Adam Lind acquired from Toronto for Marco Estrada

[Thurston Fluff]

That assumes of course we would have had Fielder to extend. Had we always had that money we probably would have spent it on a FA that would have allowed us to be just good enough not to be able to draft that high. Naturally that lower level draft pick would have been given away to sign said FA so we not only wouldn't have been drafting that high we probably wouldn't have had any pick in the first round. The loss of some of those picks would have meant a weaker farm system that would have made trading for Greinke or Sabathia more problematic. Money no doubt helps but I think it has limits. The longer you spend big the less return you get for it.

I agree to some extent. You can't just spend money to spend it. But if you use the additional payroll to supplement your roster with solid role players (Mike Morse, Tim Hudson, Marco Scutaro, Angel Pagan and Jeremy Affeldt) on shorter deals for lower AAV, then you can lessen the loss of return on your investments.

 

I agree with that. Problem is nobody who has money seems to do that. How difficult would it have been to not sign Prince or Sabathia to a deal if we had the money to do so?

[BrewBalls]

 

I agree with that. Problem is nobody who has money seems to do that. How difficult would it have been to not sign Prince or Sabathia to a deal if we had the money to do so?

 

Based on other teams with similar payrolls to the Giants, it is still possible to have extended either Prince or CC AND still have an additional $20-30M available to supplement the roster in any given offseason. Paying one player $25M is a lot more palatable if you are working with a $150M versus $100M payroll.

[Thurston Fluff]

 

I agree with that. Problem is nobody who has money seems to do that. How difficult would it have been to not sign Prince or Sabathia to a deal if we had the money to do so?

 

Based on other teams with similar payrolls to the Giants, it is still possible to have extended either Prince or CC AND still have an additional $20-30M available to supplement the roster in any given offseason. Paying one player $25M is a lot more palatable if you are working with a $150M versus $100M payroll.

 

Neither of them would have helped us this year and we would be stuck with them at that price for an additional few years. None of which are likely to be worth $25 million. The point is paying players like that starts a cycle of having to pay players like that or go through a total rebuild. If teams would take that same amount of money and supplement their roster with good players who don't get long contracts or have draft pick compensation attached to them a team would be better off IMHO. Yet no team with ample money seems to spend that way. To tempting to go hog wild I suppose.

[3and2Fastball]

If it is true that all it would have taken is $3 million to $5 million more per year to sign Jose Abreu then I think either: the Brewers front office and ownership are complete and total idiots, or, they are not sincere about wanting to contend for a title and are more concerned with turning a profit

[brewtank34]

If it is true that all it would have taken is $3 million to $5 million more per year to sign Jose Abreu then I think either: the Brewers front office and ownership are complete and total idiots, or, they are not sincere about wanting to contend for a title and are more concerned with turning a profit

 

They made him a $60 million dollar offer and he declined. What more do you want. No one knew that he would have the season/impact that he did this year...or else every team in the MLB would have been offering him $100 million. Give the Brewers front office credit enough to offer him a contract worth that much in the first place, as well as a contract in the park of other teams offers.

[BrewBalls]

If it is true that all it would have taken is $3 million to $5 million more per year to sign Jose Abreu then I think either: the Brewers front office and ownership are complete and total idiots, or, they are not sincere about wanting to contend for a title and are more concerned with turning a profit

Its also impossible to predict Abreu was going to come into the league and produce at such a high level right away. These Cuban defectors are so hard to gauge since the only time scouts get to see them is for a few games during the WBC. Its difficult for smaller market teams to invest $60M+ into a player based on a few workouts and games. In hindsight, it does seem foolish not to have spent an additional $3-5M to acquire him but again maybe DM and MA didn't think he was worth the additional money based on the scouting report they had on him.

[torts]

Aaaaaand Estrada is potentially starting game , of the ALCS

[torts]

Game 1

[paul253]

I had no problem trading Estrada. He was no better than a fifth starter/long reliever for us. I was so upset that he was given the fifth starter spot last season after winning the phantom "competition" with Tyler Thornburg. I fault DM for a lot of things but trading Estrada isn't one of them.

[Invader3K]

I had no problem trading Estrada. He was no better than a fifth starter/long reliever for us. I was so upset that he was given the fifth starter spot last season after winning the phantom "competition" with Tyler Thornburg. I fault DM for a lot of things but trading Estrada isn't one of them.

 

Agreed. Plus there's the fact that we needed a real first baseman, and Adam Lind wasn't exactly a slouch this year.

[Boomer5]

The trade was fine though it is a little disturbing both Marco and Yo performed so much better with their new teams.

[pacopete4]

The trade was fine though it is a little disturbing both Marco and Yo performed so much better with their new teams.

 

 

I am very excited to see what a new pitching coaching and staff does with what we have here in Milwaukee. I think we see that all too often that pitchers have greater success away from Milwaukee. Both Yo and Estrada went to American League teams and out performed their career numbers. That, to me, says a lot about our coaches.

[Roderick]

The trade was fine though it is a little disturbing both Marco and Yo performed so much better with their new teams.

 

 

I am very excited to see what a new pitching coaching and staff does with what we have here in Milwaukee. I think we see that all too often that pitchers have greater success away from Milwaukee. Both Yo and Estrada went to American League teams and out performed their career numbers. That, to me, says a lot about our coaches.

 

I don't know if this is the case, I don't follow the AL, but I assume Gallardo also came into the season in the best shape of his life being a contract year.

