What would you do if you were GM?

[TheCrew07]

I agree he's ultimately responsible but he's not personally making the decisions.

[MNBrew]

Paul253, I'm not sure how the Brewers overpaid for Garza & Lohse, as you state they did. You may not like the contracts they signed, but these guys pitched pretty darn well and, most importantly toward your assertion that the Brewers are paying them more than they should've, did so for below-market value.

 

I get that you wish they'd not signed those SPs to those contracts, that there are other guys you'd rather have invested time into earning those positions -- home-grown guys -- but that's not the same as overpaying relative to market value.

 

Right now Jimmy Nelson's proven that he's no sure thing, as he's pitched increasingly worse the longer he was trotted out there. What will be interesting to find out is if he has a Peralta-esque ceiling to him, or if, over time, reaching Estrada levels of performance is something we'd eventually look upon favorably from him. His AAA numbers are killer and they provide plenty of promise, but his MLB numbers in a solid half-season are not comforting or promising at all.

[logan82]

They gave up a pick for Lohse. He didn't improve the team enough to put us in the playoffs. The only way that contract is worth it is if he is traded for good young talent. The money on the deal isn't bad. I have little problem with the Garza deal.

[MNBrew]

Most any pick they've made since Braun hasn't improved the team enough to put 'em in the playoffs, either.

 

While I'd rather not have given up the pick, the fact is that the previous rotation was not very good and the presence of Lohse added a veteran arm that's helped greatly improve a rotation that needed substantial improvement -- right away, not 3-6 years hence following a draft pick IF the pick actually panned out.

[paul253]

Paul253, I'm not sure how the Brewers overpaid for Garza & Lohse, as you state they did. You may not like the contracts they signed, but these guys pitched pretty darn well and, most importantly toward your assertion that the Brewers are paying them more than they should've, did so for below-market value.

I'm not saying they paid more specifically for Lohse or Garza than they should have. I'm saying they spent more on free agents pitchers than they should have. They didn't need to sign Garza because (at the time) Thornburg and Nelson and even Smith could have competed for that spot. Thornburg was coming off an extremely successful stint as a starter at the end of 2013 but was given zero shot at making the rotation this year. That money could have gone elsewhere, like maybe first base. And I can't remember who their options were when they signed Lohse but I didn't like that move either because a) it cost them a top 20 pick when their system was worse than it is now and b) it screamed of a panic move. All the Lohse signing did was solidify their spot as a .500ish team.

[Roderick]

They gave up a pick for Lohse. He didn't improve the team enough to put us in the playoffs. The only way that contract is worth it is if he is traded for good young talent. The money on the deal isn't bad. I have little problem with the Garza deal.

 

The money was discounted because the Brewers had to give up a pick. So we saved on his fair mkt value. Plus you can also say the Brewers took the first round pick money they would have spent and used it to acquire two Dominican players. So I guess if you want to look at getting good young talent, lets see where those kids end up, maybe one of them climbs the ladder at some point.

[TheCrew07]

The money was discounted because the Brewers had to give up a pick. So we saved on his fair mkt value.

 

Not exactly, it cost the organization a talented player of some type. Too often the discussions around here come down to payroll flexibility and once again I submit the real goal to be chasing is talent flexibility. Lohse could pitch to a 2.0 ERA and what would it ultimately mean if the Brewers never make the playoffs?

 

Plus you can also say the Brewers took the first round pick money they would have spent and used it to acquire two Dominican players. So I guess if you want to look at getting good young talent, lets see where those kids end up, maybe one of them climbs the ladder at some point.

 

Sure you can say that but it's categorically untrue, the Brewers didn't exceed either the international bonus or draft pools in 2013 so that money didn't go towards amateur players at all.

 

As stated many times, neither Lohse nor Garza has been the difference in pushing this team over the top, at least the Garza signing didn't carry the additional opportunity cost of losing a potential impact talent. However we're only in year 1 of the Garza deal and there's no way I'd go out on a limb and claim I think that contract is going to end well. I really liked both Garza and Marcum early in their careers but I wouldn't have tried to acquire them when the Brewers did, the ship of healthy and productive longevity with any team had long sailed by then.

