Brewers name Darnell Coles hitting coach

[markedman5]

Tom ‏@Haudricourt 8m8 minutes ago

#Brewers have named Darnell Coles hitting coach. Did previous good work in organization.

[Invader3K]

Sounds like he is well liked and well regarded among players. Former Mariners outfielder.

 

Adam McCalvy saying he'll likely be an MLB manager someday.

[yoyomayoma]

Like the hire. Have heard Tigers players talk about how much they liked working with him.

[torts]

welcome back, Coles, hope no one offers you a manager spot before the ink dries

 

could he supplant RRR next season if things go south early?

[JohnBriggs12]

Managerial record is not so hot, though those Huntsville teams in 2012 and 2013 were very short on talent to be sure. That he was slated to manage Nashville says organization likes his work. He says the right things. Hope he can get it across to Brewer hitters.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

i really hope this new coach preaches a more patient and conservative approach at the plate. i'm so done with almost every brewer hitter overswinging at every fastball high. no you are not mark mcguire on steroids. you're not hitting that ball to the upper deck of the sky dome. just put the darn thing in play like the cardinals do. i hate them but they do things the right way. for once i'd like the brewers to be kings of the rbi bloop singles.

[Mass Haas]

AUDIO from WSSP today

[danzig6767]

i really hope this new coach preaches a more patient and conservative approach at the plate. i'm so done with almost every brewer hitter overswinging at every fastball high. no you are not mark mcguire on steroids. you're not hitting that ball to the upper deck of the sky dome. just put the darn thing in play like the cardinals do. i hate them but they do things the right way. for once i'd like the brewers to be kings of the rbi bloop singles.

Good luck with that. History has shown that hitting coaches usually don't have much impact on how batters approach their at bats. Guys who are patient, take walks, and mostly swing at pitches in the strike zone did that in the minors before ever making the big leagues while impatient free swingers tend to have been that way in the minors before making the majors. Trying to change that approach significantly after a hitter already has a few thousand at bats under their belt is really hard to do.

 

Maybe you can eventually get a guy to raise his walk rate up a little bit like say how Gomez has the last two years, but expecting a hitting coach to turn long time free swingers into patient hitters isn't all that realistic.

[JohnBriggs12]

i really hope this new coach preaches a more patient and conservative approach at the plate. i'm so done with almost every brewer hitter overswinging at every fastball high. no you are not mark mcguire on steroids. you're not hitting that ball to the upper deck of the sky dome. just put the darn thing in play like the cardinals do. i hate them but they do things the right way. for once i'd like the brewers to be kings of the rbi bloop singles.

Good luck with that. History has shown that hitting coaches usually don't have much impact on how batters approach their at bats. Guys who are patient, take walks, and mostly swing at pitches in the strike zone did that in the minors before ever making the big leagues while impatient free swingers tend to have been that way in the minors before making the majors. Trying to change that approach significantly after a hitter already has a few thousand at bats under their belt is really hard to do.

 

Maybe you can eventually get a guy to raise his walk rate up a little bit like say how Gomez has the last two years, but expecting a hitting coach to turn long time free swingers into patient hitters isn't all that realistic.

 

To paraphrase, he said if you only swing at strikes, the pitcher has to throw you strikes and you will get better pitches to hit. So wait for the pitcher to throw one in the zone that you can handle. I believe that's how he defines patience. In theory that will lead to more walks but I think the goal is better hitting all around.

[3and2Fastball]

Random meaningless factoid: Coles' son-in-law is Zach Segovia. Segovia signed a minor league contract with the Brewers prior to the 2011 season and pitched for Nashville that year. He pitched in the Rangers organization last year

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

i really hope this new coach preaches a more patient and conservative approach at the plate. i'm so done with almost every brewer hitter overswinging at every fastball high. no you are not mark mcguire on steroids. you're not hitting that ball to the upper deck of the sky dome. just put the darn thing in play like the cardinals do. i hate them but they do things the right way. for once i'd like the brewers to be kings of the rbi bloop singles.

