Adam Lind acquired from Toronto for Marco Estrada

[3and2Fastball]

Thanks to the interleague schedule, Lind has faced NL pitchers before, albeit in small samples

 

I'd be shocked if Melvin is done. There are still plenty of pieces to put in place.

[NievesNoNO]

I like this as a quick first move that makes the team better. I'd much rather go with Lind and whoever as opposed to signing LaRoche to what will likely be a fairly hefty price tag. It's not a high profile type move but short of trading Gomez or Lucroy I don't think there's going to be any jaw dropping trades or signings. I'd say this team has one more shot for everything to fall into place next year before they should consider tearing it down. It at least feels like the organization has a short term plan for this off-season as to what they'd like to accomplish.

[TheCrew07]

The danger here is assuming that everything else will stay consistent from last year, which is basically how MA and DM manage the roster. 1B sucks so they go out and get 1B who hits RHP well but meanwhile a different leak springs someplace else... it's a never ending cycle. They patch the bullpen and the starting pitching sucks, they patch the starting pitching and the bullpen sucks, the defense sucks so they target better defenders and then the offense sucks... around and around we go.

 

The simple truth is that this team has never been 1 or 2 players away, not ever with the current Front Office staff or Ownership. Lind is a huge upgrade from Overbay from a power perspective, but somehow oldy Overbay was fairly clutch notching 35 RBI in only 258 ABs. I'm not championing RBIs but I am pointing out much like when the team won the majority of Braden Looper's starts that replacing a bad player who experiences some good fortune and/or over performed with someone better doesn't necessarily equate to more wins the following season. On paper there's no doubt who the better player is, but the ultimate result on the field may not be what people expect.

 

I liked Lind as a prospect way back in the day, but he's another 1 year patch, maybe 2 who's the wrong side of 30. I do understand the thinking, it's a RHP heavy division, he mashes RHP, I get all that... but he's also facing the downside of his career and is a liability with the glove which will hurt his total net value. Do I think a move like this vaults us past the Cards and Pirates (assuming Kingham and Taillon end up pitching for them next year)? No I don't, I think too many posters are being dismissive of what's happening in Chicago as well because they have so many prospects. Well the Brewers once had this awesome wave of prospects and after next year Braun and Lucroy will be the only ones left. Yes prospects fail, but they also succeed, and we hit HRs with Fielder, Braun, Hardy, Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi, and Lucroy. We had a massive flame out of our own in Manny Parra, and I'm sure one of the Cubs' prospects will flame out as badly, but the difference is that they have 4 players to cover SS and 2B, 3 for 3B, 2 for CF, and 3 for the corner OF... many of those guys have positional flexibility and can play more than one position. All they need to do long term to contend is to add MLB quality pitching and it just so happens they have an avalanche of money to do so in FA over the next 2 seasons. Our best hope is that they sign the wrong guys and stumble along with mediocre pitching for a while, but I don't think that's a realistic possibility with their front office staff.

[foster1087]

Maybe this paves the way of getting Corey Hart back to platoon with Lind. Not sure if I am serious or not.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Maybe this paves the way of getting Corey Hart back to platoon with Lind. Not sure if I am serious or not.

 

I kind of hope you're not. Actually, I really hope you're not.

[DuWayne Steurer]

@ TheCrew07..... I don't think this is a fix-all (quite obviously), but I think it is an (again, obviously) upgrade over Overbay. Overbay (somehow) was very clutch in RISP situations last year, but as we all know, those numbers fluctuate wildly from year to year. Clutch isn't a stat (and I know I'm preaching to the choir here.)

 

Ideally, I wish we had a young 1B to turn to...but we don't. Hunter Morris isn't the answer. Matt Clark isn't the answer. Jason Rodgers probably isn't the answer (though I think he can be a serviceable bench/RH platoon guy)

 

I'm looking at this in the vein of "what's available" and "what do we have to play the position"....and the answer was "not much" and "not much". Lind isn't a world beater, but he's probably more than marginally better than what we had, and we have nobody in the system. If we were going to tank and rebuild, I'd be fine with handing the position to Clark or Morris or Rodgers, but we all know that's not what Melvin and Attanasio are going to do. Lind isn't hugely expensive, and doesn't make much more than what Estrada would have made next year anyways.

 

I'm not ecstatic about this move, but I feel better about 1B today than I did yesterday.

[The stache]

Secondly, no, we really don't have enough of "those guys". If Reynolds is gone, we have two guys that hit 20 home runs last year, Davis and Gomez.

 

We DO have enough of these guys. Khris Davis played in 144 games last season putting up a 2.1 WAR to Lind's 1.9 in 96 games. He provides you a better approach, and his numbers are probably favored to increase playing 81 at Miller Park.

 

Whoa, wait a minute. You're comparing Lind, who was in his ninth season in the Majors, to Davis, who was in his first full time season as a Major Leaguer? I would hope after being in the Majors for nearly a decade, he would have a more refined approach than Davis.

