2015 Hall of Fame Ballot Unveiled (Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz and Craig Biggio elected; post 22)

[JohnBriggs12]

Piazza being left out strictly on innuendo is ridiculous. He's the best hitting catcher I ever saw and it's not really close.

[fondybrewfan]

I am guessing Piazza is a lock for next year though; when people get that close enough people the following year usually vote for them to get them over the top. Bagwell might be possible next year too.

[remfire]

I would agree Piazza should get in next year based on his upward trending percentage. It's not going to get any easier in the upcoming years for any of these guys though. 2016 will bring Griffey Jr., Trevor Hoffman, and Billy Wagner to the ballot. Though I don't see it, Billy Wagner will get his share of love. 2017 will bring Vlady, Pudge, Manny, and Posada. Yes, Posada will get his share of love too. 2018 will bring Chipper, Thome, and Omar Vizquel. 2019 will bring Mariano, Halladay, Helton, and Pettitte.

One could argue that all 14 of these guys have a legit case. The only one who won't clog the ballot up too much is Manny with his PED use. This, sadly, does not bode well for guys like Raines, Bagwell, Mussina, Schilling, McGriff, etc. Unless the BBWAA continues to stay generous and keep voting for 3-4 guys per class, we'll see a lot of these guys fall off sooner than they should.

[Outlander]

I really think the worst of the clogging of the ballot is over. Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, Biggio and Mattingly are all gone from the 2016 ballot so that frees up guys like Piazza, Raines, Bagwell and even Schilling/Mussina to make a move as there isn't much starting pitching in the foreseeable future. Trammell will be removed after next year plus Piazza after he gets elected so that should help even more. I really don't think any deserving guys will fall off sooner than they should as there should be room on the ballot to keep them on.

[pacopete4]

I'm not exactly sure how much the commissioner has to do with the voting process and things like that but if he has a big part, I would love for him to make this his first change in the new position. It is completely ridiculous how this is voted on. I was listening to Mike & Mike this morning and they talked about a Cleveland sports writer who wouldn't vote for Pedro because he did not like his actions on the mound and because he dominated his Indians so badly that he could not vote for him. How insane is that? If I'm commish, I'm putting Pete Rose in their and changing the voting process so that guys like Bonds, Clemens, etc.. are getting in. Roids or not, they are some of the best that have ever played. Time to get over it and move on.

[JackNicholson1974]

The BBWA is so stupid. They wont vote for guys like Bonds, Clemens and Palmeiro because steroids, but they also wont vote for guys like Raines, Trammell and McGriff who really made their cases before the steroid years. If you penalize Bonds and ManRam, shouldnt you give a bump to guys like Trammell Raines and McGriff?

[Baldkin]

I really think the worst of the clogging of the ballot is over. Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, Biggio and Mattingly are all gone from the 2016 ballot so that frees up guys like Piazza, Raines, Bagwell and even Schilling/Mussina to make a move as there isn't much starting pitching in the foreseeable future. Trammell will be removed after next year plus Piazza after he gets elected so that should help even more. I really don't think any deserving guys will fall off sooner than they should as there should be room on the ballot to keep them on.

 

Jonah Keri has a good look going forward on who's coming onto the ballot:

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/hall-of-fame-reset-a-very-early-look-at-mlb-induction-possibilities-for-the-next-five-years/

 

One of the more interesting cases is Milwaukee's own rented son, Jim Edmonds.

[DocLuna7]

Even though Trevor was only here in Milwaukee two years it would still be kind of cool to see him go to the HOF. Obviously he goes in as a Padre, but we don't have many guys who spent any time with the Brewers in the Hall.

[Outlander]

If Hoffman gets elected he would also get inducted to the new Brewers Wall of Honor.

[Bombers]

I really think the worst of the clogging of the ballot is over. Johnson, Martinez, Smoltz, Biggio and Mattingly are all gone from the 2016 ballot so that frees up guys like Piazza, Raines, Bagwell and even Schilling/Mussina to make a move as there isn't much starting pitching in the foreseeable future. Trammell will be removed after next year plus Piazza after he gets elected so that should help even more. I really don't think any deserving guys will fall off sooner than they should as there should be room on the ballot to keep them on.

 

Jonah Keri has a good look going forward on who's coming onto the ballot:

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/hall-of-fame-reset-a-very-early-look-at-mlb-induction-possibilities-for-the-next-five-years/

 

One of the more interesting cases is Milwaukee's own rented son, Jim Edmonds.

Reading that article just makes me slightly perturbed. I mean, Vlad Guererro might not get 75% of the votes. HUH?!?! That is crazy. Complete Ludacris. I am 32 years old and he is one of the best players I have ever seen. He could do it all. His canon for an arm was downright jaw dropping. His plate coverage was hilariously awesome. (hilarious because of him swinging at laughable pitches but yet awesome as he would drive them all over diamond.) In my world, he is a first ballot HOF all day, every day.