Good luck with that. History has shown that hitting coaches usually don't have much impact on how batters approach their at bats. Guys who are patient, take walks, and mostly swing at pitches in the strike zone did that in the minors before ever making the big leagues while impatient free swingers tend to have been that way in the minors before making the majors. Trying to change that approach significantly after a hitter already has a few thousand at bats under their belt is really hard to do.

 

Maybe you can eventually get a guy to raise his walk rate up a little bit like say how Gomez has the last two years, but expecting a hitting coach to turn long time free swingers into patient hitters isn't all that realistic.

then time for a major roster overhaul because this group of lazy free swingers isn't going to amount to anything. it starts at the top and melvin is a problem. when has this overaggressive approach ever won anything? there's a reason why this team misses the playoffs most of the time while the lards are in the nlcs all the time.

[Hammer]

Has www.FireDarnellColes.com been claimed yet?

[TGOTJ]

Well, that will fix everything.

[patrickgpe]

interesting that it was a 1 year deal. I'm sure it was just to coincide with RRR's expiring contract, but interesting that he took that little job security.

[jerichoholicninja]

interesting that it was a 1 year deal. I'm sure it was just to coincide with RRR's expiring contract, but interesting that he took that little job security.

 

The contract length for coaches are irrelevant, they are hired and fired on a whim. He probably liked Milwaukee because he knows the organization and they know him and he'll have a shot at managing after Ron is fired. He wouldn't have a chance in Detroit with Ausmus there.

[Mass Haas]

At the end of the 2013 season, Huntsville GM Buck Rogers penned this about his manager that season, Darnell Coles. Strongly suggested read to get a sense of Coles' character, much of which should hopefully garner his batters' respect.

 

***

 

Also, via Mark McCarter of the Huntsville Times, a fun read about Coles' bobblehead affinity. Hopefully Coles negotiated an MLB Brewers version into his 2015 contract.

[danzig6767]

i really hope this new coach preaches a more patient and conservative approach at the plate. i'm so done with almost every brewer hitter overswinging at every fastball high. no you are not mark mcguire on steroids. you're not hitting that ball to the upper deck of the sky dome. just put the darn thing in play like the cardinals do. i hate them but they do things the right way. for once i'd like the brewers to be kings of the rbi bloop singles.

Good luck with that. History has shown that hitting coaches usually don't have much impact on how batters approach their at bats. Guys who are patient, take walks, and mostly swing at pitches in the strike zone did that in the minors before ever making the big leagues while impatient free swingers tend to have been that way in the minors before making the majors. Trying to change that approach significantly after a hitter already has a few thousand at bats under their belt is really hard to do.

 

Maybe you can eventually get a guy to raise his walk rate up a little bit like say how Gomez has the last two years, but expecting a hitting coach to turn long time free swingers into patient hitters isn't all that realistic.

then time for a major roster overhaul because this group of lazy free swingers isn't going to amount to anything. it starts at the top and melvin is a problem. when has this overaggressive approach ever won anything? there's a reason why this team misses the playoffs most of the time while the lards are in the nlcs all the time.

 

I don't believe that Melvin goes out of his way to acquire over-aggressive free swingers, it just kinda worked out that way.

 

Braun for all of his skill as a hitter has never been a high walks guy.

 

Ramirez is a lot like Braun. Long time very skilled hitter overall, but mediocre walk rates for as good as he hits.

 

Gomez has worked out great in the trade for Hardy. He's one of the best overall CF's in the game and his walk rate has actually improved a bit the last two years, to the point he had a .350 OBP which seemed impossible years ago, but he'll always be more free swinger than patient.

 

Scooter came from the farm system where Melvin didn't draft the kid. He hit great batting average wise vs righthanders in back to back years, but he had a poor walk rate in the minors and not surprisingly that's carried over to the majors.