 

At the same point in their careers, Davis blows Lind out of the water. Compare their first 700 or so plate appearances, Lind's between 2006-2008, and Davis' in 2013 and 2014:

 

Lind: 725 plate appearances, 676 at bats. 90 runs, 183 hits, 38 doubles, 4 triples, 22 home runs, 94 RBI. .309/.436/.745 96 OPS +

Davis: 702 plate appearances, 637 at bats. 97 runs, 160 hits, 47 doubles, 2 triples, 33 home runs, 96 RBI. .311/.487//797 117 OPS +.

 

And Baseball America had Lind ranked as the #37 prospect before 2007. Davis was never ranked in the top 100.

 

I hope you understand I'm just looking to clarify. I'm enjoying the discussion. I like looking at numbers, and trying to build a cohesive argument. I think in doing so, we learn more about our players. Davis didn't come out of nowhere, because we've known about his power potential for a while. Now he just needs to refine his game a bit. But to have 82 extra base hits in just a little over one year's worth of at bats, that's really pretty spectacular from a prospect that never hit the top 100. 600 ABs used to be the norm for a 162 game season for some players. That's dropped down a bunch. But Davis gets so many extra base hits, and he's not yet hit his potential.

 

Just think, Sheetskout. If Brauny's thumb feels better, and he is able to regain much of his form, and Davis continues to evolve as an offensive force, what a nice 1-2 punch in the middle of the order.

 

I want to be optimistic about our club's chances next year. But I have to be realistic. Let them show me that they can get a playoff spot, and make some noise, without having to go all in on a Cy Young Award winner for a half season rental. Let's develop our own Cy Young-caliber talent, you know?

 

I bet within a year or so, Khris Davis's game will be far ahead of Lind's. Krush is going to be hitting 30 home runs a season on a consistent basis if he can just stay healthy. And I think he will.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

excellent point. who cares about HR power. we have enough of those guys. bring in someone that can get on base and post a good average. .321 last year? i'll take that anyday of the week.

 

First, I guarantee you he won't hit .321 next year. New league, new pitchers. He might hit .300, but I'm thinking .275-.280 is more likely. Secondly, no, we really don't have enough of "those guys". If Reynolds is gone, we have two guys that hit 20 home runs last year, Davis and Gomez. Ramirez might hit 20 again if he can stay healthy. Big if. He's hit 29 the last two years. Gomez should hit 20, or close to it again. Braun, who knows what to expect. I think 30 is more likely than a lot of people believe right now. I think his thumb will be better. But besides Gomez and Davis, who was losing playing time at the end of the year, and Braun if he bounces back, we really don't have any other power hitters. Lucroy will hit 15. Gennett 10. Lind may hit 20. But this is not the 2011 team anymore. We hit 150 home runs last year. Good, not great.

 

We shall see.

He probably won't hit .321 but aiming for .290 isn't unrealistic. Not to mention that Miller Park is a little friendlier than the Rogers Centre. I meant it in the sense of plate approach. We have a lot of free swingers on the team. Lind isn't really a free swinger. I think Lind could 15 to 20 while hitting .290. That's a massive upgrade over the junk we had last year.

[pogokat]

Maybe this paves the way of getting Corey Hart back to platoon with Lind. Not sure if I am serious or not.

 

I kind of hope you're not. Actually, I really hope you're not.

 

I sorta think Hart on a minor league deal with a spring invite would be awesome. He could be this years overbay.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Maybe this paves the way of getting Corey Hart back to platoon with Lind. Not sure if I am serious or not.

 

I kind of hope you're not. Actually, I really hope you're not.

 

I sorta think Hart on a minor league deal with a spring invite would be awesome. He could be this years overbay.

 

 

If it were a cheap minor league deal, I wouldn't vomit. I have a high aversion to bringing back former Brewers in their 30's and who currently suck.

 

I sometimes wonder if we're the only fanbase who have a lot of fans that have a high occurrence of wanting to bring back former players who are over the hill and past their usefulness. (I'm 100% sure we're not.....it's just one of those "it kind of feels like it" things)

[3and2Fastball]

I sometimes wonder if we're the only fanbase who have a lot of fans that have a high occurrence of wanting to bring back former players who are over the hill and past their usefulness. (I'm 100% sure we're not.....it's just one of those "it kind of feels like it" things)

 

It does seem like it, doesn't it? My father-in-law is distraught over this trade because it means his favorite player, Lyle Overbay, likely won't be back. I tried to explain to him that Lyle will be 38, hit something like .232 last year etc etc, but he didn't want to hear about it.

 

Lind, btw, does have experience playing OF.

[StearnsFTW]

Good move. Not great.

 

Lind Is Going To Be A Really Bad Defensive player. It also sucks that we're going to have to waste a roster spot on a platoon 1bman again.

 

I'm still happy to see Overbay walking out the door.

[SoupTown]

I think we can call it half a platoon or even a 1/4 platoon - if you consider Lucroy and Rogers as the backup first baseman and Rogers as the backup third baseman (mind you, I think I like this Jimenez guy better given he is claimed to be really good at D at 3rd). One can see for sure a battle in spring training between Rogers and Jimenez.

