams than if it didn't exist, given that the main penalty is just having to spend more money. I guess it keeps spending down on more run-of-the-mill talents, but small market teams could get those players in a bidding war anyways. When there is a big talent on the market, small market teams are priced out and the only real effect is that the player gets screwed (and the league gets $$$)

[brewcrewdue80]

OMG....So mad

I wrote one of my long rants regarding this and hit a random button and it all was erased. Such a big subject to talk about. I'll just go with what I was writing...

 

Moncada is being compared as a likely #1 pick in 2015 draft if he were a part of it. He's being offered 40mil in a signing bonus at age 19.

 

How? Stephen Strasburg who w/o spending limits in 2009 signed a 4/15.2mil as a #1 selection. So far in his Professional career spanning 5 years he's made 17.65mil. He's set to earn 7.4mil in 2015. So total at age 26 Strasburg will have made 40.25mil. The exact same bonus amount Moncada is reportedly being offered at age 19. Nevermind the penalty making him 80mil in cost. Moncada w/o playing any MLB will sign as a #1 talent/ the exact amount MLB's #1 pick in 2009 has earned by them age 19 through 26. Strasburg having 5(4 really) years of MLB playing experience performing well to #1 pick talent.

 

How? is that possible? Who here for 2015 would want Moncada over Strasburg on the Brewers? Yet here's this 19yr old about to make more money than heck how about Carlos Gomez his entire career? And he's never played 1 pitch of MLB Pro Ball. And the Bonus doesn't limit Moncada from making what Gomez or Strasburg went through with the 6years of team control contract. He makes the ML roster thats 500k+ more for him. He hits Arb he can command what history shows he should command. He's being given 2 FAs contract periods essentially before he likely even reaches 28. It's just absurd.

 

The Astros btw had 5mil as a team pool in 2014. Hes being tied to 40mil 8 times the max a team could spend at the base pool. Carlos Rodon was the highest paid draftee in 2014 6.582mil.

 

I just don't see why Moncada can sign for anything more than 8mil. Wouldn't have a big problem with this if that was what we were discussing but 40mil? 5 times that?

How? How can he command that? How can MLB allow that...oh maybe because the tax goes to the Commissioner's office to be "used" to better International Activities. Reads more like/ here's hush/hush money to look the other way at the absurdity of this.

[pacopete4]

OMG....So mad

I wrote one of my long rants regarding this and hit a random button and it all was erased. Such a big subject to talk about. I'll just go with what I was writing...

 

Moncada is being compared as a likely #1 pick in 2015 draft if he were a part of it. He's being offered 40mil in a signing bonus at age 19.

 

How? Stephen Strasburg who w/o spending limits in 2009 signed a 4/15.2mil as a #1 selection. So far in his Professional career spanning 5 years he's made 17.65mil. He's set to earn 7.4mil in 2015. So total at age 26 Strasburg will have made 40.25mil. The exact same bonus amount Moncada is reportedly being offered at age 19. Nevermind the penalty making him 80mil in cost. Moncada w/o playing any MLB will sign as a #1 talent/ the exact amount MLB's #1 pick in 2009 has earned by them age 19 through 26. Strasburg having 5(4 really) years of MLB playing experience performing well to #1 pick talent.

 

How? is that possible? Who here for 2015 would want Moncada over Strasburg on the Brewers? Yet here's this 19yr old about to make more money than heck how about Carlos Gomez his entire career? And he's never played 1 pitch of MLB Pro Ball. And the Bonus doesn't limit Moncada from making what Gomez or Strasburg went through with the 6years of team control contract. He makes the ML roster thats 500k+ more for him. He hits Arb he can command what history shows he should command. He's being given 2 FAs contract periods essentially before he likely even reaches 28. It's just absurd.

 

The Astros btw had 5mil as a team pool in 2014. Hes being tied to 40mil 8 times the max a team could spend at the base pool. Carlos Rodon was the highest paid draftee in 2014 6.582mil.

 

I just don't see why Moncada can sign for anything more than 8mil. Wouldn't have a big problem with this if that was what we were discussing but 40mil? 5 times that?

How? How can he command that? How can MLB allow that...oh maybe because the tax goes to the Commissioner's office to be "used" to better International Activities. Reads more like/ here's hush/hush money to look the other way at the absurdity of this.

 

 

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum. It is completely absurd like you said and I agree with every statement you just wrote.

[pete]

I don't disagree with any of it, but I"m also not sure I'm understanding most of it. That might be more about me than the writing though.

 

As an aside, I see that money that goes for international activities being spent on opulent travel by MLB management. If Manfred decides to go to South America at some point and takes his family, stays in a 1K per day hotel and runs up another 1K a day in expenses, would any of the toadies like Olney ever report on it?

[jerichoholicninja]

International free agency is just one huge mess right now. What has screwed it up is the many veteran Cuban players coming here and having immediate success. Prior to the likes of Puig, Soler, Chapman, etc. the success of Cuban players was pretty sporadic so teams were hesitant to throw gobs of cash at them so every now and then a small market team could take a gamble on one of these guys. Now anyone that gets off the island is hyped and expected to deliver the same results as those guys I just mentioned and are paid like an MLB veteran free agent, essentially eliminating any team with a small payroll from even having a shot.

 

This has now trickled down into the players that fall under the International Signing rules like Yoan. He is essentially a draft pick like bcdude is alluding to but unlike a draft pick he has 30 teams to negotiate with and drive up his price instead of 1. Someone stateside is eventually going to sue MLB because of this. It makes no sense than a 19 year old kid born in the US can be subject to the draft and slotted bonuses while a 19 year old kid born in Cuba or elsewhere is exempt from the draft and can sign for 4x more.

[pacopete4]

What is the reasoning that the MLB just does not put these players in the upcoming draft in June? There should be a date they must declare and then they can be eligible for the draft, just like the other players. Now if they want to put an age limit on that, lets say 24-25 years old, and after that date they can come here and be free agents, fine. But the point made about this kid just being handed a ton of cash when never have proven that he's even good, is crazy.