Joe Maddon opts out of contract

[pacopete4]

I wish we had some big name prospects that were close. Those years with guys like Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Gallardo, etc.. coming through were so exciting and its fun when young guys are the ones doing it. They just seem to bring a kid-like atmosphere to the team.

[502 to Right]

Maddon had the benefit of some pretty stellar pitching staffs in Tampa. Cubs need to do a little more in that area before he can work his "magic" at Wrigley.

 

 

They will.

 

I could see them signing James Shields and Jake Peavy this winter. Or Jon Lester. Or Max Sherzer...

[reillymcshane]

Cubs officially fired Rick Renteria.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/cubs-fire-rick-renteria.html

 

Bad situation for the man.

[The stache]

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYERS YOU GET TO MANAGE!

 

Can't say that enough. If you're a Brewers fan and you're mad about our team, it lies with Doug Melvin. I personally think we are doing quite well as a franchise but some fans refuse to look at the big picture of things.

 

LOL, "the big picture?" Okay, I'll give "the big picture" a shot.

 

Out of nothing, this franchise was created in 1969 as the Seattle Pilots. The very next season, the team moved to Milwaukee, becoming the Milwaukee Brewers, giving the city a Major League franchise for the first time since the Milwaukee Braves moved to Atlanta in 1966. The franchise has completed 46 seasons as a Major League team, compiling a 3,501-3,818 career record. That's a .478 lifetime winning percentage for the team. Put another way, this team's career win-loss record is 317 games below .500. There are now 162 games in a Major League season. We could win every single game in the 2015 season, and we would still be below .500. We would need to win the first 155 games in the 2016 season just to get back to .500.

 

The franchise, in 46 seasons, has finished at or above .500 17 times. We have had 15 winning seasons in 46. We have won our own division a grand total of 3 times in 46 seasons. In those 46 seasons, we have appeared in the playoffs 4 times. 4 times in 46 seasons. The Milwaukee Brewers franchise, again, in 46 seasons, has won 2 playoff series, the 1982 American League Championship Series in 1982, and the National League Division series in 2011. In 46 seasons, the Brewers have complied a post season record of 14-18, for a .438 winning percentage.

 

In 46 seasons, the Milwaukee Brewers have zero championships. Had the Kansas City Royals scored two more runs in game 7 of this year's World Series, Milwaukee would be the city with two or more professional sports franchises with the longest drought since winning a championship. So, currently we have the longest drought as a city at 44 years.

 

But what about our young talent? In the April 11-23 issue of Baseball America, where all 30 Major League Teams had their minor league talent across all levels ranked 1-30, the Brewers ranked 29th. Second to last. The only team below us, the Los Angeles Dodgers, had the highest total salary in baseball at $235 million plus. With a new television deal, they can buy just about whatever they need. And where is that talent now? Well, I haven't done a complete analysis of both teams, going by Jonathan Mayo's top 100 prospect list on MLB.com, the Dodgers currently have four of the top 100 prospects. The Brewers? They do not have a single player in that top 100 list. Tyrone Taylor is currently our highest ranked prospect. And it is safe to say that the #3 prospect the Dodgers have, Joc Pederson, would easily be our #1 prospect in a heartbeat, if we acquired him.

 

So, let's just sum up. Let's get that "big picture" that I have missed.

 

 

The Brewers franchise:

 

The past:

 

46 years in existence. 317 games below .500.

0 Championships. 1 World Series appearance in 46 seasons.

2 playoff series wins in 46 seasons.

 

The future:

Quite possibly, and highly likely, the very worst minor league system in all of baseball right now. Not a single elite prospect anywhere in our system.

 

I'm sorry (sarcasm definitely intended), what are we missing? We have a manager that was furious after the end of the season. We have a team that was at one point 19 games above .500. A team that led their division most all of the year. A team that not only did not finish anywhere near 19 games above .500, we did not win the division. We did not make the playoffs at all. And we barely finished above .500.

 

Mark Attanasio promised that he would "find who wanted to be in Milwaukee." The tough attitude told us that "heads were going to roll!"

 

What happened? The hitting coach, and the first base coach, were fired. Because, obviously it was the first base coach's fault that more batters didn't reach first base on his watch. Now we have a new hitting coach, and a new first base coach. There's no stopping us now!

