Adam Lind acquired from Toronto for Marco Estrada

[fondybrewfan]

This seems like a solid first step towards improving the team next year. Estrada probably wasn't in the plans and Lind looks like a pretty solid get even if you need a platoon mate for the tougher lefties. You need a good right handed platoon that can also provide some good defense late in games if need be.

 

I think this is a good first step but probably shouldn't be the last if they really want to compete. Obviously 3rd needs to get resolved and they also need a good utility player or two and some bullpen help.

[Roderick]

I like this deal but I am not sure why people want to find more playing time for Maldonado by playing Lucroy at 1B.

 

I think they are looking at it more as a way to keep Lucroy healthier and more rested, but his bat still in the lineup. Maldy isn't a terrible hitter and plays great defense. As long as Lucroy is fine with it and he actually plays over there in spring training to get better defensively over there.

[BrewBalls]

This trade is definitely a step in the right direction. If Ramirez comes back our starting line up will be set. As others have already mentioned, our bench was limited last season because of Overbay and Weeks both being one dimensional players. Adding Rogers or Jimenez to play both corner infield spots, Parra to back up all three outfield positions is a good start. No adding a versatile platoon partner for Gennett (i.e. Bonifacio or Santiago) would only deepen our bench. Bonifacio will likely cost more than Santiago (2yr/$8M vs. 2yr/$4M). The last spot could go to Herrera if we sign Bonifacio since we still need a back up SS or a RH OF with some pop like Gomes or Ludwick to round out the bench. This group provides RR with flexibility late in games and when injuries do occur throughout the season. Our rotation should be set with Gallaro, Garza, Lohse, Peralta and Fiers unless Lohse or Gallardo is traded meaning Nelson would fill the 5th spot. I hope DM will sign a couple of veteran relievers off the scrap heap in January/February for depth. All in all, this roster is better constructed to handle the grind of a full season.

[JohnBriggs12]

We led the division for most of the season with, by far, the worst first base production in the division. Lind does not have to be great, he just has to be better than what we had.

 

Not true at all. Unless of course we're assuming every player from every team will play exactly the same next year. Which obviously won't happen.

 

Agree. Nothing is static in sports. One criticism I've had of Melvin is that while he can identify a problem and address it reasonably well, he's not inclined to anticipate another problem coming up that wasn't there before. Relying on a soon to be 37 year old Ramirez to be the player he's been even as recently as 2014 could be a huge mistake. Yes Melvin brought in Jiminez but that was insurance if Ramirez turned down the option rather than a move to replace him regardless.

[Thurston Fluff]

I've read several comments about how two platoons on the infield is going to hamper the bench. I don't think it has to. Bench players need to play enough to stay sharp and it makes sense to have a bench player who hits the opposite hand of the starter. I don't see the downside. I realize last season's platoons at first and second weren't ideal due to the lack of versatility of both bench players but that was due to fairly unique circumstances with Weeks than anything. We can find two guys can play of all the infield positions between them to avoid that problem this time around.

I'm also not sold on the idea of Gennett being a platoon either. I think they will let him get some games against lefties in an effort to get him to hit a little better against them.

[Daubs]

Lind's OBP and SLG since 2009:

 

2010: .287 OBP, .425 SLG

2011: .295 OBP, ,439 SLG

2012: .314 OBP, .414 SLG

2013: .357 OBP, .497 SLG

2014: .381 OBP, .489 SLG

 

Lind splits in that timeframe:

 

2010

vs RHP: 432 AB .275/.327/.502/.829

vs LHP: 137 AB .117/.159/.182/.341

 

2011

vs RHP: 359 AB .253/.303/.468/.771

vs LHP: 140 AB .243/.275/.364/.639

 

2012

vs RHP 232 AB .276/.339/.457/.795

vs LHP 89 AB .202/.250/.303/.553

 

2013

vs RHP 369 AB .309/.385/.539/.924

vs LHP 96 AB .208/.240/.333/.573

 

2014

vs RHP 357 AB .354/.409/.533/.942

vs LHP 33 AB .061/.162/.061/.223

 

Essentially, he should NEVER see the field against a LHP.