 

Davis also came from the minors in the 7th round where Melvin wasn't making the pick. His walk rate in the minors was actually above average, but for whatever reason he's regressed in that area in the majors. Those walk rates in the minors though at least give me some hope that he can do better in the majors as he plays more.

 

Weeks who will be gone always walked well, he just lost his ability to hit righthanded pitching

 

Segura Melvin traded for and plate discipline certainly has been a weakness and remains a major weakness.

 

Reynolds and Overbay both had very good walk rates last year, in fact the best on the team. Both though carried terrible batting averages and Overbay had no power left for his position.

 

FWIW, i'm not completely absolving Melvin for the free swinging roster he put on the field. I'm just say that i'm certain he'd rather have a roster with more guys who drew walks, but as of late our farm system hasn't produced guys like that. When Weeks and Prince were here in their primes, both drew lots of walks in the top four spots of the lineup. Braun walking at a mediocre rate didn't matter because he was raking with .930 to .990 OPS numbers and high OBP rates largely because of .300 plus batting averages.

 

Guys like Davis, Scooter, and Segura are tough to move given all three are cheap and have some positive traits, but their lack of plate discipline hurt the offense. Braun has to return at least somewhat close to his old self. Firstbase can't remain such a black hole.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

Whether it was by design or by accident, Melvin has crafted the roster to be like this. This team doesn't get on base nearly enough. Seems like runs only come via home runs. It's like teams in basketball that live and die by the 3 pointer. It's great when it's working, but ugly when it stops raining 3's. In 2011 we had a monster offense that lived and died by the long ball. when they were hot they were unstoppable. when the cold streak came they couldn't hit anything. this team sucks at situational hitting. remember the game against the marlins last month? i think it was the 7th or 8th inning that the brewers had the bases loaded with no one out. they ended getting nothing that inning. this team needs guys that can put a ball in play without having to swing for the fences. the brewers have far too many all or nothing guys. scooter and luc are the only ones that come up with clutch base hits. it's all about attitude. melvin or whoever the gm is in the future needs to look for guys that go up to the plate with an unselfish mentality. this team needs guys that WANT to be walked. braun, gomez and ramirez don't look like they're interested in being walked. they look more interested in making the front page of the journal sentinel.

[3and2Fastball]

this team needs guys that WANT to be walked. braun, gomez and ramirez don't look like they're interested in being walked. they look more interested in making the front page of the journal sentinel.

 

They also aren't doing a bunch of other things that winning teams do either, like hitting grounders to the right side of the infield with a man on 3rd and less that 2 outs. They are up there hacking. And it isn't just those 3, it is practically the whole team besides Lucroy & Weeks.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

this team needs guys that WANT to be walked. braun, gomez and ramirez don't look like they're interested in being walked. they look more interested in making the front page of the journal sentinel.

 

They also aren't doing a bunch of other things that winning teams do either, like hitting grounders to the right side of the infield with a man on 3rd and less that 2 outs. They are up there hacking. And it isn't just those 3, it is practically the whole team besides Lucroy & Weeks.

yup. really wish braun would change his approach. he's so greedy. even when he was healthy he was still greedy. can't remember how many times he'd be swinging for the fences with the bases loaded. he was able to get away with it back then because he had power. now it's a soft grounder since his hand is all messed up. ironic that weeks is one of the only guys that looks for the walk first. seems like he's been humble enough to realize that injuries have destroyed him and his only hope for getting on base is the walk. we need more guys like luc and gennett. tired of the all or nothing approach. can't wait until melvin is gone. maybe then things will change. until i expect more of the same. they'll be the poster child for extreme streaky-ness. when the brewers are on they crush everything. when they're cold....well.....just think about last month.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

if it was up to me every hitter on this team is available for a trade except for luc, scooter, and braun. everyone else good bye. would rather have a lineup with 7 guys with no power but high average and high baseball IQ, complimented by 2 mashers, instead of what we have now. it's the safer approach too. in general pitching is going to win the battle. even the best hitter in baseball fails 7 out of 10 times. when you've got a team full of guys hitting below .280 then you're in deep trouble. a scrub like mark reynolds fails 9 out of 10 times. the one time he succeeds it's a useless solo home run. he reminds of mike cameron. my goodness was cameron the king of solo shots in blowouts.