 

The Cubs, who have gone over a century without a World Series win, likely now have the best minor league talent in all of baseball. I would bank on that.

The Pirates have a minor league system that is in the top 10 in baseball. I would bank on that being so to start the 2015 season.

The Cardinals may not have a top 10 minor league system anymore because they were the #1 minor league system before the 2014 season, and many of their top prospects graduated to the Major Leagues, losing their prospect status.

The Reds are likely not a top 10 system in 2015 because all of their recent young, highly touted prospects, also have made it to the Major Leagues.

 

There is a very real possibility that the Brewers will be picked to finish dead last in the National League Central by every major publication. They should be. Why? Our very best player, Ryan Braun, is a major question mark heading into this season because of his thumb. We still have no first baseman of the future, even though Prince Fielder left the Brewers before the 2012 season started. We have nobody in our system that's a clear successor to Aramis Ramirez at third base. Should he decide to retire, we don't know who would play third base next season. Hell, we're still looking for a first baseman. We have a second baseman that can't hit left handed pitching, and the man he platooned with in 2014 is now gone. And our shortstop, who looked so promising at the midway point of the 2013 season, has now had a full season of sub par play, where he has been one of the very worst producers in all of baseball. Now, it can be understood, because his 6 month old son tragically passed away. But my point is, we don't know if he will ever be able to bounce back. If he cannot, we do not have anybody at shortstop in our system who is ready to step in, and take his place. In fact, only our catcher Jonathan Lucroy keeps the entire infield from being a question mark.

 

The big picture? The big picture is that the Brewers have been one of the worst franchises in Major League baseball history. We are nearing a half century of baseball, and we have never won a Championship, and it could very accurately be said that there is no team in baseball that is further away from contending for a championship than the Brewers. Even the Astros, who have been terrible, are further along than we are. All that young talent is starting to pay off for them.

 

So, pray tell me, sir. What are we missing? What shining beacon of hope are we overlooking? What is there to tell us that 2015 will be any different than last year?

[TURBO]

Geez 'stache, thanks for depressing me...

 

[3and2Fastball]

I would say that the Brewers are in bigtime trouble and 'stache's post illustrates why, quite well.

 

Having said that I remain ever optimistic.

[pacopete4]

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE PLAYERS YOU GET TO MANAGE!

 

Can't say that enough. If you're a Brewers fan and you're mad about our team, it lies with Doug Melvin. I personally think we are doing quite well as a franchise but some fans refuse to look at the big picture of things.

 

LOL, "the big picture?" Okay, I'll give "the big picture" a shot.

 

Out of nothing, this franchise was created in 1969 as the Seattle Pilots. The very next season, the team moved to Milwaukee, becoming the Milwaukee Brewers, giving the city a Major League franchise for the first time since the Milwaukee Braves moved to Atlanta in 1966. The franchise has completed 46 seasons as a Major League team, compiling a 3,501-3,818 career record. That's a .478 lifetime winning percentage for the team. Put another way, this team's career win-loss record is 317 games below .500. There are now 162 games in a Major League season. We could win every single game in the 2015 season, and we would still be below .500. We would need to win the first 155 games in the 2016 season just to get back to .500.

 

The franchise, in 46 seasons, has finished at or above .500 17 times. We have had 15 winning seasons in 46. We have won our own division a grand total of 3 times in 46 seasons. In those 46 seasons, we have appeared in the playoffs 4 times. 4 times in 46 seasons. The Milwaukee Brewers franchise, again, in 46 seasons, has won 2 playoff series, the 1982 American League Championship Series in 1982, and the National League Division series in 2011. In 46 seasons, the Brewers have complied a post season record of 14-18, for a .438 winning percentage.

 

In 46 seasons, the Milwaukee Brewers have zero championships. Had the Kansas City Royals scored two more runs in game 7 of this year's World Series, Milwaukee would be the city with two or more professional sports franchises with the longest drought since winning a championship. So, currently we have the longest drought as a city at 44 years.

