2015 lineup

[fondybrewfan]

I agree, if we can get good Ryan Braun (Not even MVP Braun) and average performance out of Segura we should have one of the best offenses in the league. A lot of the guys we have are injury prone so it will require some luck. But I really like those lineups.

 

RR did say he would give Lind a shot in spring training to go against a lot of lefties so a straight platoon there shouldn't be assumed. Lind won't face the really good lefties but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some starts. At worst he is a heck of a pinch hitter late in games when there is a lefty starter.

[JohnBriggs12]

The wild card on this team is going to either be Jimenez or Rogers but most likely Jimenez. I think he's going to play a lot more than anyone thinks.

 

His AAA numbers: .295/.327/.485 aren't bad though they were accumulated in Salt Lake City, which does favor hitters. I wouldn't count out Rogers completely if he shows he can play adequate 3B. He's done nothing but overachieve relative to his draft position and guys like that can't be dismissed. His multiple remaining options don't work in his favor though.

[pacopete4]

With the suggestion of Braun hitting leadoff I just wanted to look at the numbers a little closer. If getting on base is the main thing you want, then Lind is you guy. I get that getting on base is the most important thing to do but I still am a believer in there needs to be a core of guys 3-5 that are able to knock in runs. I believe Gomez is one of those guys along with Braun and Lind.

 

Lineup with AVG's of Last Two Seasons Combined

Gennett (.331obp/.449slg)

Lucroy (.357obp/.460slg)

Braun (.348obp/.476slg *I'm a believe that these will increase with health)

Gomez (his #'s the last two season are incredible. .347 obp/.492 slg)

Lind (.369obp/.488slg *yes those numbers are correct, he can hit!)

Aram (.350obp/.444 slg *numbers are close to what we may expect, maybe a minor dip)

Davis (.311obp/.487slg *hopefully a slight increase in OBP at least)

Segura (.309obp/.375slg *ick, just ick. Please Sardinias, be good)

 

Ramirez slugged .376 from July 1 on last year and only walked 10 times in that stretch. I'm in the camp that he slumped badly in large part because he's hit the wall. I expect a major dip not a minor one.

 

Very well could be right. I'm just in the camp of he had a lot of leg injuries that hindered his performance. My faith is in it that he worked his tail off in the off season to get in the best shape possible to continue his career. If he didn't, it will show up right away and no one will be signing him a year from now.

[MrTPlush]

Part of me wants to take the bait and go with a lot of you on Gennett leading off, but I am going to resist. I also don't think there will be a platoon in LF.

 

vs. RHP

Gomez

Gennett

Lucroy

Braun

Lind

Ramirez

Davis

Segura

 

vs. LHP

Gomez

Lucroy

Braun

Ramirez

Davis

Maldonado

Sardinas

Segura

[Jenkins5]

1) Segura/Gennett

2) Gomez

3) Braun

4) Ramirez

5) Lucroy

6) Davis

7) Lind

8) Gennett/Segura

 

I think if Segura bounces back, he offers the most at leadoff. He has much more speed and is more of a threat on the bases than Scooter. With Segura and Gomez, that could help create a lot of runs with the way they can get around the bases. Neither enjoy taking walks. Gennett has a great hit tool, he is a guy who will always be around .300 and has some pop as well but I just like having that havoc speed combo in front.

 

Gomez very well cold be a 3-5 hitter, however, his speed is critical up front. If we want just a slower top who got on base and hit a lot we could go Scooter & Lucroy 1-2 but if we want to create some runs...Gomez at 1 or 2 is my favorite option.

 

Braun is a 3 hitter, never like him as a 4 hitter and he has struggled when put there. He has publically said he was a fan of the 4 spot as well.

 

Ramirez has held this spot since arriving, if healthy, they leave him there.

 

Lucroy is good anywhere between 2-5. I don't like his speed for 2 though. Braun and A-Ram have dips on 3 & 4 and Lucroy can be a RBI machine at 5

 

Davis/Lind doesn't really matter, both fit 6-7. I always fit Davis into #6

 

Gennett or Segura holding down the back end. Nice thing here with Gennett, you don't have to worry about Segura being slowed down on the bases as much. After Braun at 3, from 4-7 no one outside of Davis run too well.

