Gallardo to the Rangers for IF Luis Sardiñas, RHP Corey Knebel, & RHP Marcos Diplan [lead post includes in-thread links to video & scouting reports]

[brewcrewdue80]

Or maybe others are just willing to walk away from a guy after 6-7 years? Which of course is where most of that discussion came up, it wasn't about what the player had done, but rather what they would do in the future. When it comes to discussing contract extensions and a player's ultimate value then all things positive and negative should be taken into account.

 

I agree it's about what they will do not what they did. I just don't buy the perception Gallardo could be replaced with a rookie pitcher, who hasn't shown much in his one stint in the majors, with no drop off. I get that perception is based partially on his decreased velocity. It is usually backed up by his declining K rate which is fair. But it seem those same people usually ignore his increasing GB rate. I also think there is more to it than just misplaced emphasis on K rates and lower velocity to the exclusion of all else. His velocity isn't falling any faster than a lot of pitchers who still pitched at a high level. It isn't uncommon for good pitchers to adjust as they age. Gallardo hasn't shown anything that shows he can't be one of them. In fact considering he had the best ERA of his career even though his velocity dropped would suggest he is on his way to being one of them.

I think the reason why people focus on what he lost and determine he is going to suddenly be average at best is based, at least partially, on him failing to meet some pretty high expectations in the past.

 

You know, theres a strong part of me that just thinks that Pitchers with velocity in "These Days" are more valuable, simply because BATTERS are worse than they ever were. Just hitting 20+HRs these days makes GM drool at the power(Cespedes/Puig for instance) all because the Batters in this age aren't as fundamental as batters were in the 80s with this kind of batter profile. 180ks for 15-20HRs. OK. The guy doesn't have a problem, he has power, don't care about the .230-.250 BA it comes with.

 

It's that reason, I believe the dropoff from Gallardo to Nelson isn't going to be much. It's not the difference in talent between the pitchers, its the lack of talent in the Batters Nelson has to face. That 3-4MPH additional in his FB, is fast enough to weaken 10-20% of the bats in to either strikeouts or weak groundouts/popouts because they aren't talented enough to square up on that pitch/prepare for an at bat at that velocity. It's why the 100MPH Closers in Chapman/Kimbrel go out there and K 18 batters a 9. These batters can't shorten up their swing and make contact at that velocity because that shorter swing only means singles or maybe a gap producing double. Which goes against this era's growth of swinging for the fences. They just don't know better.

 

So to me, Nelson can be as effective as Gallardo because of his FB velocity. So long as he locates it with mixing in a changeup/slider/curveball for a strike here and there.

 

It's a Pitchers ERA, gotta learn to deal with the fact that expectations for batters just aren't going to be met, they aren't as good as the originals used to be.

[brewcrewdue80]

Dumb question here. What made Sardinas a consensus top 100 player going into 2014 and Arcia wasn't? By all accounts both are very good with the glove. Neither player did much with the bat in 2013; they are roughly the same age. What gives, is Sardinas strictly more projectable? Going into 2014 you would think Arcia would be the higher ranked of the two.

 

Going strictly by the projected figures from MLB.com

 

Orlando Arcia (2014)

 

hit 45

power 30

run 45

arm 60

field 55

overall 50 (one + tool. two tools average or higher. one tool projects plus)

 

Luis Sardina (2013)

 

hit 50

power 50

run 50

arm 60

field 60

overall 60 (all tools project average or better. two project plus)

 

Sardinas across the boards has a higher upside if you believe Jonathan Mayo.

 

For the record, I am not saying I agree with him, but Sardinas was the #2 ranked prospect for the Rangers headed into 2013, who were the #1 organization in 2012. Arcia was the #2 prospect for the Brewers starting 2014. The Brewers ranked near the bottom in organizational rankings.

 

I think there's a lot of fluidity to prospect rankings. In 2013, Sardinas was ranked ahead of Joey Gallo, who is now one of the top 10 prospects in the game. Again, I'm not saying that I agree with that. I do know that Sardinas got a lot of buzz in the Dallas area. He was a little slow starting off, but caught on pretty quickly.

 

I don't think Sardinas has anywhere near Major League average power potential. He doesn't have the frame for it. He's a stick, 6'1" but 150 pounds, and he doesn't have any projectability with his body type, imo. I think he has a long way to go before he can show he's Major League average as far as his pure hitting tool goes, too. I don't think scouts look at it this way, but for me, the "hit" tool should include several factors. It might be, but should not be, imho, just purely a measure of how well somebody puts the bat on the ball. Hit tool should consider how well somebody reads pitching, and the decisions they make. If two guys both hit .280, but one strikes out 170 times, and the other strikes out 90, who is the better hitter?