 

But what about our young talent? In the April 11-23 issue of Baseball America, where all 30 Major League Teams had their minor league talent across all levels ranked 1-30, the Brewers ranked 29th. Second to last. The only team below us, the Los Angeles Dodgers, had the highest total salary in baseball at $235 million plus. With a new television deal, they can buy just about whatever they need. And where is that talent now? Well, I haven't done a complete analysis of both teams, going by Jonathan Mayo's top 100 prospect list on MLB.com, the Dodgers currently have four of the top 100 prospects. The Brewers? They do not have a single player in that top 100 list. Tyrone Taylor is currently our highest ranked prospect. And it is safe to say that the #3 prospect the Dodgers have, Joc Pederson, would easily be our #1 prospect in a heartbeat, if we acquired him.

 

So, let's just sum up. Let's get that "big picture" that I have missed.

 

 

The Brewers franchise:

 

The past:

 

46 years in existence. 317 games below .500.

0 Championships. 1 World Series appearance in 46 seasons.

2 playoff series wins in 46 seasons.

 

The future:

Quite possibly, and highly likely, the very worst minor league system in all of baseball right now. Not a single elite prospect anywhere in our system.

 

I'm sorry (sarcasm definitely intended), what are we missing? We have a manager that was furious after the end of the season. We have a team that was at one point 19 games above .500. A team that led their division most all of the year. A team that not only did not finish anywhere near 19 games above .500, we did not win the division. We did not make the playoffs at all. And we barely finished above .500.

 

Mark Attanasio promised that he would "find who wanted to be in Milwaukee." The tough attitude told us that "heads were going to roll!"

 

What happened? The hitting coach, and the first base coach, were fired. Because, obviously it was the first base coach's fault that more batters didn't reach first base on his watch. Now we have a new hitting coach, and a new first base coach. There's no stopping us now!

 

The Cubs, who have gone over a century without a World Series win, likely now have the best minor league talent in all of baseball. I would bank on that.

The Pirates have a minor league system that is in the top 10 in baseball. I would bank on that being so to start the 2015 season.

The Cardinals may not have a top 10 minor league system anymore because they were the #1 minor league system before the 2014 season, and many of their top prospects graduated to the Major Leagues, losing their prospect status.

The Reds are likely not a top 10 system in 2015 because all of their recent young, highly touted prospects, also have made it to the Major Leagues.

 

There is a very real possibility that the Brewers will be picked to finish dead last in the National League Central by every major publication. They should be. Why? Our very best player, Ryan Braun, is a major question mark heading into this season because of his thumb. We still have no first baseman of the future, even though Prince Fielder left the Brewers before the 2012 season started. We have nobody in our system that's a clear successor to Aramis Ramirez at third base. Should he decide to retire, we don't know who would play third base next season. Hell, we're still looking for a first baseman. We have a second baseman that can't hit left handed pitching, and the man he platooned with in 2014 is now gone. And our shortstop, who looked so promising at the midway point of the 2013 season, has now had a full season of sub par play, where he has been one of the very worst producers in all of baseball. Now, it can be understood, because his 6 month old son tragically passed away. But my point is, we don't know if he will ever be able to bounce back. If he cannot, we do not have anybody at shortstop in our system who is ready to step in, and take his place. In fact, only our catcher Jonathan Lucroy keeps the entire infield from being a question mark.

 

The big picture? The big picture is that the Brewers have been one of the worst franchises in Major League baseball history. We are nearing a half century of baseball, and we have never won a Championship, and it could very accurately be said that there is no team in baseball that is further away from contending for a championship than the Brewers. Even the Astros, who have been terrible, are further along than we are. All that young talent is starting to pay off for them.

 

So, pray tell me, sir. What are we missing? What shining beacon of hope are we overlooking? What is there to tell us that 2015 will be any different than last year?

 

I'm sorry Stache but this is just BS to try to tell me the big picture is looking back at our not so great history of 40+ years. That's not looking big picture, even if you believe you are. Doug Melvin took over in 2003 and since then they are 966-987. While that is a tick under the .500 mark, the first two seasons we did not have Mark A. actually trying to field a quality team. Since Mark A has taken over they are 831-799(83.1 wins - 79.9 losses), which I'll point out to being over the .500 mark. While this is not outstanding or amazing by any means, if your LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE, and include all your previous post of how bad of a franchise we truly were, this is awesome that we are accomplishing what we are, being in one of the smaller markets. You might want to be a Debbie downer and piss all over what Mark A and Melvin have accomplished, but I won't sir, I won't. They have made the playoff twice, were within a couple games of a world series, and have built a very capable roster of competing. The minor league rankings mean nothing to me. The Brewers have had guys come through their minors, not being noticed or recognized at all and have been able to contribute to a major league roster. If this team doesn't poop itself the last two months of the season, the doom and gloom on these boards goes away. Just look at the Giants roster. It truly is not too far off from what we have here in Milwaukee. Yes, they need a couple of key pieces but I will give Melvin and Mark A the opportunity to find those pieces and put together a winner.