 

Bold prediction on HRs

Segura 9

Gennett 13

Lucroy 16

Ramirez 18

Lind 22

Davis 24

Gomez 28

Braun 31

[chewy522]

I never understand why people always crave base stealing at the top of the order. How many times have you heard someone complain about a baserunner getting thrown out with a good hitter at the plate. I would rather have my speed demons at the 5-8 spot so they can try to self manufacture a run with worse hitters up.

 

Now, Gomez needs to be in the top of the order because he is just an overall good hitter, but having him bat 5th wouldn't be the worst so he can steal with singles hitters behind him like segura or gennett so he can score from second. OBP and good baserunning should be valued at the top of the order, not base stealing.

[brewcrewdue80]

I do not think RR has ever implemented a vs LHP and vs RHP lineup. He loves the consistency and the relaxed atmosphere a stable lineup brings. Since Lucroy hit so many doubles, I will ask who is the best base runner (fastest). So, I think we will end up...

 

Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, ARAM, Lind, Davis, Gennett, Segura

 

The wrinkle will be when a leftie pitches, Lind is out, and all move up a spot and Maldonado hits eight; but still the guys are comfy, as the batters before and after them are the same

 

Gomez, Lucroy, Braun, ARAM, Davis, Gennett, Segura, Maldonado

 

Well, Last season, 1b didn't matter where he batted them they weren't getting .700OPS from them. Now, you're looking at a Lefty 1b with an .860OPS vs Righties and .588 vs Lefties Split that last season was .942/.223 Do you really waste a .900-ish OPS Lefty batting him 5th behind ARam? Then you have Scooter Gennett. .846OPS RHP/.291OPS LHP. I just feel RRR has to play the matchups in his favor. Scooter offers above .300BA vs Righties. That's Leadoff stuff. Gomez is a Power/Speed combo and I just think he deserves coming to bat with runners on base. Braun is the question mark, and ST isn't going to answer it, as he hit for power early on making all believe he was back to his #3 self. Now that we know his thumb can sap that pullpower from him, how long will he be a #3 hitter? If you go by the numbers, batting Braun #2 vs Lefties makes sense and batting him 5th vs Righties then makes sense with putting Lucroy #3 vs Lefties and #2 vs Righties. Gomez bats leadoff vs Lefties and #3 vs Righties. Lind #4 when he plays vs Righties. ARam can bat #4 vs Lefties. #6 vs Righties.

 

Comfort with the lineup is mental. Putting up the numbers they post and winning games because of it should be the biggest factor. Team has to take advantage of Lind/Gennett's RHP split positives and bat them atop the front half of the order. That also addresses Braun+ARam's split deficiencies vs RHP. Near .900OPS belong atop the order. Near .750OPS or less belong lower in the order. It's also ARam's final season, time to reduce his PAs at the #4 vs what is now a problem for him and a reason why he wants to retire after the season. Lind should likely stay for 2016 get him used to that #4 spot. Gomez/Lucroy/Braun are all professionals with talent, it shouldn't affect their ABs being 1,2,3,4 or 5.

 

I think the only spot spoken for is #8 currently with SS. until there's a response to play any higher.

[JohnBriggs12]

With the suggestion of Braun hitting leadoff I just wanted to look at the numbers a little closer. If getting on base is the main thing you want, then Lind is you guy. I get that getting on base is the most important thing to do but I still am a believer in there needs to be a core of guys 3-5 that are able to knock in runs. I believe Gomez is one of those guys along with Braun and Lind.

 

Lineup with AVG's of Last Two Seasons Combined

Gennett (.331obp/.449slg)

Lucroy (.357obp/.460slg)

Braun (.348obp/.476slg *I'm a believe that these will increase with health)

Gomez (his #'s the last two season are incredible. .347 obp/.492 slg)

Lind (.369obp/.488slg *yes those numbers are correct, he can hit!)

Aram (.350obp/.444 slg *numbers are close to what we may expect, maybe a minor dip)

Davis (.311obp/.487slg *hopefully a slight increase in OBP at least)

Segura (.309obp/.375slg *ick, just ick. Please Sardinias, be good)

 

Ramirez slugged .376 from July 1 on last year and only walked 10 times in that stretch. I'm in the camp that he slumped badly in large part because he's hit the wall. I expect a major dip not a minor one.