 

For me, Major League average (50) hit tool should be a .260 hitter and a .330 OBP. Either metric lowering should adversely affect the rating. And I also think that swing and miss should factor in. If A guy strikes out 170 times a year, they're not a Major League average hitter. I don't care how many home runs they hit. A batter with a 33% whiff rate is terrible.

 

Fondy, I've seen some ratings that ended up being 20 points off in both directions.

 

I stated this earlier in the thread...Sardinas rankings were clearly based on his size and projectability. He's 6'1" 150lbs. Arcia is 6' even 165lbs. These talent evaluators have to be basing some of their projection the 50power to 30power on the fact that Sardinas can add 30lbs to his body and at 6'1" previous batting talent for that size must have been capable of 12-15HRs in a season ie avg. Meanwhile Arcia at 6' and 165 you would have to assume he's only going to add 10-15lbs max to his frame so what he produces today which was 4HRs each of the last 2 minor league seasons would add up to only 8-10HRs with the added size. Arcia could add 30lbs sure, but at what cost to his defensive range/ his throwing power/ and his bat speed?

 

To be down on Sardinas due to what he's produced is forgetting that he could realistically add 10-15lbs of mass to his frame in a year and what does that make him that 2nd season from now? Sardinas at =10-15lbs is still undersized and can grow. Arcia 10-15lbs more would make him about the size you would assume him to be.

Just an fyi. I can also say that, I believe since Milw's minors system has been ranked so down for awhile now, that has some to do with Arcia not making top 100 lists. Meanwhile, these evaluators are loving much of Texas' system and ranking their guys higher. For instance in 2013 Jairo Beras was I want to say in the top 60 of prospect ranks in Texas' top 7 overall and someone along with Sardinas being mentioned as a piece to trade for in Grienke deal....Now the guy is 17th in Texas's ranks and ranked a 45(below avg) overall as a MLB player in the future. Beras is btw a 6'5" OF/MIF I wanna say at the time who's OPS was below .700 last season in the Minors. Carlos Gomez effect, Taller batters/Taller Pitchers are projected to do more power. in HRs or in pitching more down-plane FB velocity. Exactly why a 5'11" pitcher like Medieros is being made out to be a RP long term.

[TooLiveBrew]

I hope Yo does one of those full-page 'farewell ads' in the JS. He's been a very good pitcher for us, & as a homegrown product I will always have a soft spot for him.

[fleehaw]

As for this trade as a whole, which side do you think will result in more WAR in 2015?

 

SP Jimmy Nelson

IF Luis Sardinas

RP Corey Knebel (not sure if he will make MLB bullpen right away)

$9 million to spend (or $9 million less cuts that need to be made)

 

SP Yovani Gallardo

IF Hector Gomez

RP Michael Blazek?

 

My money's on #1. I honestly think this trade improves the team in 2015 without even looking at the long-term influx of talent, because Nelson isn't that much worse than Gallardo. (Granted, the downside is we have less pitching depth in case of injuries)

 

I understand being bullish about Sardinas, but I don't understand penciling him into the 25 man roster this year right now. If he's the utility IF, he'll get what, about 60 starts (barring major injuries) if he's also platooning with Gennett. Is that worth burning his service time as a 21 yo? If Sardinas ends up being an everyday player, I'd rather have him as a 28 yo still playing for the Brewers.

 

Also, his main competition had a nice 2014 in AAA after a dismal 2013. Gomez is a former top prospect with an injury history. He's now entering his prime and is out of options. As long as he looks good in ST, why not roll with him as the backup middle IF while platooning at 2B, and let Sardinas develop into hopefully an everyday player by playing everyday in the minors. If Gomez is atrocious, outright him and call up Sardinas.

 

Now if Sardinas comes in and sets the world on fire, that's a different story. Of course, that story could lead to Segura starting in AAA...

[Outlander]

I also would rather have Sardinas start in AAA to give Gomez a shot and let Sardinas develop more. Like you said, if Gomez is a total fail then they can go ahead and DFA him and bring up Sardinas. I doubt Sardinas comes in and sets the world on fire though as he had his typical low OBP and no power batting line in winter ball and Segura is doing okay hovering around 300.

[monty57]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I like this move. I hated the thought of wasting Nelson in the 'pen for a year only to watch Lohse and Gallardo walk when the season was over. Then, when the Gallardo to Texas rumor emerged, I figured we'd shoot for a stopgap MLB guy, so I was pleasantly surprised to see Melvin go for prospects.

 

I don't know much about these guys except what I've read here, but I hope Sardinas starts the year at AAA, giving Segura another shot with a guy like Gomez getting the nod as the backup middle infielder. This will give Sardinas everyday playing time to continue his development. Ideally, both he and Segura would play well, as having multiple good MLB-ready shortstops would create a lot of options. If Segura continues to play like he has the last year-and-a-half, then Sardinas gives the Brewers a solid option for a starter at least until Arcia is ready.

