Transactions/Moves You Want Back...

[clancyphile]

With some of the retrospectives, I was wondering:

 

What are the transactions/roster moves that you, as a Brewers fan, wish the franchise could "have back"?

 

They can be trades, free-agent signings, allowing a player to depart via free-agency, or even management/use of the players who were on the roster.

 

The five top moves I would like back:

 

1. Allowing Paul Molitor to depart as a free agent after 1992.

Perhaps the most heart-breaking for me - even as someone who was just a high-school sophomore at the time. But also he was a very valuable player - and had plenty of baseball left to play. He should have been a Brewer for life.

 

2. Trading Dante Bichette in the 1992-1993 offseason for Kevin Reimer.

Had the Brewers kept Bichette, they'd have had one of the better power-hitting outfielders of the mid-to-late 1990s. Reimer was done after 1993.

 

3. The three-team trade with Oakland and Colorado in December 1999.

Brewers traded Jeff Cirillo and Scott Karl, two of their better players - and got duds in return. Cirillo, in particular, flourished at Colorado before a detour in Seattle.

 

4. Moving Ryan Braun from third base.

Long-discussed here, but imagine this: Suppose the Brewers had kept Braun and his offensive production from 2008-2012, at third base, and instead had hit the free-agent market for a left fielder? Probably a better offensive team overall, and not as much of the revolving door the Crew had between Bill Hall, Casey McGeehee, and the aging Aramis Ramirez. That A-Ram money could probably have picked up a very good outfielder from 2012-2014.

 

5. Three-team deal with the Mets and Rockies in January 2002.

The Brewers trade Jeromy Burnitz, the protection in the lineup for Richie Sexson, and got Lenny Harris and Alex Ochoa (plus Glendon Rusch) in return. How did that deal - or the 2002 season - work out?

[logan82]

4. Moving Ryan Braun from third base.

Long-discussed here, but imagine this: Suppose the Brewers had kept Braun and his offensive production from 2008-2012, at third base, and instead had hit the free-agent market for a left fielder? Probably a better offensive team overall, and not as much of the revolving door the Crew had between Bill Hall, Casey McGeehee, and the aging Aramis Ramirez. That A-Ram money could probably have picked up a very good outfielder from 2012-2014.

No, just no. Braun had one of the worst defensive seasons of any player in MLB history at 3B. He was, literally, a historically bad defender. He had to be moved off of 3B. He graded out bad in all defensive metrics. He looked awkward over there. There was no redeeming part of his defensive game at 3B other than a strong arm.

[igor67]

1,3, and 5 make some sense at first glance. I don't remember who we got back for Cirillo and Karl, but my recollection was our nascent Brewerfan community wasn't thrilled from the get go. Burnitz I know we didn't care for, those are the one in my mind that qualify as the ones to take back, not trades were you took a shot, but it just didn't work out.

[clancyphile]

1,3, and 5 make some sense at first glance. I don't remember who we got back for Cirillo and Karl, but my recollection was our nascent Brewerfan community wasn't thrilled from the get go. Burnitz I know we didn't care for, those are the one in my mind that qualify as the ones to take back, not trades were you took a shot, but it just didn't work out.

 

For Cirillo and Karl, the Brewers got Blanco (never liked him), Jamey Wright, and Jimmy Haynes.

[Jenkins5]

Throwing Nelson Cruz into Carlos Lee trade

[logan82]

Throwing Nelson Cruz into Carlos Lee trade

Anyone could have picked up Cruz about a year later. No one did. That was not a mistake at all.

[SRB]

Trading Darrell Porter in 1976. I think if he had still been on the roster, the 1979 Brewers probably would have been the best team in franchise history and maybe could have won a World Series (though tough to say because the 100+ win 1979 Orioles were still very good and might have kept us out of the playoffs like they did in reality).

 

1979 Darrell Porter (with the Royals): .291/.421/.484/.905, 7.6 WAR

 

 

 

Also would love to have Michael Brantley back.

[NeedMoreFans]

Trading Fernando Vina to the Cardinals for a relief pitcher and two PTBNL. I think they traded him because of the emergence of Belliard, but with hindsight, that was a terrible move.

 

Also, trading Mark Loretta for Wayne Franklin and Keith Ginter.

[trwi7]

Throwing Nelson Cruz into Carlos Lee trade

Anyone could have picked up Cruz about a year later. No one did. That was not a mistake at all.

 

That just means we made a mistake twice. There was no reason to make that trade with or without Cruz.

[adambr2]

The trading of Carlos Lee was pretty baffling. Not that we traded him, but what we got back. A 1 1/2 year rental of a veteran closer, a short-term platoon partner for Geoff Jenkins, and a guy who is a decent journeyman corner OFer/1B.

 

Nothing that we acquired was still on the team for our playoff push 2 years later, other than 27 AB's from Nix, and at a time when the youth movement was starting to come to fruition for us I was puzzled that we were unable, or unwilling, to seek long-term prospects for Lee instead of veterans.

[DHonks]

actually, #5 was weird. Karl had a good minor league season with the Pirates a few years later and just decided he'd had enough. Cirillo was sad to see, but did deteriorate. Haynes had a couple really good seasons with the Reds, Wright is still pitching, and Blanco had a great late career as a defensive catcher. Really the trade was a response to our weak pitching and Nilsson's ineffectiveness with throwing. In the end, the 3 guys we received had nice careers.

