Joe Maddon opts out of contract

[dlk9s]

The point isn't to compare Counsell and Maddon. The point is that it doesn't matter who manages a team with that much talent.

 

This.

 

And obviously every GM would choose Maddon over CC. Maddon has a bunch of experience and has had success and CC is a managerial noob.

[QuevedosTongue]

I give Maddon credit for changing the attitude of the team against teams that were considered better and taking a team full of young players who have little to no playoff experience to this point. They clearly have the most talent on offense in the NL. I'll still be surprised if they win the WS this year.

 

I think they would beat the Dodgers and I see a Mets series as pretty even. I think a Mets series would be a lot of fun, as so many of the players are young and new to the playoff experience.

 

All that said, Toronto looks like a clear favorite to win it all.

[502 to Right]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

 

You guys are either grossly overrating Counsell or underrating Joe Maddon, or both. I'd wager there's not a single GM in baseball who would take CC over Maddon. It's like comparing Aaron Rodgers to Jameis Winston.

 

The point isn't to compare Counsell and Maddon. The point is that it doesn't matter who manages a team with that much talent.

 

I think it does matter. I think the Cubs are as good as they are because of the talent and Maddon. I don't know what their record would have been with CC as the manager all year, but I'm certain it would be worse than what it was with Maddon.

[homer]

Just out of curiosity, how many extra wins would you say Joe Maddon is worth? Also, why do you think CC isn't as good of a manager?

[502 to Right]

Just out of curiosity, how many extra wins would you say Joe Maddon is worth? Also, why do you think CC isn't as good of a manager?

 

 

I don't know and it's pretty much impossible to quantify the value of a manager, as much as we want to quantify everything in baseball. I can only base my observations on anecdotal evidence--much of which suggests Joe Maddon is exceptional. I'm not basing this just on in-game decisions; being a manager also takes into account leadership, team unity, being a psychologist, handling the media, and the like. Joe Maddon is exceptional in those categories.

 

Not that this is that big a deal, but when Bruce Froemming was on MLB Network with a couple of other umpires a few years ago they were asked if there were any managers in MLB that when they came out to argue the umpire knew he had made a mistake (i.e., the manager who doesn't come out and blow smoke and grandstand). They all said Joe Maddon.

 

I've been a fan of the Red Sox since 1999 when I was stationed in Rhode Island in the Marines so over the years I've seen a lot of Rays games managed by Maddon. I've also seen Theo Epstein up close since he was 28 year old general manager. Both have impressed me greatly.

 

If I was an owner of team in 2012 and you told me I could have any GM and any manager in the game I wanted I would have selected Theo and Maddon. Well, now the Cubs have them. To go along with the ability to spend a lot of money. Like I said at the beginning of 2015, this is a very bad thing for the Brewers.

 

To address your other question--I won't say CC is good or bad. It's too early to tell.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't think anyone is saying that Maddon isn't good or that Counsell is great, but the Cubs have a loaded roster. Any halfwit manager should have been able to take them to the playoffs this year.

[502 to Right]

I don't think anyone is saying that Maddon isn't good or that Counsell is great, but the Cubs have a loaded roster. Any halfwit manager should have been able to take them to the playoffs this year.

 

Fair enough. I guess you'd have to be a pretty bad manager to make them 14 games worse.

[torts]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

 

Im pretty sure that hes involved in player acquisitions, i doubt hoyer has full control over who stays and who goes

[502 to Right]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

 

Im pretty sure that hes involved in player acquisitions, i doubt hoyer has full control over who stays and who goes

 

 

Crane Kenney is the President of Business Operations and Theo is the President of Baseball Operations. Theo has direct oversight over everything that Jed Hoyer does. That said, Theo is a very collaborative supervisor so it's not like Jed Hoyer is a rubber stamp.

[3and2Fastball]

Now that he's facing a team with far superior pitching, Joe isn't looking like as much of a genius anymore

 

I fully expect the Cubs to spend a huge amount of $$$ on free agent pitching this winter

[DocLuna7]

I have to say that I really enjoy watching the despondent look on all of the Cubs fans' faces during the ninth inning of the game tonight. I know we didn't make the playoffs and that they did. That was still really, really fun for me in some perverse way.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It was almost too perfect to see the skies open up in the bottom of the 9th and soak a despondent, depressed Wrigley Field. The Mets still need to win one more game - taking care of business tonight would be good, since Lester and Arrieta would be potential game 5-6 starters that could make things interesting if the series has to head back to NY.

[reillymcshane]

Madden took the Cubs much further than anyone anticipated. I figured they were a .500ish team. In the end, Madden can't make his guys hit the ball or pitch better - it's the players job at some point. The Cubs have a young team not without flaws, but they did well with what they had. Good health played a big role in that. They simply ran into another good team that is playing better.

 

All that said, I hate the Cubs and the Cardinals, and will be thrilled to see them out of it.

[CheezWizHed]

The Cubs must now win 8 straight to make the Back to the Future prediction correct (a sweep in the WS).