 

Very well could be right. I'm just in the camp of he had a lot of leg injuries that hindered his performance. My faith is in it that he worked his tail off in the off season to get in the best shape possible to continue his career. If he didn't, it will show up right away and no one will be signing him a year from now.

 

 

Ramirez is just as vulnerable if not more to the muscle pulls that he battled last year. No amount of conditioning changes that. It's what happens when you get older. He can stay healthy but that requires him to refrain from running all out on the bases. That's what he was doing most of last year. It wasn't because he was still hurt, it was because either consciously or sub-consciously he wanted to prevent another pull. Any lineup where he's got gap hitters like Lind and Davis behind him is ill-conceived because Ramirez can't get from first to home on balls hit in the gaps.

[Ennder]

Ramirez was great for half of the season last year and part of that half of the season was in the 2nd half, stop trying to post small samples to try to prove he is done because it just makes you look foolish. Here is a small sample for you, from June 12th until September 2nd he posted an .869 OPS. He wasn't just awful all 2nd half, he had 2 slumps, one early in the season and one in September. We have no idea what he is going to be this year.

 

Sorry but this stuff drives me nuts, at least look at what you are posting before you post it. He had a crappy final 3 weeks just like most of the offense did, it doesn't mean he is just done and should bat 8th. Posting only his 2nd half splits doesn't come close to showing the truth, his slide in the 2nd half was almost completely the final 3 weeks. Was he tired? Was he hurt? Did we just face good pitching since everyone slumped? Did the whole team give up? Who knows. But he didn't fall off the entire 2nd half like you want to say he did.

 

It is hard enough to judge a player by a single full season of PA but when you start dissecting it to smaller samples you can make the data look any way you want it to. We just have no idea what he is going to be this year. He could be done, he could be an all star, both are just as likely.

[ewitkows]

I never understand why people always crave base stealing at the top of the order. How many times have you heard someone complain about a baserunner getting thrown out with a good hitter at the plate. I would rather have my speed demons at the 5-8 spot so they can try to self manufacture a run with worse hitters up.

 

Now, Gomez needs to be in the top of the order because he is just an overall good hitter, but having him bat 5th wouldn't be the worst so he can steal with singles hitters behind him like segura or gennett so he can score from second. OBP and good baserunning should be valued at the top of the order, not base stealing.

Normally guys who are good base stealers are the fastest guys on the team . So not only could they steal 2nd they could go 1st to 3rd on a single. It gives the pitcher more to think about and hopefully make a bad pitch.

[Ennder]

No spot in the order comes up with the bases empty more often than a leadoff hitter, especially in the NL where we pretend pitchers can hit.

 

That means that OBP is king since you want them to get on base. That heavy power is generally wasted since it gives more of an advantage in lower parts of the order. It also makes strike outs not hurt you so they no longer matter much other than the fact that K generally are a negative for OBP. It makes walks just as good as singles. It also means that speed is going to be more helpful since you will usually be on 1B or 2B with no outs when you do get on and speed is at its premium at that spot.

 

So the absolute best leadoff hitters are guys that can run who get on a lot, probably don't have a ton of power but can still take a walk and if they have to get those walks by getting strike outs too it is no big deal at all. The biggest misnomer I've seen is those who believe that K's are somehow bad for a leadoff hitter, there is no spot in the lineup that they hurt you less in. OBP is pretty much king. If you K to the point where you OBP stinks that is an issue but outside of that they just don't matter.

[bill hAll Star]

Ron says he's deciding between Scooter and Gomez for the leadoff position.

 

If he puts a .150 OBP guy out there against lefties 1/3 - 1/4 of our games I'm not going to bother watching. His "roles over reason" strategy make him one of the worst managers in baseball.

[SoupTown]

i can handle scooter gomez lucroy braun aram lind davis segura v righties

 

then v lefties the same lineup starting with gomez scooter 8th

[pacopete4]

Ron says he's deciding between Scooter and Gomez for the leadoff position.

 

If he puts a .150 OBP guy out there against lefties 1/3 - 1/4 of our games I'm not going to bother watching. His "roles over reason" strategy make him one of the worst managers in baseball.

