Gold Gloves 2014

[Bombers]

Pretty disappointing that Molina won over Luc considering Molina missed 2 months

[craigharmann]

That's because Molina plays with class and plays the right way.......and he has neck tats.

[SRB]

I'm personally outraged that Yadier Molina did not win the Gold Glove for both catcher and first base. He played one game there and truly elevated first base defense to a new level. These voters are classless.

[1992casey]

Here are this year's winners:

 

[pre]Pitcher: Dallas Keuchel, Houston Astros | Zack Greinke, Los Angles Dodgers

Catcher: Salvador Perez, Kansas City Royals | Yadier Molina, St. Louis Cardinals

First Base: Eric Hosmer, Kansas City Royals | Adrian Gonzalez, Los Angeles Dodgers

Second Base: Dustin Pedroia, Boston Red Sox | DJ LeMahieu, Colorado Rockies

Shortstop: J.J. Hardy, Baltimore Orioles | Andrelton Simmons, Atlanta Braves

Third Base: Kyle Seager, Seattle Mariners | Nolan Arenado, Colorado Rockies

Left Field: Alex Gordon, Kansas City Royals | Christian Yelich, Miami Marlins

Center Field: Adam Jones, Baltimore Orioles | Juan Lagares, New York Mets

Right Field: Nick Markakis, Baltimore Orioles | Jason Heyward, Atlanta Braves[/pre]

[Invader3K]

Once again the voters prove the Gold Glove is more of a reputation award than anything. Oh well.

[rwa12]

I'm not sure you can say that, outside of the case against Molina. A lot of young names in the NL.

[CheezWizHed]

What are the thoughts of Juan Lagares over Gogo? I don't know Lagares, but I thought Gogo was the odds-on favorite.

 

Did his offensive swoon cause him to lose it? (half-blue)

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm not sure you can say that, outside of the case against Molina. A lot of young names in the NL.

 

Agreed. I think a case can be made as to whether or not Yadier played enough for consideration. Obviously, the voters don't care about that though because Arenado played 1 more game than Yadier did.

[pacopete4]

Molina is a superior catcher to Lucroy. He is overall and he was even last season. If you don't think so, you really do not know anything about catchers.

[CheezWizHed]

Most people probably recognize that Molina head-to-head is a better defensive catcher than Lucroy. But factoring in his missing couple months, it makes it a more interesting discussion.

 

Stating that if you don't agree with my opinion, then you are stupid is pretty lowbrow...

[pacopete4]

Most people probably recognize that Molina head-to-head is a better defensive catcher than Lucroy. But factoring in his missing couple months, it makes it a more interesting discussion.

 

Stating that if you don't agree with my opinion, then you are stupid is pretty lowbrow...

 

You're right, it would be low if it were only my own opinion. Honestly, I would love to meet the people who think Luc is a better catcher. I need a good laugh these days.

[TURBO]

Most people probably recognize that Molina head-to-head is a better defensive catcher than Lucroy. But factoring in his missing couple months, it makes it a more interesting discussion.

 

Stating that if you don't agree with my opinion, then you are stupid is pretty lowbrow...

 

You're right, it would be low if it were only my own opinion. Honestly, I would love to meet the people who think Luc is a better catcher. I need a good laugh these days.

 

*poking giant and bravely running away*

[CheezWizHed]

Let restate my point: How many games would Molina need to miss before Luc wins the GG over him? If Molina plays one game, does he automatically win? (By the way, that last question can also serve as a Cardinal troll test)

 

I'm not debating who is better overall. But who deserves the GG this year is a different question. Playing time narrows the gap.

[JohnBriggs12]

Either he qualifies for consideration or he doesn't. Molina still played in 110 games, far more than any other catcher on the Cardinals so that would qualify him in my book. The gap isn't as wide as it used to be but he's still the better catcher. Martin figures in the discussion as well.

[CheezWizHed]

Plus, don't forget that last year, Lucroy bested Molina in the most important defensive stats of all:

BA, OBP, and SLG

[pacopete4]

Let restate my point: How many games would Molina need to miss before Luc wins the GG over him? If Molina plays one game, does he automatically win? (By the way, that last question can also serve as a Cardinal troll test)

 

I'm not debating who is better overall. But who deserves the GG this year is a different question. Playing time narrows the gap.

 

 

When there is any other catcher that throws our 48% of his runners. The only one close was Russel Martin at 38%. Lucroy allowed 83... 83 runners to steal off of him. That is pitiful and is not Gold Glove worthy. In fact, it is so bad (dead last in terms of NL catchers), he shouldn't of even been put in the running for it.

 

Lucroy is a nice catcher, he frames well and can hit at a decent clip but he's no where near in the discussion for Gold Glover and probably never should be unless he grows an arm all of a sudden. 83! Wowzers. That's pathetic.