[fondybrewfan]

He probably couldn't be as bad as he was against LH in 2014 if he tried; but you are absolutely right his AB's against lefties should be few and far between. Maybe you let him go against medicore lefties every once in a while but he probably has not shot against the good starters or loogies.

[gregmag]

This is very close to a something for nothing deal. I don't mean that Estrada sucks; I actually like him. But the Brewers have younger, cheaper back-of-the-rotation candidates with higher upside. He helped us a lot as an innings-eating long reliever, but if we need him desperately in that role again we're toast anyway. Lind has obvious limitations, as Stache and others have pointed out, but he also has obvious strengths that fill a big hole on this team. He's being paid reasonable money for two years. As with the Ramirez option, I don't think this commitment is big enough to block us from getting a better, younger 1b if one magically becomes available. Marginal improvement at very low cost. Not a world-beating move, but under all the circumstances a smart one.

[monty57]

Lind fills a need, and Estrada was a non-tender candidate, so I agree with gregmag on the "something for nothing" angle. When I was looking at possible moves this offseason, I didn't even figure Estrada's salary in. I just figured he'd be let go to free up cash for someone more valuable to the team.

 

With this deal and Ramirez signing, our ten "expensive" players (Ramirez, Braun, Lucroy, Gallardo, Lohse, Garza, Broxton, Gomez, Lind, and Parra) add up to $97.4MM. Even if we could fill the rest of the team with pre-arby guys, at $550k each the other 15 positions would add $8.25MM, pushing us to $105.65MM. I think we still owe Weeks some money, Maldonado will be in first year arby, and I don't think we have 15 pre-arby guys available to fill the positions, so the number is going to be higher than that. I can't see the team going much higher, so unless an expensive player is traded, I don't think we'll see many more additons. Thoughts of guys like Bonafacio or a veteran set-up guy are probably pipe dreams.

 

That means guys like Jimenez and Rogers will fight for the backup corner IF spot, someone like Herrera will be the backup middle IF, and our bullpen is pretty much set as is. Of course, we're losing a lot of talent (Gallardo, Lohse, Ramirez, Broxton, Parra) for nothing at the end of the season, so maybe Attanasio will risk playing in the red for one last shot at the playoffs.

[SRB]

What about this trade?

 

To LAD:

Yovani Gallardo, SP

 

To MIL:

Scott Van Slyke, 1B/OF (kills LHP, platoons w/ Lind)

Darwin Barney, INF (favors LHP, platoons w/ Scooter)

Kyle Farmer, C (top-20 Dodgers prospect, fills C hole in low-minors wave of prospects coming up)

 

Maybe throw in a RP or fringe P prospect coming to Milwaukee.

[trwi7]

What about this trade?

 

To LAD:

Yovani Gallardo, SP

 

To MIL:

Scott Van Slyke, 1B/OF (kills LHP, platoons w/ Lind)

Darwin Barney, INF (favors LHP, platoons w/ Scooter)

Kyle Farmer, C (top-20 Dodgers prospect, fills C hole in low-minors wave of prospects coming up)

 

Maybe throw in a RP or fringe P prospect coming to Milwaukee.

 

That's awful for us.

[monty57]

If Gallardo or Lohse is traded, I really hope we target a good pitching prospect who can hopefully step into the rotation around 2016 when we will really need rotation help, and not used to find a backup 1B.

 

Think of it this way: If Estrada can land us Lind, then Gallardo and Lohse should have a lot of trade value.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Gallardo or Lohse is traded, I really hope we target a good pitching prospect who can hopefully step into the rotation around 2016 when we will really need rotation help, and not used to find a backup 1B.

 

Think of it this way: If Estrada can land us Lind, then Gallardo and Lohse should have a lot of trade value.