 

schafer .181, reynolds .196, maldonado and overbay in the .230's, davis and segura hit in the .240's. braun .266, parra .268. that's garbage, pure garbage. gomez hit .284 but struck out 141 times. weeks somehow hit .274. so only aramis, scooter, and lucroy were reliable. it's no wonder this team fell apart. all you had to do was avoid getting burned by those 3 and you'd get an easy W. i'm not asking for a lineup full of .300 hitters. but man can we at least have a lineup with most guys hitting above .275 even if it means less power? our magical 2011 year at least they had 4 guys hitting above .280. prince had an obp of .415.

 

when the lards won it in 2011 they had 6 guys that played more than 100 games hit for .280. that's ridiculous. it's no wonder they won they WS that year. freese played in 97 games and hit .297. allen craig played in 75 and hit .315.

 

in 2013 the lards again had 6 guys hit for over .280. 4 of those 6 hit for .300. that's crazy. oh and those aren't small samples either. all 6 of those guys played over 100 games. molina (136 games p) .319, carpenter (157 games p) .318, craig (134 games p) .315, and holliday (141 games p) .300. carlos beltran played in 145 and hit .296. that's almost 5 guys hitting at or over .300.

 

it's a similar story with the red sox in 2013 too. several guys that hit for high averages. melvin is either stubborn or foolish to think his approach works. he's done nothing either to make me think he's interested in change. getting rid of aoki was stupid. guy hit for .288 and .286 his two years here and had an obp above .350 both years. this year he posted basically identical numbers again. in a lineup full of dummies, aoki was a bright spot. i knew getting rid of him was dumb. didn't like the trade from the beginning. nothing against will smith either. i just think the hit to the lineup was far greater than the gain the bullpen would receive.

[MNBrew]

really wish braun would change his approach. he's so greedy. even when he was healthy he was still greedy. can't remember how many times he'd be swinging for the fences with the bases loaded. he was able to get away with it back then because he had power. now it's a soft grounder since his hand is all messed up.

Oh my goodness! He's greedy? He was injured for the better part of 2013 (pre-suspension) and all of 2014! His whole plate approach was affected, and yet he's still blatantly admitted at the end of the 2014 season that he needs to play a whole lot better. Greedy? Unless you know exactly what's inside his head, that's a completely absurd claim!

 

It's funny that you two are holding up Gennett. He did manage a decent number of clutch hits, but that's hardly an indication of a better approach at the plate. He sure didn't walk a lot and he also swung at everything under the sun -- the main difference being that his contact rate was more humane. Heck, Braun had an insignificantly better OBP than Gennett in spite of a lower BA -- why? because he walked at a rate over 50% greater than Scooter's. Not that Braun walked a lot.... And while you're ragging on Ramirez, his BA was barely lower than Scooter's -- though both were in the .280s -- but his OBP was 10 points higher at .330. . . . Sorry, but it seems like some perspective's getting lost here.

 

It seems the crux of the your frustration, like all of ours, is that most of what had been a pretty dang good & productive offense for a few years running went down the toilet atrociously in the 2nd half, which has left all of us with a bad taste in our mouths and a glass-half-empty outlook. The only reason it's somewhat easier to exclude Lucroy & Gennett is because they were the only two who more or less maintained solid BAs (never mind that Ramirez hit .285, too, only .004 lower than Scooter). Let's not forget Lucroy was hardly clutch in the 2nd half -- a 30-point BA/OBP drop after the ASB & a 100-point OPS dropoff w/ only 4 HRs & 25 RBIs. SCOOTER hit .253 w/ a .273 OBP with a 200-point OPS dropoff after the ASB w/ only 2 HRs & 21 RBIs.. . . . The point is, the 2nd half was ugly for everyone and pretty much no one came out of it looking any better at all -- except, oddly enough, Rickie Weeks, who hit .302 after the ASB, although with guys on base he was usually pathetic and hardly ever came through to drive in badly needed runs (including a total 0-fer with the bases loaded this year -- horrid!).

