Gallardo to the Rangers for IF Luis Sardiñas, RHP Corey Knebel, & RHP Marcos Diplan [lead post includes in-thread links to video & scouting reports]

[TheCrew07]

Kinda laugh at the Ranger fans saying we need to eat salary. If we have to eat salary I see no point in trading Yo...he's our longtime "prized" pitcher and its not even a terrible salary. Melvin usually makes out like a bandit in trades so I think he will probably do well here too.

 

Ya I'm going to have to disagree with that bolded portion.

 

#1) CC Sabathia for LaPorta (zero), Rob Bryson (zero), Zach Jackson (total zero), and Brantley (Good player)

--> Trade nets Brewers first postseason berth in 26 years

 

#2) Shaun Marcum for Brett Lawrie, who is still unproven.

--> Marcum was serviceable (~3.6ERA 1.15WHIP) until injuries did him in.

 

#3) Zack Greinke for Alcides Escobar (meh), Lorenzo Cain (league average OF), Odorizzi (jury still out), and Jeremy Jeffress, who is now back on the team

--> Greinke again led the Brewers to the postseason, not far from a World Series

 

#4) Zack Greinke traded for Jean Segura, Hellweg(unproven), Pena(bullpen piece?)

--> Jury out on Segura, but we got a young controllable talent who has flashed big upside, and two boom/bust prospects.

 

 

I'm sure I am missing something, but what would you be disagreeing with?

 

Well I don't see the Sabathia, Greinke, and Marcum trades as big wins... because we didn't win anything.

 

As to Melvin's trade history...

 

This is now just his second deal to include any kind of legitimate young cost controlled talent coming back, and I'm using that term loosely for Sardinas. I'm not into stop gap solutions which lead to more problems down the road like Sabathia, Marcum, and Greinke.

 

All too often around here trades are based on what the players given up have done, rather than the ultimate value received. I'm tired of the lack of patience this organization has displayed and trades for "mlb contributors". DM and MA haven't built solid depth, they've repeatedly spent prospects on marginal upgrades or short term solutions, none of which has gotten the Brewers over the hump.

 

As to the other trades I've absolutely despised off the top of my head....

 

The Lyle Overbay trade was awful.

 

The Carlos Lee trade was awful.

 

The Doug Davis trade with AZ was awful.

 

Scott Linebrink was a worthless trade, because 1 reliever isn't going to turn anyone's season around.

 

I wasn't a fan of the Tony Graffanino trade, another old stop gap..

 

Shipping off Grant Balfour after just 3 appearances ticked me off.

 

Felipe Lopez was another move for the sake of making a move.

 

Acquiring K-Rod multiple times has repeatedly drawn my ire.

 

Finally, his record in FA has largely been awful. One 2 contracts look good on paper so far, Cameron and Lohse (fingers crossed he doesn't pull a Wolf). However the Brewers haven't made the playoffs with Lohse on the roster and his signing cost him the team a draft pick and the corresponding draft pool amount which is a bigger deal.

 

So in quick summation, the Brewers have traded a ton of assets for very little tangible return over the years. Trading all those players for 3 months of Sabathia, 7 months of good Greinke, and 6 months of good Marcum was largely a waste of resources from a talent perspective. I won't debate ticket sales and all of the intangibles that came with them, those things mean nothing to me, I've been focused on the relative talent level of the entire organization... I've looking to build legitimate depth, not ride the profitability line every year with nothing behind the players on the MLB roster.

 

I don't care about the players given up, I care that the return in those trades never permanently solved a single issue.

 

 

 

 

 

The only 2 FA contracts which have worked out well (so far) are Lohse and

[homer]

Let's try and keep the posts about this trade in particular and not Doug Melvin's trading history.

[brwrsfan]

Some of those trades definitely weren't good, but I don't know anyone could look at the Sabathia trade as bad simply because we "didn't win anything".

 

Brantley turned out to be good eventually, but LaPorta was a complete bust. Beyond that, we don't make the playoffs without CC on the mound. I don't think there's much debate about that. Sure, we lost in the first round, but for anyone born after 1982, it was the first time the Brewers had EVER made the playoffs and we don't make it without CC putting us on his back.

 

If that's not "winning" a trade, I'm not sure what is. Very, very few trades actually directly lead a team to a WS title.

 

I don't know any of these guys we got, but the pitchers at least seem intriguing. I think that's a good trade for Gallardo - who hasn't been that great and likely wouldn't have been back next year anyways.

[Eye Black]

According to J.J. Cooper in the soon to be released 2015 Baseball America Prospect Handbook Sardinas is ranked 7th, Knebel 17th, and Diplan 22nd on the Rangers Top 30 list. In last year's BA Prospect Handbook Sardinas was 6th and Diplan 10th in the Rangers Top 30 list, and Knebel was 6th in the Tigers Top 30 list.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm intrigued by the two pitchers but there is still nothing about Sardinas that excites me. I see him being non-tendered before he hits arbitration. A great glove can only take you so far. Overall, I'm glad that the Brewers at least got multiple prospects back and not just one guy.