 

Toronto was just looking to dump Lind's contract where ever they could. Gallardo and Lohse both have one year left on their contact. One is an average pitcher who is reaching his declining years and the other is 36 years old. Neither of those guys is going to get a substantial prospect on their own. They would need to be paired with someone of value like Gomez.

[BrewBalls]

If Gallardo or Lohse is traded, I really hope we target a good pitching prospect who can hopefully step into the rotation around 2016 when we will really need rotation help, and not used to find a backup 1B.

 

Think of it this way: If Estrada can land us Lind, then Gallardo and Lohse should have a lot of trade value.

 

Toronto was just looking to dump Lind's contract where ever they could. Gallardo and Lohse both have one year left on their contact. One is an average pitcher who is reaching his declining years and the other is 36 years old. Neither of those guys is going to get a substantial prospect on their own. They would need to be paired with someone of value like Gomez.

One year of a middle of the rotation starter with a reasonable salary is worth at least a top 50-75 prospect. Gomez would require three top 20 players froma good farm system (a top 15 MLB prospect along with another top 100 MLB prospect and a mid level player). Proven players are valuable to teams looking to contend. Look what we gave up for Marcum. Lawrie was ranked #26 in 2010. I think you are undervaluing Gallardo and Lohse.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Gallardo or Lohse is traded, I really hope we target a good pitching prospect who can hopefully step into the rotation around 2016 when we will really need rotation help, and not used to find a backup 1B.

 

Think of it this way: If Estrada can land us Lind, then Gallardo and Lohse should have a lot of trade value.

 

Toronto was just looking to dump Lind's contract where ever they could. Gallardo and Lohse both have one year left on their contact. One is an average pitcher who is reaching his declining years and the other is 36 years old. Neither of those guys is going to get a substantial prospect on their own. They would need to be paired with someone of value like Gomez.

One year of a middle of the rotation starter with a reasonable salary is worth at least a top 50-75 prospect. Gomez would require three top 20 players froma good farm system (a top 15 MLB prospect along with another top 100 MLB prospect and a mid level player). Proven players are valuable to teams looking to contend. Look what we gave up for Marcum. Lawrie was ranked #26 in 2010. I think you are undervaluing Gallardo and Lohse.

 

The Marcum/Lawrie trade was an overpay by the Brewers because Lawrie had fallen out of favor with management. Marcum was also 28, cheap, and had 3 years of team control. Gallardo is about that same age but doesn't have the other two going for him. Lohse has none of them.

[SRB]

What about this trade?

 

To LAD:

Yovani Gallardo, SP

 

To MIL:

Scott Van Slyke, 1B/OF (kills LHP, platoons w/ Lind)

Darwin Barney, INF (favors LHP, platoons w/ Scooter)

Kyle Farmer, C (top-20 Dodgers prospect, fills C hole in low-minors wave of prospects coming up)

 

Maybe throw in a RP or fringe P prospect coming to Milwaukee.

 

That's awful for us.

 

I don't think that's unrealistic at all, and if improves the team more than holding onto Gallardo does.

[monty57]

Gallardo and Lohse both have one year left on their contact. One is an average pitcher who is reaching his declining years and the other is 36 years old. Neither of those guys is going to get a substantial prospect on their own. They would need to be paired with someone of value like Gomez.

 

The Marcum/Lawrie trade was an overpay by the Brewers because Lawrie had fallen out of favor with management. Marcum was also 28, cheap, and had 3 years of team control. Gallardo is about that same age but doesn't have the other two going for him. Lohse has none of them.

 

Then we are in for a long, painful year, because we're relying on those two to play substantial roles on the 2015 team. I'm not expecting Buxton back, but Gallardo or Lohse should bring back a Top 100 prospect back - a guy with a lot of upside, but some warts. Someone around Nelson's caliber.

 

One year of a middle of the rotation starter with a reasonable salary is worth at least a top 50-75 prospect. Gomez would require three top 20 players froma good farm system (a top 15 MLB prospect along with another top 100 MLB prospect and a mid level player). Proven players are valuable to teams looking to contend. Look what we gave up for Marcum. Lawrie was ranked #26 in 2010. I think you are undervaluing Gallardo and Lohse.