 

 

This is where it bothers me that he cannot, or the team members cannot, handle hitting in different spots in the order if there is a lefty or righty pitching. Now, maybe Gennett will hit lefties OK but I'd rather have my best hitters at the top of the lineup at all times. Against righties, that includes Gennett. Against lefties, it probably never will.

[bill hAll Star]

That's my issue with it, really. Gennett has shown zero history except maybe in the low minors of hitting lefties. I'll wait until it actually happens but I really hope he isn't going to waste a month of the season finding out that Gennett cannot hit lefties. Saying, "I hope that Logan Schafer develops into a good leadoff hitter" is almost as hopeless as hoping Gennett does against lefties and throwing him in there until it inevitably fails.

[FVBrewerFan]

I disagree. I have no problem giving Scooter the chance to lead-off against LHP to see how he handles it. It's now or never. It's worth the exercise, because if he's even decent you have your lead-off hitter for the next 5 years. Just because he wasn't great in the minors or a limited sample size in MLB doesn't mean he's not capable of doing it now. I have no proof that he can, other than a gut feeling he can.

 

But I must say, this year I have no idea what the line-up should be, and I haven't felt that way for many years. For example, I could see Braun in the 2-4 spot. I would really love to move ARam down in the line-up because I smell a decline. Lucroy you can put virtually anywhere. Would like to experiment again with Segura at #2, but he's probably the odd man out. Lind I would like to see higher in the line-up, but just no room. There are just so many variables. How important is having the line-up R-L-R-L-R? Do you want Gomez at the top or in a run producing role. Ditto for Lucroy.

[PrinceEatMeat]

I think the two options are this:

 

#1

Gomez

Lucroy

Braun

Ramirez

Lind

Davis

Gennett

Segura

 

#2

Gennett

Lucroy

Braun

Ramirez

Gomez

Lind

Davis

Segura

 

I'd lean towards the first one for now, mainly because I'd like to see how well Scooter can handle LHP for awhile before throwing him into the leadoff spot. Neither of these are my preferred options, but they seem to be Roenicke's so we'll have to deal with it.

[bill hAll Star]

I disagree. I have no problem giving Scooter the chance to lead-off against LHP to see how he handles it. It's now or never. It's worth the exercise, because if he's even decent you have your lead-off hitter for the next 5 years. Just because he wasn't great in the minors or a limited sample size in MLB doesn't mean he's not capable of doing it now. I have no proof that he can, other than a gut feeling he can.

 

But I must say, this year I have no idea what the line-up should be, and I haven't felt that way for many years. For example, I could see Braun in the 2-4 spot. I would really love to move ARam down in the line-up because I smell a decline. Lucroy you can put virtually anywhere. Would like to experiment again with Segura at #2, but he's probably the odd man out. Lind I would like to see higher in the line-up, but just no room. There are just so many variables. How important is having the line-up R-L-R-L-R? Do you want Gomez at the top or in a run producing role. Ditto for Lucroy.

 

I'm of the mind that Scooter will never be near average at hitting lefties, so if you want to hit him 8, then fine. I think he's a very nice piece to the team, but should be platooned.

 

In a year where we've pushed payroll near our max and did not sell the farm for the future, we're going to waste a month finding this out? I mean, a small amount of data tells us that Logan Schafer is not going to be a good MLB hitter at all, but let's just put him at cleanup to find out, right?

[FVBrewerFan]

In a year where we've pushed payroll near our max and did not sell the farm for the future, we're going to waste a month finding this out? I mean, a small amount of data tells us that Logan Schafer is not going to be a good MLB hitter at all, but let's just put him at cleanup to find out, right?

 

There's a difference between a calculated risk and insanity. Every team takes calculated risks every year. The Brewers did it last year, handing the LF spot to Davis. This year, they're throwing Nelson into the rotation. Trying to get one more productive year out of ARam and KRod. These are all calculated risks.

 

Same is true with Scooter, but I can see it either way. I would give it a try, but can see why others would not want to play him at all aginst LHP, or at least hit him 8th.