[MNBrew]

1. Molitor's FA departure ("Just a DH." - Sal Bando... words that will live in Brewer infamy)

 

2. Favoring their respective replacements rather than keeping/paying/not trading Vina, Loretta, and Cirillo. . . . For all the Brewers' sub-par records in the late '90s, those three made up a very solid if unheralded 3/4 of the IF.

 

3. The Carlos Lee trade -- not for giving up Lee, but also throwing in Nelson Cruz so we could get (*groan*) Kevin Mench in return.

 

The Bichette trade was horribly short-sighted, too. I don't know that he would've flourished in MIL nearly like he did in COL, but his success vs. Reimer's total lack of it makes it look really, really bad. However, I now think of Bichette with at least a smile post-career-wise since (around the time his son pitched in the LLWS) he bought the house my grandparents built (in the late '50s) and still lived in around the corner from our house in the '70s (now torn down for re-development, unfortunately, though years later nothing's doing on that still-vacant lot -- it was an awesome house in a killer location).

 

(edited for typos)

[BrewersSuperCollector]

NELSON CRUZ COULD HAVE BEEN GOTTEN BACK FOR NOTHING

 

 

Please everyone....he was a thrown in prospect that nobody else wanted a year later.

[brewmann04]

i stopped @number 1 still could not brlieve it.

[trwi7]

NELSON CRUZ COULD HAVE BEEN GOTTEN BACK FOR NOTHING

 

 

Please everyone....he was a thrown in prospect that nobody else wanted a year later.

 

My problem was he never got a chance here. The Lee trade wasn't good without Cruz, it was even worse with him.

[Baldkin]

1. Molitor's FA departure ("Just a DH." - Sal Bando... words that will live in Brewer infamy)

 

I just want to say, Bando was completely ripped for that statement, but the full question was along the lines of:

 

"Do you view Molitor as a position player still or is he a DH?"

 

Bando: "He's just a DH."

 

Now, not resigning Molitor, yes, awful in my 13 year old self's mind and it broke my heart... but looking back... if the Brewers resigned a 35 year old, injury prone DH to a deal for approximately 10% of their team salary....

 

Who am I kidding. It broke my heart.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Does anyone remember when everyone got really excited cleveland chose brantley as the ptbnl instead of taylor green?

[Invader3K]

re: Ryan Braun, he was basically the worst every day player, in terms of defense, to ever play third base. Leaving him at third base would have been "nice" in terms of a roster standpoint, but he was way too much of a liability there. He's even admitted it himself, after the fact. ("I'll play anywhere except third base...that didn't work out too well.")

 

I agree 100% that letting Molitor walk in free agency was completely the wrong move. Selig should have pulled rank on Bando and told him to get the man re-signed. I remember reading how Bud was completely shocked when he found out Molitor had signed with Toronto.

 

The other moves mentioned go into the "What were they thinking?" category. The Lee trade in particular was a total short term move that looks really pointless through the lens of time. I think I liked getting Cordero at the time, but in retrospect the team might have been better off letting El Caballo leave in free agency and taking whatever comp pick they would have received.

[Outlander]

Does anyone remember when everyone got really excited cleveland chose brantley as the ptbnl instead of taylor green?

No, most were hoping they would choose Green.

[Invader3K]

No, most were hoping they would choose Green.

 

Really? That's not how I remember it at all. Someone more in tune with the minor league forum can probably tell the true story, though.

[Roderick]

No, most were hoping they would choose Green.

 

Really? That's not how I remember it at all. Someone more in tune with the minor league forum can probably tell the true story, though.

 

My memory was that Green was the more highly thought of at the time.

[reillymcshane]

No, most were hoping they would choose Green.

 

Really? That's not how I remember it at all. Someone more in tune with the minor league forum can probably tell the true story, though.

Most people wanted Brantley.

 

I think if the club had missed the playoffs, we would have been able to pick the player (and given them Green). Since we made the playoffs, Cleveland got to pick the player - and took Brantley.

 

I loved Brantley's high OBP. The guy is one of the few players to come up through the system to actually take walks (and not strike out a ton). I thought he could be a .280-.300 hitter and get on base at a .350+ %. I never thought he'd be a 20 HR guy - maybe 10. But even a 10 HR guy who gets on base 35% of the time is pretty nice to have.

[reillymcshane]

The Brewers letting Molitor go was heartbreaking. I knew why, but it was really hard to take. We really low balled the guy, basically forcing him out. I think we offered him a one-year deal for around $2.5 million (a pay cut), and he ended up getting $13 million over three years from Toronto. I can't blame him for walking. But it still really stung.

 

The age thing (Molitor was coming off his age 35 season) was certainly an issue. But the team was really more about cutting corners than being competitive.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think there's almost consensus agreement that the Molitor debacle would rank at or near the top in franchise history of "SERIOUSLY?" moves.

 

Moving Braun off of third was absolutely the right move. He wasn't just bad at third. He was historically bad. He was all-time bad. He was among the worst ever bad. He was chewing up a huge chunk of his positive offensive value with how bad he was at third base. I know a fair number of people think defensive value is over-stated, but time and again, it can't be overstated how brutally awful Braun was at 3rd base. It was the right call.

[Outlander]

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=14908

 

While there were fans of both I would still say most here would have rather had Brantley than Green. I do agree with homer's comments though when he said "I'm just glad it wasn't Lucroy."