So is it now official that Kansas City won the Greinke trade? Also rethinking Ned Yost

[danzig6767]

KC wins the trade hands down. They made the World Series, we did not... There are 2 starters on a World Series team that were part of the trade, plus were able to acquire Shields (Odorizzi being a key part to that trade).

 

Don't forget Wade Davis came with Shields in that trade. Davis has had more impact in this playoff run than Shields who has been pretty mediocre for all of the big game James talk.

[JohnBriggs12]

Yuni Betencourt was also part of that trade. At least the Royals were able to include Odorizzi as part of a trade later on. The only thing Betencourt provided was pain and mental suffering.

 

 

Amazing how Brewer fans forget that Betancourt hit .267 from June 1st on with 10 HR and 50 RBI and a slugging percentage of .409 and the fact that he had 5 RBI in the NLCS vs. the Cardinals or that he led the league with 10 sacrifice flies that year.

 

While it's fine to point out his shortcomings, I think a little balance is in order.

[BrewBalls]

Yuni Betencourt was also part of that trade. At least the Royals were able to include Odorizzi as part of a trade later on. The only thing Betencourt provided was pain and mental suffering.

 

 

Amazing how Brewer fans forget that Betancourt hit .267 from June 1st on with 10 HR and 50 RBI and a slugging percentage of .409 and the fact that he had 5 RBI in the NLCS vs. the Cardinals or that he led the league with 10 sacrifice flies that year.

 

While it's fine to point out his shortcomings, I think a little balance is in order.

 

Good point. Yuni B was a spark plug for the Crew and did come up big in the playoffs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yuni Betencourt was also part of that trade. At least the Royals were able to include Odorizzi as part of a trade later on. The only thing Betencourt provided was pain and mental suffering.

 

 

Amazing how Brewer fans forget that Betancourt hit .267 from June 1st on with 10 HR and 50 RBI and a slugging percentage of .409 and the fact that he had 5 RBI in the NLCS vs. the Cardinals or that he led the league with 10 sacrifice flies that year.

 

While it's fine to point out his shortcomings, I think a little balance is in order.

It's not really amazing that Brewers fans don't celebrate a .690 OPS with a .280 OBP (what he posted from June - end of the regular season) with awful defense. He definitely had a good postseason offensively, but was also a defensive liability on several crucial plays.

 

Basically, he was Yuni B before, during, & after the 2011 season.

[3and2Fastball]

Yuni B!

 

According to Baseball Reference Yuni B had a -0.5 WAR in 2011. That means you could have replaced him with any AAAA/replacement type player and it would have been an improvement!!!

 

Melvin bringing him back in 2013 where he was worth -1.9 WAR (according to Fangraphs) is reason enough that Melvin should have been fired long ago

[jerichoholicninja]

Hypothetical...

 

The Greinke trade does happen but their team's success is reversed. The Royals, surprisingly, make it to the ALCS and lose in 2011 and the Brewers don't make the playoffs. The Brewers do whatever the Royals do this year. Who wins then?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yuni Betencourt was also part of that trade. At least the Royals were able to include Odorizzi as part of a trade later on. The only thing Betencourt provided was pain and mental suffering.

 

 

Amazing how Brewer fans forget that Betancourt hit .267 from June 1st on with 10 HR and 50 RBI and a slugging percentage of .409 and the fact that he had 5 RBI in the NLCS vs. the Cardinals or that he led the league with 10 sacrifice flies that year.

 

While it's fine to point out his shortcomings, I think a little balance is in order.

 

 

He also played awful defense, and had a terrible OBP. He was a negative WAR player. You can find any starting player who gets 550 plate appearances and cherry pick a few stats to try to find some value, but that doesn't mean he was worth having.

[Patrick425]

So, retrieved my paper from the paper box this morning and this was on the front page (the Paper copy just states "NED YOST DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK", with NED YOST in bold Blue).

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/ned-yost-doesnt-care-what-you-think-about-him-b99374456z1-279867492.html

[TURBO]

I'd take Yost over RRR any day. Yost at the very least has balls, RRR does not.

[TheCrew07]

So, retrieved my paper from the paper box this morning and this was on the front page (the Paper copy just states "NED YOST DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK", with NED YOST in bold Blue).

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/ned-yost-doesnt-care-what-you-think-about-him-b99374456z1-279867492.html

 

Think this quote is absolutely spot on and is by far my biggest gripe with out how most fans and baseball people treat inexperienced players:

 

"Ned never got credit in Milwaukee for sticking with young players and developing them to get to that point. He has done the same thing here. He stuck with guys when they were hitting .200, and look what happened down the stretch. They all benefit from the confidence a manager shows in them."

 

I say give them the room to grow instead of the constant benchings or getting sent back to AAA to dominate inferior competition. Every player is going to have a unique learning curve and not hitting or pitching well right away doesn't make a player any less "ready" than he was 3 weeks ago when everyone wanted him up to help.