 

Pudge, just like Piazza should make it in easily but like Mike might not? More silliness as these two guys were just amazing catchers and the last 2 catcher's to make the hall last played over 20 years ago (Carlton Fisk in 93 and Gary Carter in 92.) Here are Pudge's numbers from the article:

made 14 All-Star Games, won 13 well-deserved Gold Gloves and seven Sliver Sluggers, earned five top-10 MVP finishes, and won the award in 1999. He batted .296/.334/.464 for his career (106 OPS+),

 

Yep, just another regular old Joe sitting behind the dish. I couldn't imagine being one of these guys and not getting the votes needed. As the writer wrote, Tim Raines dominated the league for a frickin decade and isn't in!

 

Somehow there needs to be a way to ban a writer from voting. Or bypass the idiot's all together an allow MLB to get someone in. I mean some of these guys are sabotaging the voting process and that just flat out isn't right.

[pogokat]

Piazza and Pudge both carry Roid suspicions...which is why they have a harder road into the hall. Without a doubt first ballot hall of famers otherwise.

 

I think they will both get in, just not as quickly as some of the guys from that era that don't have the "possible" baggage

[fondybrewfan]

I don't know if Pudge ever showed up on a list or not; but I don't believe Piazza ever did. Writers are just assuming that since Piazza had some of the greatest years of all time for a catcher during the steroid era that he had to have been taking them. I don't think there is even a half way credible source linking Piazza to PED's. Just some journalists who have a keyboard and an audience.

[pogokat]

Oh, i agree with that for the most part...Pudge was surrounded by guys that have been busted on his team in texas though, and that gives the voters at least a circumstantial argument

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm sure there were only 1 or 2 writers who were thinking this way but Piazza really didn't belong behind the plate. He wasn't a total butcher but he was probably one of the worst defensive catchers of his time. Put his bat at any other position and he's probably a borderline HOF'er. His lack of milestone counting stats probably would keep him out though.

[JimH5]

What I don't understand is how the only evidence some people are willing to accept is a failed drug test.

 

Clearly, that's solid evidence of a player using, but it's not the only thing.

 

Bill Madden of the NY Daily News was on a Mike Francesa podcast a couple days ago, and he said that he had trusted players tell him that Piazza was using. Why is Madden not allowed to consider that when casting his HOF vote?

 

Why can't we look at Luis Gonzalez's physique at the beginning of his career, and see what it looked like during his 57 HR season, and see that nobody in today's game looks like that, and not consider that?

 

Writers have access to stuff that fans do not. So shouldn't we let them use their judgment?

[rwa12]

Eye test for me, but Pudge seemed to shrink in half at the same time they started testing. At this point, can we just assume that every player in that era either used, or enabled others by not making a big deal out of it? Treat it as what it is, a specific era in the sport, and move on.

[TooLiveBrew]

Eye test for me, but Pudge seemed to shrink in half at the same time they started testing. At this point, can we just assume that every player in that era either used, or enabled others by not making a big deal out of it? Treat it as what it is, a specific era in the sport, and move on.

Absolutely agree with that -- I was shocked the first time I saw him once he began his... new workout regimen. I recall him saying he changed it up so he'd be faster & more agile. But dude looked like a balloon that'd been deflated.

[1992casey]

I'm not exactly sure how much the commissioner has to do with the voting process and things like that but if he has a big part, I would love for him to make this his first change in the new position.

 

The commissioner doesn't have anything to do with the Hall of Fame; they make the rules. As an example, it's the Hall's choice that players on baseball's ineligible list are also ineligible for the Hall.

[igor67]

I have no doubt a large number of players evaded detection over the years. Potentially even some that might make it into the HOF. Similarly there are plenty of people who have some responsibility of how far out of hand things appear to have gotten. It is however an imperfect world and rather than giving everyone a pass for bad behavior and calling that justice, I'm content with known guilty parties being excluded. I'm also content to not continually try and dig up new evidence on players from that era. What has gotten really mixed up is that most people focus on the cheating part, but that is the least important aspect of how bad their behavior was.

 

The much more relevant danger, which I have maintained for years is that the perception of use pushed more and more people to use including kids who truly never had a shot at the big pay day to begin with. Certainly the modern 'roids' were somewhat safer than the first generation, but we are only now entering the time frame where unexpected medium or long term side effects would actually show-up. Point blank any media type who has railed the NFL for ignoring concussions, but also says let the PED users in is being completely inconsistent about player safety. And I bet it wouldn't be that hard to convince anyone who has ever taken a hit without body armor from Clemens of that reality.