[CheezWizHed]

JB, I wasn't meaning he did or didn't qualify. More along the lines of which is better:

- 100% of very good

or

- 75% of excellent

[pacopete4]

Either he qualifies for consideration or he doesn't. Molina still played in 110 games, far more than any other catcher on the Cardinals so that would qualify him in my book. The gap isn't as wide as it used to be but he's still the better catcher. Martin figures in the discussion as well.

 

But he caught 20 more games than Molina. Surely that means he's better.

[CheezWizHed]

It could mean he meant more to his team defensively. Honestly, I thought it was more games than that. Molina missed two months didn't he?

 

Anyway, my point overall is that with all the discussion of Luc's improved defense, Molina missing some time, (and Posey too), that Luc should be in the discussion for GG.

 

And I half joke about Luc's offensive year, but that certainly put him on people's radar a lot more. If Molina's injury happened at the end of the year, I wouldn't have been surprised if Luc won it (deserving or not).

[dlk9s]

Lucroy allowed 83... 83 runners to steal off of him. That is pitiful and is not Gold Glove worthy. In fact, it is so bad (dead last in terms of NL catchers), he shouldn't of even been put in the running for it.

 

Lucroy is a nice catcher, he frames well and can hit at a decent clip but he's no where near in the discussion for Gold Glover and probably never should be unless he grows an arm all of a sudden. 83! Wowzers. That's pathetic.

I'm not saying that Lucroy is better at throwing out runners than Molina, but have you ever considered that our pitchers are pretty bad at holding runners? Because they are.

 

We revel at how great Maldonado is at gunning it down to second and he only threw out 31.6% of base stealers.

[pacopete4]

He threw out 7% more and doesn't get to play everyday. It's harder to catch one day a week than it is five days. We honestly would be better off moving Lucroy to another position if Maldonado figured it out at the plate. He's the superior catcher between the two and it isn't close between them defensively.

 

83 runners moved from 1st to 2nd... that's so bad I cannot wrap my head around it even. Wow. Bad.

[Thurston Fluff]

Let restate my point: How many games would Molina need to miss before Luc wins the GG over him? If Molina plays one game, does he automatically win? (By the way, that last question can also serve as a Cardinal troll test)

 

I'm not debating who is better overall. But who deserves the GG this year is a different question. Playing time narrows the gap.

 

 

When there is any other catcher that throws our 48% of his runners. The only one close was Russel Martin at 38%. Lucroy allowed 83... 83 runners to steal off of him. That is pitiful and is not Gold Glove worthy. In fact, it is so bad (dead last in terms of NL catchers), he shouldn't of even been put in the running for it.

 

Lucroy is a nice catcher, he frames well and can hit at a decent clip but he's no where near in the discussion for Gold Glover and probably never should be unless he grows an arm all of a sudden. 83! Wowzers. That's pathetic.

 

I always thought being a good defensive catcher was more than just throwing out base runners. Silly me. While I am far from a fan of WAR the general baseball world seems enthralled with it. According to DWAR Lucroy was 2 and Molina 1.5. In fact looking at the defensive metrics, other than throwing out base runners and pitch framing it was basically a tossup.

[pacopete4]

other than throwing out base runners and pitch framing it was basically a tossup.

 

 

LOL oh my. So two of the most important parts of being a catcher you say Molina is better but yet you want Lucroy to win the award because dWar says he's better? I find it a crock of bleep that Molina and Lucroy are even put in the same sentence if we are talking about how good they are defensively and I love Lucroy. Molina is a once in a lifetime player defensively and I enjoy the heck out of watching him catch. If he wasn't a Cardinal, this board wouldn't have a feather up their butts about him winning the award he should absolutely win.

 

Lucroy isnt even the best defensive catcher on his own team.

[dlk9s]

He threw out 7% more and doesn't get to play everyday.

That doesn't amount to much.

 

It's harder to catch one day a week than it is five days.

I would argue against this. We're not talking about pinch hitting.

[pacopete4]

He threw out 7% more and doesn't get to play everyday.

That doesn't amount to much.

 

It's harder to catch one day a week than it is five days.

I would argue against this. We're not talking about pinch hitting.

 

It may not be the exact same but it's the same concept. It is hard to do the job well only playing it maybe once a week. Way harder. Maldonado is the better defensive catcher and it's not close.

 

I was a catcher through college and completely understand how a lot of your success throwing out runners has to do with the pitchers but Lucroy is just not good at it. He's got sloppy technique, dropping his arm and he's not blessed with an extremely live arm. 83 runners guys. 83. It's insane. By far and away the worst in the league. Actually a little embarrassed for him.