 

That's about what I'd expect, but I highly doubt we'll trade any of them unless we're far out of the playoff race at trade deadline. More likely we'll watch a whole lot of talent walk away for nothing when the season's over.

[BrewBalls]

 

The Marcum/Lawrie trade was an overpay by the Brewers because Lawrie had fallen out of favor with management. Marcum was also 28, cheap, and had 3 years of team control. Gallardo is about that same age but doesn't have the other two going for him. Lohse has none of them.

 

Gallardo has a much better track record than Marcum and has shown to be much more durable. Teams will pony up for proven and durable quality pitcher on a reasonable contract. I know Jeff Samardzija is considered to be a better pitcher than Gallardo but if he along with an over achieving Jason Hammel can return the Addison (#3 prospect), McKinney (#7 ranked A's prospect to end 2013) and Straily (#73 top prospect in 2012, who at 24 posted a 98 ERA+ over his first full season as a starter), I'm sure Gallardo is worth one top 50-100 prospect. I know someone mentioned Garin Cecchini (#55). I could see Luke Jackson (#70), Luis Severino (#62), Dominic Smith (#81), Hunter Dozier (#86) all being potential returns for Yovanni.

[3and2Fastball]

Lind fills a need, and Estrada was a non-tender candidate, so I agree with gregmag on the "something for nothing" angle. When I was looking at possible moves this offseason, I didn't even figure Estrada's salary in. I just figured he'd be let go to free up cash for someone more valuable to the team.

 

With this deal and Ramirez signing, our ten "expensive" players (Ramirez, Braun, Lucroy, Gallardo, Lohse, Garza, Broxton, Gomez, Lind, and Parra) add up to $97.4MM. Even if we could fill the rest of the team with pre-arby guys, at $550k each the other 15 positions would add $8.25MM, pushing us to $105.65MM. I think we still owe Weeks some money, Maldonado will be in first year arby, and I don't think we have 15 pre-arby guys available to fill the positions, so the number is going to be higher than that. I can't see the team going much higher, so unless an expensive player is traded, I don't think we'll see many more additons. Thoughts of guys like Bonafacio or a veteran set-up guy are probably pipe dreams.

 

That means guys like Jimenez and Rogers will fight for the backup corner IF spot, someone like Herrera will be the backup middle IF, and our bullpen is pretty much set as is. Of course, we're losing a lot of talent (Gallardo, Lohse, Ramirez, Broxton, Parra) for nothing at the end of the season, so maybe Attanasio will risk playing in the red for one last shot at the playoffs.

 

That is a little scary to think that we may be essentially done

[trwi7]

What about this trade?

 

To LAD:

Yovani Gallardo, SP

 

To MIL:

Scott Van Slyke, 1B/OF (kills LHP, platoons w/ Lind)

Darwin Barney, INF (favors LHP, platoons w/ Scooter)

Kyle Farmer, C (top-20 Dodgers prospect, fills C hole in low-minors wave of prospects coming up)

 

Maybe throw in a RP or fringe P prospect coming to Milwaukee.

 

That's awful for us.

 

I don't think that's unrealistic at all, and if improves the team more than holding onto Gallardo does.

 

How does that improve the team? Two weakside platoon players (including one terrible one in Darwin Barney) and a catching prospect who's 24 and played most of the year in the Midwest League.

 

If that's what we can get for Gallardo, it's much better to just keep him.

[BrewBalls]

Lind fills a need, and Estrada was a non-tender candidate, so I agree with gregmag on the "something for nothing" angle. When I was looking at possible moves this offseason, I didn't even figure Estrada's salary in. I just figured he'd be let go to free up cash for someone more valuable to the team.