 

Sardinas is thin for his frame. 150lbs ish at 6'1"?!? I've been told my frame at 5'10" to be around 170 to be average. He's supposed to be an athelete which imo means he should be slightly bigger than that suggestion and he's 3inches taller than me. So his frame guess wise ought to be 185-190. How much power does he gain with 35-40lbs added to that frame? If he fills out and goes from the 2-7HR type hitter he is today in to a 10-18HR Middle Infielder? plus maybe learn to add 2-3% to his BB rate? There's some excitement in that factor. It's like Diplan throwing 91-92 but has a building frame to project to 95-97MPH. Sardinas needs to learn how to get stronger. This is the kind of stuff like Carlos Gomez, takes some time to fill out and mature and start hitting HRs. He's 21 not 25-27 for a prospect. He has youth to grow as a player. He could remain rail thin though and be a AAAA bust utility. At some point he's either going to figure it out or get lost in the lights. I'm game for seeing the attempt, it'll be interesting to follow.

[DR28]

that puts the 40-man at 41. knebel and sardinas were on the rangers' 40-man roster.

Sardinas could easily displace Luis Jimenez imo.

you'd put hunter morris ahead of luis jimenez on the depth chart--knowing you'd still have matt clark and jason rogers on the 40-man? i think hunter morris will be outrighted.

 

Hunter Morris was DFA'd.

[brewcrewdue80]

you'd put hunter morris ahead of luis jimenez on the depth chart--knowing you'd still have matt clark and jason rogers on the 40-man? i think hunter morris will be outrighted.

 

Hunter Morris was DFA'd.

 

 

Thanks. I forgot about Morris just thought Jimenez being a DFA pickup could be the first to go based on not producing much in the winter leagues. So long Hunter Morris.

[DR28]

Not sure how to read this...

 

Melvin said doesn't see pursuing Shields.

 

Disappointed if that's true... Really want Shields to be our Ace.

[Thurston Fluff]

Certainly wasn't expecting a potential MLB-caliber SS plus two other solid prospects for a likely 4+ ERA pitcher like Gallardo.

 

How are you arriving at the conclusion he is likely to be a 4+ERA pitcher?

Arlington

ETA http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

4.18 and 1.36 WHIP in 2013 and all on exp deal

 

I read that to mean caliber a pitcher he was. If you literally meant 4+ ERA in Texas as opposed to what type of pitcher sure it is possible. How likely I don't know. His FIP is lower I know that.

He was a 4+ ERA pitcher in 2013, his peripherals only got worse last season, he's another year older, he's moving to the AL and Texas. He's been a 3.90+ FIP pitcher for three seasons now.

 

In every other season, including last year, he was better than that. If you also take into consideration some external factors that weighed on him, like his mom dying and such, it's kind of cherry picking to use that one season as his true value while ignoring all the rest. As far as being another year older yes he will be all of 29. If he was a 3.90+ FIP for three years running I think that is closer to what he is likely to be next year. Moving to the AL would probably raise his ERA but, like I said, I took it to mean that was his talent level not a literal number.

[superfly]

Not sure how to read this...

 

Melvin said doesn't see pursuing Shields.

 

Disappointed if that's true... Really want Shields to be our Ace.

 

So in other words Shields will be signed in the next 24 hours. DM is very hard to read, so there's just as good a chance he's misleading as there is he's telling the truth.

[SoupTown]

Can we find a third baseman in this mix. I mean somebody who plays good D and plays good O? Suddenly I read about 'sliding Scooter over to third base'. Huh? Where did that come from? I have seen Segura mentioned at third base in the future. That kind of makes sense. Jimenez DM and RR love his D at 3rd. But the poor guy cannot hit winter ball pitching. Is Rogers a true third baseman? I am just wondering what this trade does for 3rd base in 2016. But we surely filled a late inning reliever role, so that is good.

 

I likely can answer my own question: just wait and see.

 

I would put Sardinas for sure in AAA to start.

[DR28]

Not sure how to read this...

 

Melvin said doesn't see pursuing Shields.

 

Disappointed if that's true... Really want Shields to be our Ace.

 

So in other words Shields will be signed in the next 24 hours. DM is very hard to read, so there's just as good a chance he's misleading as there is he's telling the truth.

 

Haha good point... Man I would really love this to be true.

[SRB]

In every other season, including last year, he was better than that. If you also take into consideration some external factors that weighed on him, like his mom dying and such, it's kind of cherry picking to use that one season as his true value while ignoring all the rest. As far as being another year older yes he will be all of 29. If he was a 3.90+ FIP for three years running I think that is closer to what he is likely to be next year. Moving to the AL would probably raise his ERA but, like I said, I took it to mean that was his talent level not a literal number.

 

His ERA was better, nothing else was. I'm not cherrypicking, anybody with eyes can see that his stuff has visibly diminished over the years. Last year the strikeouts disappeared even further, to a sub-7.0 K/9. I don't think Gallardo profiles well as a low-K, high-GB pitcher long-term.

 

He's a 4+ ERA, #4, so-so talent level pitcher, however you want to cut it. I like Yovani a lot, he's always been one of my favorite players, but I'm just being objective here. I suspect this will blow up in Texas's face like the Garza trade did.