 

Just sick of the "oh, we are such a bad franchise" crap. LOOK AT THE OVERALL PICTURE OF THE MEN WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO RIGHT THIS SHIP. They have done a pretty dang good job and I guarantee they are working around the clock to fill in those missing pieces. It is a good time to be a Brewers fan. But hey, just keep popping in that 1982 re-run of blowing it against the Cardinals if you want to sleep better at night.

[LouisEly]

Cubs officially fired Rick Renteria.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/cubs-fire-rick-renteria.html

 

Bad situation for the man.

I wonder if Bosio is going to stick around there. If not, would be nice to have him here. He's done some nice work turning around some pitchers there. Arrietta never did anything in Baltimore, but he's turned him around very nicely. Add to that what he did with Jason Hammel, Kyle Hendricks has looked great so far, developing Rondon and Strop... I think he is one of the better pitching coaches in the game.

[torts]

So how long until collusion charges are filed against epstein, the cubs and maddon by tampa? They better investigate, just seems fishy

[Bazinga]

So how long until collusion charges are filed against epstein, the cubs and maddon by tampa? They better investigate, just seems fishy

 

Imo, there won't be tampering charges. Cubs asked and got permission from MLB AFTER Maddon opted out. In the case there is tampering charges, T.B. isn't getting anything significant (look at what the WS got for Guillen). This is pretty much sour grapes by T.B. Again, there won't be any tampering charges.

[torts]

just wondering, but was maddon in an option year of his contract? Cubs had a manager still when he opted out of his TB contract, so its not like there was a vacancy there he wanted to go after at that time. did someone say something to him before he opted out of the TB deal that he could have the Cubs job?

[monty57]

just wondering, but was maddon in an option year of his contract? Cubs had a manager still when he opted out of his TB contract, so its not like there was a vacancy there he wanted to go after at that time. did someone say something to him before he opted out of the TB deal that he could have the Cubs job?

 

He's a pretty big name, so I'm sure he and his agent figured he'd find a job. Managers get fired all the time while they're still under contract, so it wouldn't take illegal acts for the Maddon team to see that he would be sought after by several teams, including the Cubs.

[502 to Right]

just wondering, but was maddon in an option year of his contract? Cubs had a manager still when he opted out of his TB contract, so its not like there was a vacancy there he wanted to go after at that time. did someone say something to him before he opted out of the TB deal that he could have the Cubs job?

 

He's a pretty big name, so I'm sure he and his agent figured he'd find a job. Managers get fired all the time while they're still under contract, so it wouldn't take illegal acts for the Maddon team to see that he would be sought after by several teams, including the Cubs.

 

 

Joe Maddon is one the most respected managers in baseball. He knew he would have no problems finding a better gig. He is also an articulate and recognizable guy and he knew he could take a year off from managing and take a high paying job with ESPN for Fox for a year if he needed something to open up.

[HiAndTight]

If they are going to rebuild than we should be selling Braun, Lucroy, Gomez etc.. now so we can obtain multiple young blue chip pieces that we can develop into the future. The problem is, Mark A is not going to go this route. He thinks he can win now and win every year. They will continue to pay people in their mid 30's too much money and not get enough in return.

 

 

What do you think we'd get for Ryan Braun right now?

 

I assume we'd likely have to pay a significant amount of his future salary in order to move him at this point.

[monty57]

What do you think we'd get for Ryan Braun right now?

 

Not much. If we were to go that route, we would be best off letting him play a season (or at least half a season) to see how his thumb reacts to the surgery. If the surgery didn't work, and he continues to have the thumb problems, his contract could become one of the worst in baseball. If it does work out, and he gains his previous form, we could get a lot in trade over the next few years while he's still somewhat young.

 

Of course, that's the catch. If he's healthy and productive, Attanasio will never allow him to be traded, and if he's not healthy no one will trade for him.