 

With this deal and Ramirez signing, our ten "expensive" players (Ramirez, Braun, Lucroy, Gallardo, Lohse, Garza, Broxton, Gomez, Lind, and Parra) add up to $97.4MM. Even if we could fill the rest of the team with pre-arby guys, at $550k each the other 15 positions would add $8.25MM, pushing us to $105.65MM. I think we still owe Weeks some money, Maldonado will be in first year arby, and I don't think we have 15 pre-arby guys available to fill the positions, so the number is going to be higher than that. I can't see the team going much higher, so unless an expensive player is traded, I don't think we'll see many more additons. Thoughts of guys like Bonafacio or a veteran set-up guy are probably pipe dreams.

 

That means guys like Jimenez and Rogers will fight for the backup corner IF spot, someone like Herrera will be the backup middle IF, and our bullpen is pretty much set as is. Of course, we're losing a lot of talent (Gallardo, Lohse, Ramirez, Broxton, Parra) for nothing at the end of the season, so maybe Attanasio will risk playing in the red for one last shot at the playoffs.

 

That is a little scary to think that we may be essentially done

 

I have to believe DM and MA knew there was a chance Ramirez was coming back and have other moves in mind or money available to fill out the roster. Although having Jimenez or Rogers backing up the corners or a versatile player like Herrera on the bench is not a bad thing IMO. With Parra as our 4th OF we can go with Clark as our LH power bat off and sign someone like Santiago (2yrs/$3.5M) to platoon with Scooter.

[SRB]

How does that improve the team? Two weakside platoon players (including one terrible one in Darwin Barney) and a catching prospect who's 24 and played most of the year in the Midwest League.

 

If that's what we can get for Gallardo, it's much better to just keep him.

 

Van Slyke could be the everyday 1B after Lind passes on. I guess this scenario is contingent on the Brewers evaluating Van Slyke as a (non-elite but serviceable) major league regular. Make fun of Barney all you want, but we NEED two weak side platoon players on the roster given our current starting 1B/2B, and absent some type of trade we are looking at a bunch of scrubs from within the organization.

 

Gallardo is fine, but one of Nelson/Fiers can take his place. Yes, it's nice to have a solid sixth starter, but I would rather deal from a position of strength than roll into the season with a patchwork bench yet again. The other reason to trade Gallardo is that it frees up considerably money to bring in a plus RP or another bench player.

 

I suppose if we shopped Gallardo we might be able to get a better return in a vacuum (either prospects or better major leaguers), but I was just looking at pieces Los Angeles has that fill our relatively specific needs.

[3and2Fastball]

I seriously doubt even Melvin and/or Mark A think that simply acquiring Lind is enough to put us over the top to be a playoff team.

 

Although I suppose maybe they are playing the "IF Game" to go along with that thinking:

 

If Braun returns to the MVP caliber player. If Segura plays like he did in the first half of 2013. If everyone stays healthy. If Davis develops like they think he will. If Peralta becomes a Cy Young candidate etc etc

 

Still scary

[endaround]

If the Brewers could get Van Slyke for Gallardo that would be great. People are way overestimating Gallardo's value. He right now projects as a #3-4 starter with a WAR in the 1.5 to 2 range. That's worth in the range of $10.5 to $14 million. He's making $13 million. There just isn't a lot of excess value there.

 

Compare that to Marcum who was going to be worth in the range of 4.5-6.0 wins over two years. A value of $27 to $36 million at a salary of less than $12 million.

[chickinbrickin]

If the Brewers could get Van Slyke for Gallardo that would be great. People are way overestimating Gallardo's value. He right now projects as a #3-4 starter with a WAR in the 1.5 to 2 range. That's worth in the range of $10.5 to $14 million. He's making $13 million. There just isn't a lot of excess value there.

 

Compare that to Marcum who was going to be worth in the range of 4.5-6.0 wins over two years. A value of $27 to $36 million at a salary of less than $12 million.

 

I think you are underestimating his value. A proven pitcher who is a lock to toss 180-200 innings and post an ERA in the mid to high 3s has quite a bit of value. Van Slyke is a nice player, but trading Yo should get a much better return.