[StearnsFTW]

I think we can call it half a platoon or even a 1/4 platoon - if you consider Lucroy and Rogers as the backup first baseman and Rogers as the backup third baseman (mind you, I think I like this Jimenez guy better given he is claimed to be really good at D at 3rd). One can see for sure a battle in spring training between Rogers and Jimenez.

 

Well, if it's Lucroy (and I'm fine with that in theory), you probably need a 3rd catcher, which is a huge waste of a roster spot. I imagine they could get away wihout it, but I'm not sure they would. I can honestly say that I don't know if Rogers can play 3rd. This is the first I've heard that he can. If it's possible to keep Jimenez as the platoon mate/utility guy, then I like the move more. Seems unlikely to me, but I'm not saying your wrong.

 

Platooning a spot that is as easy to fill as 1B hurts in the NL.

[bill hAll Star]

You don't need a 3rd catcher if you let Luc play 1B once a week (or less, even). Especially in the NL Central where there are almost no lefties.

[3and2Fastball]

I could see the Brewers signing someone like an Asdrubal Cabrera or Jed Lowrie, a guy who can platoon with Gennett but also play multiple infield positions

[trwi7]

I think Cabrera would look for and find a starting job. Off the top of my head the Nationals and Blue Jays would take him as their starting 2nd baseman.

[3and2Fastball]

I think Cabrera would look for and find a starting job. Off the top of my head the Nationals and Blue Jays would take him as their starting 2nd baseman.

 

True, maybe Ramon Santiago then....

 

the point I'm trying to make is that needing to platoon Lind isn't as big of a deal if the guy who platoons with Scooter can also play 3B/SS even OF (maybe Elian Herrera is already that guy)

[StearnsFTW]

You don't need a 3rd catcher if you let Luc play 1B once a week (or less, even). Especially in the NL Central where there are almost no lefties.

 

That's fine if you believe that. There's no way the Brewers only face 27 lefties next year though (1/6 games). Just to be clear, I don't think it's a huge deal, but it matters some. It bothers me that the Brewers continue to waste a bench spot on a 1B platoon.

[3and2Fastball]

Luis Jimenez has played 1B in the minors, and has hit well at every level in the minors and is said to be a terrific defensive 3B. I could see him potentially being a platoon partner with Lind.

 

In 117 games in AAA this season he slashed .286/.321/.505 with 21 home runs and had 12 stolen bases for good measure.

[bill hAll Star]

You don't need a 3rd catcher if you let Luc play 1B once a week (or less, even). Especially in the NL Central where there are almost no lefties.

 

That's fine if you believe that. There's no way the Brewers only face 27 lefties next year though (1/6 games). Just to be clear, I don't think it's a huge deal, but it matters some. It bothers me that the Brewers continue to waste a bench spot on a 1B platoon.

 

You can have players that play multiple positions. Maybe Luc plays 25 games at 1B and Jimenez plays 15 while also backing up 3B. That's in the ideal case with injury not happening. Thankfully, corner RH hitters are the most abundant entity in baseball for replacement-level platoon guys. Anyone's AAAA 1B can come up for 2-3 weeks and hit lefties well enough to not kill you.

 

(Cue somebody bringing up the 2013 Brewers).

[TooLiveBrew]

We added a guy (under contract for two more seasons) with a career line v. RHP of .293/.349/.510/.860 for one season of Marco Estrada. This might not be a franchise-altering deal, but it's still one helluva trade.

 

I understand some folks not being thrilled about Lind, but he's been very good at the plate the last two seasons. What I usually look at when considering how a player should be expected to produce is career numbers, & the most recent two or three seasons. Even if you include his bad 2012 campaign, Lind's composite slash line the past three seasons is .287/.351/.467/.818.

 

It's very reasonable to expect .800-.850 OPS performance -- with an upside around .900 -- as long as he's properly utilized. And again, this comes in return for one season of Estrada. Hard to view this as anything other than a very good trade.

[igor67]

I really don't think it is OK to say that 1st base is an easy position to fill. We've listed the options the last few offseasons, and they are all mediocre and over priced seemingly, or just plain bad and cheap.

 

I like that we currently have 2 guys in Rogers and Jimenez that could fill that platoon/ back-up role. It's too bad Clark is a lefty suddenly because he'd certainly be interesting. I can't help but notice that Jimenez has topped out in the .820 OPS range while playing in Salt Lake for multiple years. If he truly is an excellent defender at both corners and can post a .750 OPS with a solid OBP, that's pretty good. I just have some doubts given the park and league context.

[Invader3K]

 

It does seem like it, doesn't it? My father-in-law is distraught over this trade because it means his favorite player, Lyle Overbay, likely won't be back. I tried to explain to him that Lyle will be 38, hit something like .232 last year etc etc, but he didn't want to hear about it.

 

That's funny. Last I heard, Overbay is probably going to retire.

 

No one is pretending Lind is going to be the second coming of Prince Fielder at first base for the Brewers. But he's going to be a big upgrade over the junk they've been trotting out at the position the past couple seasons. It's not like his salary is ridiculous or anything, either.

 

The Brewers really need to address their lack of top prospects at the corner positions, though.

[logan82]

I like this deal but I am not sure why people want to find more playing time for Maldonado by playing Lucroy at 1B.