[bill hAll Star]

In a year where we've pushed payroll near our max and did not sell the farm for the future, we're going to waste a month finding this out? I mean, a small amount of data tells us that Logan Schafer is not going to be a good MLB hitter at all, but let's just put him at cleanup to find out, right?

 

There's a difference between a calculated risk and insanity. Every team takes calculated risks every year. The Brewers did it last year, handing the LF spot to Davis. This year, they're throwing Nelson into the rotation. Trying to get one more productive year out of ARam and KRod. These are all calculated risks.

 

Same is true with Scooter, but I can see it either way. I would give it a try, but can see why others would not want to play him at all aginst LHP, or at least hit him 8th.

 

Calculated risk:

Nelson = stud prospect and had a 1.something ERA in AAA.

Davis = crushed his way through the minors

 

Borderline insanity:

Gennett = has not really ever hit lefties too well beyond A ball.

 

There is a difference between a calculated risk and something that is doomed to fail. If Mark and Doug had traded off all of our vets for prospects, I'd be fine giving Scooter a shot on opening day because who cares? However, it's just wishful thinking that will almost surely go wrong and hurt our opening month(s) until we decide that Scooter cannot hit them.

[FVBrewerFan]

When the alternative is Hector Gomez, it's not insanity. Young lefty hitters often struggle mightily against LHP early in their careers. Some get past it, some never do. But the only way they have a shot is to actually see more LHP. May be one step back, two steps forward. I do get I'm ignoring stats, and going by what I see/feel which is always dangerous. But I could see him as a guy capable of slapping enough balls to LF, and maybe one day driving the ball.

 

Look, with all the middle IF they have now in the system, I don't even know if he's the long term answer at 2B. I'm willing to give it a shot, only because I don't believe having him face LHP instead of Hector Gomez is going to determine the season. Especially since we're only talking about the first 2-3 ABs each game. Do I want him up there in the 9th in a tie game vs LHP? No, I do not.

[bill hAll Star]

There are two different discussions:

 

1. Scooter not platooned - I really wish our management would understand that he should be platooned, but they didn't bring in much competence for the RH side of it.

 

2. Scooter leading off even against lefties - There is no argument for this. Given that #1 has no great options, at least put him at 8 in the order if the team is trying to win like it claims it is.

[SoupTown]

I am befuddled why Scooter would get any at bats leading off vs left hand starters. RR says it is 'between Carlos and Scooter' (as, of course, you cannot change the lineup leftie and rightie as the million dollar players would be too confused about not hitting in their normal spot every day)

 

But, can I give a compromise. This is as Gomez is tipped to be a middle order guy by RR. You bat Segura lead off vs lefties and 8th v righties. And you toggle him with Scooter. Scooter is lead off v righties and 8th v lefties. Now Segura and Scooter are not yet multi million dollar prima donnas who can only perform if they see their name in same spot each game.

[monty57]

You bat Segura lead off vs lefties and 8th v righties. And you toggle him with Scooter. Scooter is lead off v righties and 8th v lefties

 

Crazy talk. The little known 11th Commandment is that once players are put in a position in the lineup, they must remain in that position regardless of age, ability or performance. That's why Gennett will hit leadoff vs. LHP and why Ramirez will still be our cleanup hitter even though he's no longer the player he once was.

 

Sarcasm aside, that would be a really good idea. I'm kind of down on Segura, but hitting him leadoff in the roughly 20% of the games a LHP starts wouldn't be bad, and Gennett should probably not even bat against LHP, much less lead off against them. Putting him 8th vs LHP would limit the damage vs LHP, and would put H. Gomez in the 8th spot in the order on the days he plays 2B vs LHP (because of course the replacement has to take the spot in the lineup of the person he's replacing).

[pacopete4]

You bat Segura lead off vs lefties and 8th v righties.

 

The same Segura with a career .311 OBP? Or even better yet a career .305 OBP against lefties??

 

This move would be absolutely insane to do since we actually have really good hitters at just about every other position. Heck, if you're going to be insane, why not just put Davis in the leadoff against lefties? He is a career .311 OBP but at least supports a .486 SLG compared to .371 of Segura.

 

 

Segura should bat 8th to start the year and if he hits like a sally as he did last season and part of the previous season, he should be demoted by the end of May.