 

Back on topic.... I'm not in love with Coles as a hire, but short of a Paul Molitor, I figured I'd feel underwhelmed by the name we'd hire. But ultimately it's not the name that matters. Coles knows most of our young hitters and is quite a different voice than Johnny Narron's. We had decent-hitting minor league guys under his tutelage and Detroit wasn't a bunch of slack hitters this year, either. So who knows? Coles at least gives some justified reason for hope given his history with guys in our organization..... You can't change a tiger's stripes, so to speak, but it's possible for our hitters to better understand both what they can do at the plate and what they tend to do -- good and bad -- to help improve their awareness of what they need to do, both in general and in specific situations. If Coles proves to be an effective voice, and especially if the Brewers' hitters become better at making adjustments as individual games progress and as the season evolves, then Coles' influence has the potential to greatly improve on the results the team got in 2014 under Narron.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

really wish braun would change his approach. he's so greedy. even when he was healthy he was still greedy. can't remember how many times he'd be swinging for the fences with the bases loaded. he was able to get away with it back then because he had power. now it's a soft grounder since his hand is all messed up.

Oh my goodness! He's greedy? He was injured for the better part of 2013 (pre-suspension) and all of 2014! His whole plate approach was affected, and yet he's still blatantly admitted at the end of the 2014 season that he needs to play a whole lot better. Greedy? Unless you know exactly what's inside his head, that's a completely absurd claim!

 

It's funny that you two are holding up Gennett. He did manage a decent number of clutch hits, but that's hardly an indication of a better approach at the plate. He sure didn't walk a lot and he also swung at everything under the sun -- the main difference being that his contact rate was more humane. Heck, Braun had an insignificantly better OBP than Gennett in spite of a lower BA -- why? because he walked at a rate over 50% greater than Scooter's. Not that Braun walked a lot.... And while you're ragging on Ramirez, his BA was barely lower than Scooter's -- though both were in the .280s -- but his OBP was 10 points higher at .330. . . . Sorry, but it seems like some perspective's getting lost here.

 

It seems the crux of the your frustration, like all of ours, is that most of what had been a pretty dang good & productive offense for a few years running went down the toilet atrociously in the 2nd half, which has left all of us with a bad taste in our mouths and a glass-half-empty outlook. The only reason it's somewhat easier to exclude Lucroy & Gennett is because they were the only two who more or less maintained solid BAs (never mind that Ramirez hit .285, too, only .004 lower than Scooter). Let's not forget Lucroy was hardly clutch in the 2nd half -- a 30-point BA/OBP drop after the ASB & a 100-point OPS dropoff w/ only 4 HRs & 25 RBIs. SCOOTER hit .253 w/ a .273 OBP with a 200-point OPS dropoff after the ASB w/ only 2 HRs & 21 RBIs.. . . . The point is, the 2nd half was ugly for everyone and pretty much no one came out of it looking any better at all -- except, oddly enough, Rickie Weeks, who hit .302 after the ASB, although with guys on base he was usually pathetic and hardly ever came through to drive in badly needed runs (including a total 0-fer with the bases loaded this year -- horrid!).