[jerichoholicninja]

So, retrieved my paper from the paper box this morning and this was on the front page (the Paper copy just states "NED YOST DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK", with NED YOST in bold Blue).

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/ned-yost-doesnt-care-what-you-think-about-him-b99374456z1-279867492.html

 

Think this quote is absolutely spot on and is by far my biggest gripe with out how most fans and baseball people treat inexperience players:

 

"Ned never got credit in Milwaukee for sticking with young players and developing them to get to that point. He has done the same thing here. He stuck with guys when they were hitting .200, and look what happened down the stretch. They all benefit from the confidence a manager shows in them."

 

I say give them the room to grow instead of the constant benchings or getting sent back to AAA to dominate inferior competition. Every player is going to have a unique learning curve and not hitting or pitching well right away doesn't make a player any less "ready" than he was 3 weeks ago when everyone wanted him up to help.

 

I think that is pretty much the only thing about Ned Yost the BF liked. Me too. I would rather Ned's approach than Ron's constant rotating fringe major league veterans over younger players. It also begs the question, would Ned have stuck with McGehee or Yuni in 2011 despite them being absolutely terrible?

[TURBO]

"would Ned have stuck with McGehee or Yuni in 2011 despite them being absolutely terrible?"

 

I think we had the only manager in MLB that WOULD have stuck with them...

 

[logan82]

Yuni was the only option for a good part of the season. Not sure about McGehee. Ned would have probably stuck with McGehee.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think that is pretty much the only thing about Ned Yost the BF liked. Me too. I would rather Ned's approach than Ron's constant rotating fringe major league veterans over younger players. It also begs the question, would Ned have stuck with McGehee or Yuni in 2011 despite them being absolutely terrible?

 

RRR stuck with Davis, Gennett and Nelson when he could have easily replaced them with Parra, Weeks and Estrada when they struggled at various points in the season. I think given Ned stuck with Weeks it's safe to say he would have stuck with McGehee as well.

[fondybrewfan]

Every fan in existence seems to like their prior or future managers better than the current one. 5 years from now if we have a new manager everyone will fondly remember RR and wish we had him back. I sort of liked Yost back in the day but I wasn't in love with him either; I think RR is definitely a step up. I still love Phil Garner but I have no idea why. Its just one of those things.

 

Jerry Royster might be the only fairly recent Brewers manager that every fan can agree basically was horrible; everyone else there are varied opinions.

[nate82]

The only manager that the Brewers have had recently that wouldn't start young players consistently was Macha. The whole Gamel debacle was weird. He hits good in his first game against St. Louis and then all of a sudden he is on the bench and then back to AAA.

[greeg35]

These Brewer manager discussions always depress me. We should have better choices than curly, moe, and Larry. Reinforces my idea that managers have little positive impact, they mainly get in the way or mess things up. Keep RRR around to manage the clubhouse and hire a computer so he isn't forced into a position of weakness (having to think)

[TheCrew07]

The only manager that the Brewers have had recently that wouldn't start young players consistently was Macha. The whole Gamel debacle was weird. He hits good in his first game against St. Louis and then all of a sudden he is on the bench and then back to AAA.

 

Is that supposed to be a joke? After the all-star break in 2010 Macha sat Escobar every time he went 1-10 in a series claiming he was trying to hit HRs... he of 21 HRs in 2974 ABs. I wish Alcides would have filled out his frame more as he had double digit HR potential at his peak but those guys who go play winter ball aren't going to do that. Escobar only got a chance in 2009 because Melvin basically stole an extra year of Hardy's service time, that had less to do with Alcides than it did Hardy as Macha had no alternative but to play him.

 

Macha was the worst offender of the bunch which is why the organization latched onto McGehee at 3B over Gamel. Yea I know Mat blew out his knee 3 times so hasn't amounted to much but that doesn't mean his career path had to go the way it did. Sitting a top prospect on the bench, something he's never done, while adjusting to MLB pitching was a terrible way to introduce him to Major League baseball.

 

Macha was the one manager that I truly despised.

[trwi7]

The only manager that the Brewers have had recently that wouldn't start young players consistently was Macha. The whole Gamel debacle was weird. He hits good in his first game against St. Louis and then all of a sudden he is on the bench and then back to AAA.

 

Is that supposed to be a joke? After the all-star break in 2010 Macha sat Escobar every time he went 1-10 in a series claiming he was trying to hit HRs... he of 21 HRs in 2974 ABs. I wish Alcides would have filled out his frame more as he had double digit HR potential at his peak but those guys who go play winter ball aren't going to do that. Escobar only got a chance in 2009 because Melvin basically stole an extra year of Hardy's service time, that had less to do with Alcides than it did Hardy as Macha had no alternative but to play him.