 

I think many fans have simply denied the opportunity costs which have come from all of the short term moves this organization has made. There's been no such thing as a win/win, that's not how it works with short sighted and term moves, there is always some kind of negative which will circle back around. Acquiring Sabathia directly led to 2009/2010 and the Greinke/Marcum moves directly led to where we are now. Signing Lohse has failed to make a significant impact on the Brewers' fortunes and also cost them a 1st round pick. Sure we didn't trade any impact talent in those deals but we certainly didn't acquire any impact talent with longevity whom could permanently plug a hole either so the same problems just keep coming back around. There are always pluses and minuses but for whatever reason many posters have focused only on the potential short term upside, even DM and MA have admitted those moves came with a long term cost.

[Warning Track Power]

My list of priorities for the Brewers:

 

1. Focus on Development:

The time is now. The St. Louis team and their voodoo aren't going anywhere. The Baby Cubs are arriving and their pockets are deep. The Pirates, while certainly not world beaters, are deeper than us, and the Reds seem to be in a similar boat as we are. I am not sure there is a move out there that would allow us to catch the Cardinals in 2015 or the Cubs once their rise begins in 2015, so we need to focus on the development of the team for the next window which could occur within 3-4 years. Focus on scouting and developing the minor league system and stop making deals for the present.

 

2. Fire Roenicke:

Horrible fundamentals pretty much sums up the Roenicke Brewers. I can't stand seeing other teams play so solid fundamentally i.e. not running into baserunning outs daily, ability to bunt, work a count, situational hit. The Brewers do none of these well and it was maybe ok when we had Braun and Fielder bopping the ball around the yard, but that isn't the team we have anymore on O. Hire a manager like Buck Showalter who is a presence and who isn't the players best friend. This team needs a dad, your biggest support and your biggest critic when you aren't doing the right things. Roenicke is not that guy. I am not sure who that guy is but this team needs some discipline desperately.

 

3. Sign Chase Headley & let Aramis Ramirez walk:

The Brewers are a .500 team today and probably are a .500 team next season with no tweaks. If they somehow catch lightning in a bottle, they may be a 85-88 win team next year or they may be a 75 win team. Unfortunately, this isn't good enough for a fire sale and Attanasio would never trade the guys necessary to completely dismantle the team and re-build (Braun, Lucroy, Gomez) properly. The goal should thus to be fill in the areas of deficiency to hopefully catch that lightning while you focus on re-building through the draft and scouting with high ceiling not low floor prospects. The 2014 draft with Medeiros, Gatewood and Harrison and the Gilbert Lara signing were a good start. This starts with allowing an old Ramirez to walk and filling 3B with Chase Headley. For what may be a similar asking price, give me the younger, switch hitting Headley over the tail end of the career Ramirez.

 

4. Platoon Segura with Gennett at 2B and at SS. Sign a SS-first, Hairston-type UTIL IF:

While I think Gennett will eventually hit LHP and I think he should get 33% of the starts against LHP in 2015, I think Segura needs to be part of a platoon at 2B and SS until he proves he is an everyday player again. Finding a veteran presence at UTIL (not Elian Herrera or Irving Falu), to platoon at SS, like a Hairston or Counsell, will have an enormous impact on the Brewers ability to field a team with depth in 2015.

 

5. Trade for Scott Van Slyke to be the 1B:

With Matt Kemp, Adrian Gonzalez, Yasiel Puig and Joc Pederson blocking Van Slyke at the 4 positions he plays, the Dodgers may look to move him in the 2014 offseason. I am unsure as to what the richest team in baseball would want from the Brewers, but I am willing to move something of value to get him.

 

6. Stick with the rotation:

While there is no true ace, I don't think trading Yo, Lohse or Garza will bring back the equivalent talent in return. As such, hold them to go with Peralta and Fiers in 2015. Now, if the Dodgers wanted Lohse or Gallardo for Van Slyke, by all means make the deal and stick Nelson in the rotation. While some may disagree with holding Yo, Lohse or Garza, if the Brewers were to get nothing better than say a Hunter Morris-type prospect in return, why make the deal?

 

7. Dangle Gomez in the event a franchise changing deal can be made:

An affordable, in their prime, 30-30 talent with a Gold Glove is rarely available in a deal. If for some reason a team wanted Gomez and wanted to trade an ace prospect or fill multiple holes in the future, the Brewers have to consider this deal. While the team is a .500 team with him, the goal should be 3-4 years from now and if someone wants to meet the Brewers asking price, they should listen.

 

8. If Gomez isn't dealt, stick with the OF as is:

A healthy Gomez, Braun, Davis and Parra is an above average OF on both O and D. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

I have other things that could be stated, but I think the Brewers can have the best of both worlds, remain an above .500 team while re-building the minors over the next 3-4 seasons, with minor tweaks in the offseason.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I would trade for Cespedes