 

Back on topic.... I'm not in love with Coles as a hire, but short of a Paul Molitor, I figured I'd feel underwhelmed by the name we'd hire. But ultimately it's not the name that matters. Coles knows most of our young hitters and is quite a different voice than Johnny Narron's. We had decent-hitting minor league guys under his tutelage and Detroit wasn't a bunch of slack hitters this year, either. So who knows? Coles at least gives some justified reason for hope given his history with guys in our organization..... You can't change a tiger's stripes, so to speak, but it's possible for our hitters to better understand both what they can do at the plate and what they tend to do -- good and bad -- to help improve their awareness of what they need to do, both in general and in specific situations. If Coles proves to be an effective voice, and especially if the Brewers' hitters become better at making adjustments as individual games progress and as the season evolves, then Coles' influence has the potential to greatly improve on the results the team got in 2014 under Narron.

you're kind of proving my point. braun knew he was hurt, yet he didn't change his approach. he was still swinging away like a maniac. if he's still hurt, wouldn't it make sense adopt a more patient walk first approach? braun's greedy. always has been and most likely always will be. he got away with it before because he was healthy. now that he's hurt his greedy mentality is hurting the team. he's stubborn too. if he didn't want to change his approach then he should have gotten the surgery. if he didn't want the surgery then he should have taken the time to change his game. i'm giving scooter a longer leash because at least he hit for a decent average. it's still a pathetic situation though. even during our super fun heydays the offense still was overly reliant on the long ball. the brewers have tried this approach for years and it hasn't worked. you can't win relying on the long ball. at some point you're going to need guys that consistently hit singles and doubles. again i hate having to saying this, but we need to copy the cardinals approach. they usually have several guys that come through in the clutch. look at matt carpenter. the guy has no power, but he gets on base often. we've seen him drive in runs against our brewers often. jon jay this year went off. idk if it's the players or the coaching, but they have the right mentality there.

[danzig6767]

 

you're kind of proving my point. braun knew he was hurt, yet he didn't change his approach. he was still swinging away like a maniac. if he's still hurt, wouldn't it make sense adopt a more patient walk first approach? braun's greedy. always has been and most likely always will be. he got away with it before because he was healthy. now that he's hurt his greedy mentality is hurting the team. he's stubborn too. if he didn't want to change his approach then he should have gotten the surgery. if he didn't want the surgery then he should have taken the time to change his game. i'm giving scooter a longer leash because at least he hit for a decent average. it's still a pathetic situation though. even during our super fun heydays the offense still was overly reliant on the long ball. the brewers have tried this approach for years and it hasn't worked. you can't win relying on the long ball. at some point you're going to need guys that consistently hit singles and doubles. again i hate having to saying this, but we need to copy the cardinals approach. they usually have several guys that come through in the clutch. look at matt carpenter. the guy has no power, but he gets on base often. we've seen him drive in runs against our brewers often. jon jay this year went off. idk if it's the players or the coaching, but they have the right mentality there.

 

You are overstating the home run or nothing angle as many others have.

 

The Brewers even with the massive hitting struggles late in the year finished with a team batting average of .250, while the Cardinals who you keep bringing up just barely finished higher at .253, both being middle of the pack in the NL. As for supposedly needing to hit more doubles which you also say, the Brewers had the 3rd most doubles in the NL, only 10 fewer than the league leading Rockies. When it comes to hitting with RISP, the Brewers finished 5th best in the NL, not near the bottom and again higher than the Cardinals.

 

What happened last year is mainly that the team simply went into a terrible team wide slump at a really bad time and overall they have to draw more walks. To draw more walks, probably going to need some different players. Clearly need a big upgrade at firstbase. Lastly, the surgery on Braun has to to help him to back to being at least close to his former self.

[lcbj68c]

Danzig is spot on. I always hate when people point to failures in sports being "simply mental". As if, "If he just wanted to walk, he would walk" It doesn't work like that.

 

The approach is fine. Colorado, Toronto, Minnesota were 4-6th in OBP last season. Walking more is overstated. Score more runs than your opponents on more nights. Whether that be by pitching dominance, or home runs, or small ball doesn't matter to me.