 

Macha was the worst offender of the bunch which is why the organization latched onto McGehee at 3B over Gamel. Yea I know Mat blew out his knee 3 times so hasn't amounted to much but that doesn't mean his career path had to go the way it did. Sitting a top prospect on the bench, something he's never done, while adjusting to MLB pitching was a terrible way to introduce him to Major League baseball.

 

Macha was the one manager that I truly despised.

 

You read that wrong. He said Macha was the one manager we've had recently that wouldn't play young players.

[danzig6767]

Hypothetical...

 

The Greinke trade does happen but their team's success is reversed. The Royals, surprisingly, make it to the ALCS and lose in 2011 and the Brewers don't make the playoffs. The Brewers do whatever the Royals do this year. Who wins then?

 

These playoffs are such a prime example of what largely a crapshoot the playoffs of late have become, with no clear formula required. Had there a game where say any baseball fans before the playoffs could have won a prize by predicting what two teams would end up in the World Series, odds are high that the least likely pairing picked would have been KC and SF. Simply get in and you have a shot.

 

Just look at KC. They were down 7-3 in the bottom of the 8th with Lester cruising. After giving up three runs, Oakland still lead 7-6 in the 9th. Then after the game being tied, Oakland was up a run in the 12th inning, only to still lose. If hypothetically that game could be replayed 10 more times from that exact point in the 8th inning, my money is on Oakland winning all 10 times. Yost maybe gets fired after KC fans rage over his decision in the 6th inning and instead he'll get an extension.

 

San Fran wins multiple playoff games on weird stuff like errors, wild pitches/passed balls, and then seeing eye base hits vs the Cardinals. On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

I'm very happy for KC fans to finally experience success after decades of mostly futility. As a long time Brewers fan who witnessed decades of losing, i can relate. That said, the playoffs for awhile now have shown you don't have to be a great team to make the World Series. Don't have to have aces in your rotation. You just need more breaks to go your way than against and get hot at that exact time for whatever reason, then your team could be playing in the World Series.

[jerichoholicninja]

Hypothetical...

 

The Greinke trade does happen but their team's success is reversed. The Royals, surprisingly, make it to the ALCS and lose in 2011 and the Brewers don't make the playoffs. The Brewers do whatever the Royals do this year. Who wins then?

 

These playoffs are such a prime example of what largely a crapshoot the playoffs of late have become, with no clear formula required. Had there a game where say any baseball fans before the playoffs could have won a prize by predicting what two teams would end up in the World Series, odds are high that the least likely pairing picked would have been KC and SF. Simply get in and you have a shot.

 

Just look at KC. They were down 7-3 in the bottom of the 8th with Lester cruising. After giving up three runs, Oakland still lead 7-6 in the 9th. Then after the game being tied, Oakland was up a run in the 12th inning, only to still lose. If hypothetically that game could be replayed 10 more times from that exact point in the 8th inning, my money is on Oakland winning all 10 times. Yost maybe gets fired after KC fans rage over his decision in the 6th inning and instead he'll get an extension.

 

San Fran wins multiple playoff games on weird stuff like errors, wild pitches/passed balls, and then seeing eye base hits vs the Cardinals. On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

I'm very happy for KC fans to finally experience success after decades of mostly futility. As a long time Brewers fan who witnessed decades of losing, i can relate. That said, the playoffs for awhile now have shown you don't have to be a great team to make the World Series. Don't have to have aces in your rotation. You just need more breaks to go your way than against and get hot at that exact time for whatever reason, then your team could be playing in the World Series.

 

This is so true. Making the playoffs takes a well-built team, health, and a few breaks here and there. Winning a World Series takes mostly good fortune.

[Thurston Fluff]

On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

The idea that you have to have a legitimate, top of the rotation ace, to win in the playoffs is one of the most over hyped, over stated, obviously false, beliefs in all of sports.

[TURBO]

On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

The idea that you have to have a legitimate, top of the rotation ace, to win in the playoffs is one of the most over hyped, over stated, obviously false, beliefs in all of sports.

 

It sure doesn't hurt though...

[Thurston Fluff]

On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

The idea that you have to have a legitimate, top of the rotation ace, to win in the playoffs is one of the most over hyped, over stated, obviously false, beliefs in all of sports.

 

It sure doesn't hurt though...

 

It does if you overpay to get one based on the false premise you need him to win a World Series.

[TURBO]

On the flip side, teams like LA and Detroit with multiple aces which supposedly are required to advance in the playoffs get bounced early.

 

The idea that you have to have a legitimate, top of the rotation ace, to win in the playoffs is one of the most over hyped, over stated, obviously false, beliefs in all of sports.

 

It sure doesn't hurt though...

 

It does if you overpay to get one based on the false premise you need him to win a World Series.

 

 

You didn't say anything about overpaying an ace, you just said the idea of an ace is over hyped, over stated, obviously false, etc...