[brewtank34]

I think what we are seeing is actually the beginning of a rebuild.I believe that Doug Melvin sees the writing on the wall and that St. Louis Pittsburgh Cincinnati and the Cubs are all moving ahead of us for the future. Based on tom haudricorts latest tweets it appears that no big signing is ahead rather minor bullpen arm signings. I could be wrong but I see this being the beginning of a rebuild

[BuckyBrewer61]

So in other words Shields will be signed in the next 24 hours. DM is very hard to read, so there's just as good a chance he's misleading as there is he's telling the truth.

 

Well, Brewers On Deck is coming up this weekend...

[SRB]

Can we find a third baseman in this mix. I mean somebody who plays good D and plays good O? Suddenly I read about 'sliding Scooter over to third base'. Huh? Where did that come from? I have seen Segura mentioned at third base in the future. That kind of makes sense. Jimenez DM and RR love his D at 3rd. But the poor guy cannot hit winter ball pitching. Is Rogers a true third baseman? I am just wondering what this trade does for 3rd base in 2016. But we surely filled a late inning reliever role, so that is good.

 

I likely can answer my own question: just wait and see.

 

I would put Sardinas for sure in AAA to start.

 

I don't know if Scooter can play 3B, but if Segura has an offensive revival it makes sense to have his decent defense at 2B. Scooter is not a defensive powerhouse, so he's the one who should move.

 

Sardinas should not be in AAA, especially when we have a MLB 2B who cannot hit LHP whatsoever and no viable utility options other than Hector Gomez.

[BeerFan]

We already have five guys that deserve to be in the rotation. Just save the money and prospects. This isn't a playoff team regardless. But it will at least be competitive.

[MNBrew]

The concern about adding another SP (or more than 1 if you're talking Estrada-types, as TH notes on Twitter) is that if we have only 5 guys who are rotation-worthy, then we've got basically no proven depth if someone goes down, which at minimum is basically guaranteed to happen for at least a short stretch, without bringing Smith out of his BP role and into the rotation, thus blowing open a different hole, or bringing up someone from AAA who's not proven at all yet MLB-wise. Thornburg's no given at this point to even be healthy. Jungmann could be good but he also could easily put up numbers as bad as Nelson's were in MIL last year.

[ewitkows]

Can we find a third baseman in this mix. I mean somebody who plays good D and plays good O? Suddenly I read about 'sliding Scooter over to third base'. Huh? Where did that come from? I have seen Segura mentioned at third base in the future. That kind of makes sense. Jimenez DM and RR love his D at 3rd. But the poor guy cannot hit winter ball pitching. Is Rogers a true third baseman? I am just wondering what this trade does for 3rd base in 2016. But we surely filled a late inning reliever role, so that is good.

 

I likely can answer my own question: just wait and see.

 

I would put Sardinas for sure in AAA to start.

 

I don't know if Scooter can play 3B, but if Segura has an offensive revival it makes sense to have his decent defense at 2B. Scooter is not a defensive powerhouse, so he's the one who should move.

 

Sardinas should not be in AAA, especially when we have a MLB 2B who cannot hit LHP whatsoever and no viable utility options other than Hector Gomez.

 

.281/.302/.386 over AA/AAA/MLB last year doesn't scream mlb utility guy. Specially at 21. He needs to play every day at either AA or AAA

[DHonks]

some are declaring Sardinas a super utility or a platoon partner. At this point, Hector Gomez is more likely to contribute in 2015. For 2016, our shortstop will either be Seggy or Arcia. Sorry, but Sardinas has virtually no chance.

[StearnsFTW]

Love this deal. Diplan is exactly the kind of guy we should be going after. Knebel is a high velocity reliever.

 

Sardinas could be a valuable piece on an NL team with his versatility and switch hitteredness.

 

I didn't think we'd get much of anything for Yo, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

[pacopete4]

Not sure how to read this...

 

Melvin said doesn't see pursuing Shields.

 

Disappointed if that's true... Really want Shields to be our Ace.

 

So in other words Shields will be signed in the next 24 hours. DM is very hard to read, so there's just as good a chance he's misleading as there is he's telling the truth.

 

Haha good point... Man I would really love this to be true.

 

Shields is no ACE. And already 33, no thank you to paying a guy on the back end of his career. If anything, go get Zimmerman. He's 5 years younger and has been even better. I'll pay him for the next 5-7 years too.

[pacopete4]

Diplan will be a fun guy to keep track of. Please let him be the next big thing. The Brewers could use a break with something like that.

[brewmann04]

Yes i don't see the Brewers being in any playoff race in 2015. I think we will see a firesale by the Crew if they are not in a race . Loshe,Aram Parra are all guys that could be moved in July even Gomez. i understand moving Yo but what we got back does not make this team better.

[SRB]

some are declaring Sardinas a super utility or a platoon partner. At this point, Hector Gomez is more likely to contribute in 2015. For 2016, our shortstop will either be Seggy or Arcia. Sorry, but Sardinas has virtually no chance.

 

Bookmark the thread, guess we'll find out.