 

If Knebel's arm holds out, he should step right into at least a middle-reliever spot, and hopefully he pitches well enough to earn a setup role. Broxton is our closer this year, but he's expensive, and it's nice to have another arm that has the potential to take over that role in the not-too-distant future. Barring the need for TJ surgery, his floor should be as a decent bullpen arm with options playing for league minimum, while his ceiling should be a closer.

 

It's way too early to know what the future holds for Diplan, but we need to continue to stockpile high upside youngsters. Some of them will flame out, but if you stockpile enough of them, a good number will become productive Major Leaguers down the road.

 

I've loved having Yo as a Brewer, but trades like this are exactly what the team needs to do if they hope to remain competitive into the future. We aren't going to trade any more short-timers this offseason, but if the team is lagging as July comes around, we could really restock the farm by doing trades like this with Lohse, Ramirez, Parra and Broxton. Unlike the last few years, where the team was very hesitant to ever be "sellers," I think this year they will pull the trigger unless they have a very good shot at the playoffs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Article: Rangers official site piece (w/videos)

 

Video: Gallardo press conference excerpts (3 min.)

 

ARLINGTON -- Yovani Gallardo finally made it to Globe Life Park in Arlington on Wednesday for the mini-camp being held for Rangers pitchers this week. All he did was play catch, but it might have been his most significant moment there since a pre-Draft workout with the Rangers in 2004 when he was still at Trimble Tech High School in Fort Worth, Texas.

 

"I've always wanted to play here," Gallardo said at an introductory news conference after the workout. "Obviously, when the trade rumors started over the weekend, I just took it as a rumor and didn't really think it was going to happen.

 

"Sure enough, it did. I was pretty excited when I got the phone call saying I was traded to Texas. Seeing yourself with the Rangers uniform, the team that you cheered on your whole life, it's pretty amazing."

 

The Rangers, who drafted pitchers Thomas Diamond and Eric Hurley ahead of Gallardo in 2004, acquired him on Monday from the Brewers in exchange for infielder Luis Sardinas, reliever Corey Knebel and Minor League pitcher Marcos Diplan.

 

The trade brought Gallardo home. He grew up on Fort Worth's north side and still lives in the area with his wife, Patricia, and their two children. Gallardo's parents still live here as do many other family and friends.

 

"Everybody's excited, that's for sure," Gallardo said. "Family's excited. Dad, brothers, uncles. They grew up here. There's a lot of family here that have been helping me out, supporting me. Just to have that opportunity to watch me play here for the home team that they've been cheering on their whole life.

 

"It's definitely a dream to have the opportunity to play for a team like the Rangers. Now I have that opportunity, and I can't wait. I can't wait for it to get underway, and I'm looking forward to it.

 

"I didn't come to very many games as a kid, but I always watched on TV, that's for sure. But the times that I did show up, I wanted to see myself out in that outfield for batting practice and being in the situation that those guys were in that time of day."

 

Gallardo, who had spent his entire career with the Brewers, but never pitched in Arlington during Interleague Play, joins a rotation that already includes Yu Darvish, Derek Holland and Colby Lewis. In Gallardo, the Rangers added a durable starter who has thrown at least 180 innings during each of the past six seasons. During that stretch, he was 80-59 with a 3.73 ERA while striking out 8.6 batters per nine innings.

 

The only downside to the trade is that Gallardo has to give up hitting. He has 12 career home runs, the most by an active pitcher. One of them was off Randy Johnson.

 

"I enjoy hitting," Gallardo said. "I've always enjoyed it, being in the National League since '07, the opportunity to hit. Hopefully, I get a couple starts when we play the National League and have an opportunity to swing the bat. I think the hitters that we have in that clubhouse are a little bit better than I am, have a little bit more power than myself."

[djoctagone]

hunter morris cleared waivers and was assigned outright to colorado springs. he'll be in major league camp on a non-roster invite. thus, this transaction remains a 3-for-1 swap.

[torts]

Im happy for Gallardo, this was a win win trade, he gets to go home to the team he grew up rooting for and the brewers actually got tangible players instead of watching him walk for nothing! best of luck to him!

[Point Beer Is Best]

Did Gallardo make any grand guestures like the now-popular full page ad to thank the fans for supporting him during his time in Milwaukee?

[Mass Haas]

Learned a ton about Yovani Gallardo's upbringing in this excellent feature

[Mass Haas]

When Braves asked about Yovani Gallardo in Jan., Brewers asked for IF Jace Peterson in exchange.