[brewmann04]

I wonder if they will go with a younger pitching coach with all the young arms?

[MNBrew]

The trade was fine though it is a little disturbing both Marco and Yo performed so much better with their new teams.

 

 

I am very excited to see what a new pitching coaching and staff does with what we have here in Milwaukee. I think we see that all too often that pitchers have greater success away from Milwaukee. Both Yo and Estrada went to American League teams and out performed their career numbers. That, to me, says a lot about our coaches.

I continue to contend that Rick Kranitz really never seemed to help our pitchers, especially our SPs, get better. It really seems there are more guys who've done better after leaving MIL (I'd readily add Villanueva to the list) than while they were here. The bullpen has several positive examples, but that's more Tunnell's domain.

[MrTPlush]

If it is true that all it would have taken is $3 million to $5 million more per year to sign Jose Abreu then I think either: the Brewers front office and ownership are complete and total idiots, or, they are not sincere about wanting to contend for a title and are more concerned with turning a profit

 

Every report I saw said the Brewers were only being used and Abreu wasn't ever going to come here. All we were doing was bidding up the White Sox. Maybe that would have changed if we were offering miles above the White Sox, but who would have honestly thought that was a good idea back then? No one.

[homer]

If it is true that all it would have taken is $3 million to $5 million more per year to sign Jose Abreu then I think either: the Brewers front office and ownership are complete and total idiots, or, they are not sincere about wanting to contend for a title and are more concerned with turning a profit

 

Every report I saw said the Brewers were only being used and Abreu wasn't ever going to come here. All we were doing was bidding up the White Sox. Maybe that would have changed if we were offering miles above the White Sox, but who would have honestly thought that was a good idea back then? No one.

 

 

Not to mention, projecting a Cuban player's success is not a sure thing. Be kinda risky to outbid the Sox only to have the guy flop.

[3and2Fastball]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

[DocLuna7]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

 

I know it's always tough to trade starting pitching but imho, Marco Estrada was not going to be the difference maker for the 2015 Brewers experiencing success. Trading him coupled with having a lousy season has opened up some rotation slots for young guys that might actually have a future here and it's not like Lind played badly for us. Let's see what we get back in return for Lind before making a call on who won this deal.

[danzig6767]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

I'm just happy for Estrada. I have a soft spot for guys like him who weren't born with a special gift in baseball, but slug through many years in the minors and eventually become a solid to good major league player.

 

I became a Toronto fan even before the playoffs started and was happy to see Estrada come through with a huge start for them to keep the Blue Jays alive. He learned how to through an elite changeup and that's allowed him be good enough to start game three of the playoffs with an 88mph fastball.

[torts]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

I'm just happy for Estrada. I have a soft spot for guys like him who weren't born with a special gift in baseball, but slug through many years in the minors and eventually become a solid to good major league player.

 

I became a Toronto fan even before the playoffs started and was happy to see Estrada come through with a huge start for them to keep the Blue Jays alive. He learned how to through an elite changeup and that's allowed him be good enough to start game three of the playoffs with an 88mph fastball.

 

Me too. Its just amazing that a guy who pitched like it was batting practice is now 1 step away from the world series

[dlk9s]

Look, it was a good trade for both teams. Nobody has to "win" a trade. Both players have done nicely with their new teams, and that's great. Besides, it's not like keeping Estrada would've mattered.

[3and2Fastball]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

 

I know it's always tough to trade starting pitching but imho, Marco Estrada was not going to be the difference maker for the 2015 Brewers experiencing success. Trading him coupled with having a lousy season has opened up some rotation slots for young guys that might actually have a future here and it's not like Lind played badly for us. Let's see what we get back in return for Lind before making a call on who won this deal.

 

That is one (good) way to look at it, but reality is that the 2015 Brewers weren't going to experience success. Estrada should have been traded for a prospect not Lind. But then again such decisions led to a regime change in the Brewers front office, so if I look at it that way I'm thrilled with the trade!

[JohnBriggs12]

Hindsight is 20/20 but the Blue Jays got the best of this trade so far. Estrada is a free agent after this season though and it remains to be seen what the Brewers get out of Lind next year in terms of production or in a trade.

 

I know it's always tough to trade starting pitching but imho, Marco Estrada was not going to be the difference maker for the 2015 Brewers experiencing success. Trading him coupled with having a lousy season has opened up some rotation slots for young guys that might actually have a future here and it's not like Lind played badly for us. Let's see what we get back in return for Lind before making a call on who won this deal.

 

That is one (good) way to look at it, but reality is that the 2015 Brewers weren't going to experience success. Estrada should have been traded for a prospect not Lind. But then again such decisions led to a regime change in the Brewers front office, so if I look at it that way I'm thrilled with the trade!

 

Eventually, they'll likely get a better prospect out of dealing Lind than what they would have received for one year of Estrada last winter. Estrada would've started 2015 in the Brewer bullpen, and likely stayed there despite the woeful performances of Lohse and Garza, until Peralta went on the DL. Then he might have taken innings that went to Jungmann. He'd have had June and July to boost his value for a deal at the deadline. That's not a ton to go on. Brewers also might have wasted more money on a guy like LaRoche in FA. I think it worked out well. Will be interesting to see what Estrada gets in FA.

[tmwiese55]

I view it as a win-win from both sides. Believe it or not, that can happen. I think the Greinke/KC trade was as well. I think the Houston trade will work out that way too.

 

It was frustrating to see how much better Estrada and Gallardo did with new coaching though.