[JohnBriggs12]

What do you think we'd get for Ryan Braun right now?

 

Not much. If we were to go that route, we would be best off letting him play a season (or at least half a season) to see how his thumb reacts to the surgery. If the surgery didn't work, and he continues to have the thumb problems, his contract could become one of the worst in baseball. If it does work out, and he gains his previous form, we could get a lot in trade over the next few years while he's still somewhat young.

 

Of course, that's the catch. If he's healthy and productive, Attanasio will never allow him to be traded, and if he's not healthy no one will trade for him.

 

Bruan had a "procedure". I wouldn't call it surgery. He was swinging a bat just a few days later. It's quite possible he'll need this procedure every few months. They have no idea how long it will continue to provide relief before it wears off.

[dlk9s]

So is your argument is that a baseball team could pick anyone out of the stands, and it would make no difference over the course of a 162-game season? Surely the guy making a big paycheck to fill out the lineup cards has something to do with the success or failure of a team. The players are the most important part of the equation, but the manager does matter.

The manager matters very, very little.

 

From what I can tell, where a manager matters the most is in the clubhouse. He should meddle as little as possible on the field. If you have good players, let them play. If you have bad players, you're not going to all of a sudden turn them into a winning team. People give guys like Joe Torre and Terry Francona tons of credit, but I think the Brewers could've won just fine with the players those teams had during their championship runs. Ned Yost is getting all sorts of praise, yet he makes terrible decisions time and time again. He's just lucky that his rigid bullpen management (he's my 6th inning guy, he's my 7th inning guy, he's my 8th inning guy, he's my closer) worked because his relievers were unconscious this year. If they were even just "decent," the Royals wouldn't have made the playoffs.

[jerichoholicninja]

Bill Veeck had the fans in the stands manage by voting what the manager should do for one game. They won handily for whatever it matters.

[502 to Right]

Maddon had the benefit of some pretty stellar pitching staffs in Tampa. Cubs need to do a little more in that area before he can work his "magic" at Wrigley.

 

 

They will.

 

I could see them signing James Shields and Jake Peavy this winter. Or Jon Lester. Or Max Sherzer...

 

 

Jon Lester it is. And add Jason Hammel back to the fold. Maddon will have talent to work with.

 

I don't like this at all. The Cubs are like the United States on December 7, 1941. A sleeping giant about to awaken.

[502 to Right]

Maddon had the benefit of some pretty stellar pitching staffs in Tampa. Cubs need to do a little more in that area before he can work his "magic" at Wrigley.

 

 

They will.

 

I could see them signing James Shields and Jake Peavy this winter. Or Jon Lester. Or Max Sherzer...

 

 

Jon Lester it is. And add Jason Hammel back to the fold. Maddon will have talent to work with.

 

I don't like this at all. The Cubs are like the United States on December 7, 1941. A sleeping giant about to awaken.

 

This 502 guy is right. The sleeping giant has awakened. Maybe a year or two before even I thought they would.

 

And as dripping with talent as they are, adding Joe Maddon may have been the best move yet. I wish the Brewers had him.

[dlk9s]

Not that I think Maddon is a bad manager or anything (he's good), but CC would do just fine if he had all those young stud hitters plus a starting pitcher who went from bum to Sandy Koufax almost overnight.

 

It's Theo that should be lavished with accolades. I knew it was a bad sign for opposing fans when he traded for Rizzo. Harbinger of things to come.

[torts]

Theo has to be the best gm in history considering what he did in boston and is doing in chicago

[homer]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

[502 to Right]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

 

You guys are either grossly overrating Counsell or underrating Joe Maddon, or both. I'd wager there's not a single GM in baseball who would take CC over Maddon. It's like comparing Aaron Rodgers to Jameis Winston.

[jerichoholicninja]

He's team president in Chicago. Not sure how that works in terms of player acquisition but Jed Hoyer is the GM.

 

And yes, if Craig Counsell had the same squad I imagine the results would be similar.

 

You guys are either grossly overrating Counsell or underrating Joe Maddon, or both. I'd wager there's not a single GM in baseball who would take CC over Maddon. It's like comparing Aaron Rodgers to Jameis Winston.

 

The point isn't to compare Counsell and Maddon. The point is that it doesn't matter who manages a team with that much talent.