How do we turn this sad franchise around?

[TURBO]

Tulo can't stay on the field for a full season, he is a walking injury... Any team that mortgages their entire future has a severe risk of being burnt.........crispy.

[LouisEly]

Say what you want about Melvin, but at least he hasn't handcuffed the franchise with ridiculous contracts such as the ones given to Fielder, Votto, Kemp, Ethier, Howard, etc. He has given the Brewers a lot of flexibility in that area.

 

Also, as a reminder, the GM has virtually nothing to do with the draft, outside of perhaps lending some insight on likely demands from agents he has negotiated with in the past. The draft is pretty much all on the scouting director. While Jack Z could find bats, he couldn't find arms and that has made Melvin's job much more difficult. I was not sad to see Jack Z go.

 

We shouldn't be comparing the Brewers to the Pirates or Cubs right now. Those two teams have had top-5/10 picks for many years, many of them in recent years under much different rules than when the Brewers had top-10 picks in the early 2000's. There is now protection for unsigned picks and compensation in the following draft plus bonus pool restrictions; the Brewers didn't have that protection in the early/mid 2000s so they had to be much more careful/conservative with their draft picks. BTW, the Cubs last won a World Series when there were 16 teams in the league; unlike the Cubs, at least the Brewers have been to the World Series in my 66-year-old father's lifetime.

 

I think some forget how barren the entire system was in 2002 when Melvin took over. To be in the playoffs six years later was a remarkable accomplishment. To sustain that success - as evidenced by not having a top-10 pick in the draft since 2007 - despite resources in the bottom half of the league to me says he is doing a good job. Not a great job, but a good job. It could be much worse.

[phnxcrew]

I agree thoroughly that this franchise needs a large scale make over. Those of us who agree with the stache are in a camp of "good enough isn't good enough anymore". Good enough meaning essentially an outside shot at competing most years and once and awhile having a decent chance at making a deep run. It's fine if you are ok with seasons like this where almost being competitive is enough however this is why the brewers still have the tag of "losers". We need to change what's good enough for us as fans before upper management will. As long as the majority of us are ok with a team around .500 Mark A will be. Look at the team we hate... cardinals fans go nuts if they're only ten games above .500 no matter the injuries or who's on the field.

 

That said there's absolutely no way we can compete with the cardinals/ cubs/ pirates or the reds for that matter with our current "just throw a band aid on it" philosophy. Young, high end talent needs to be acquired one way or another . I wouldn't mind a couple rebuilding years personally.

[logan82]

The system wasn't barren in 2002. Melvin took over a team with JJ Hardy and Prince Fielder already in the minors in addition to a few good MLB players.

 

Hooray he's kept us mediocre.

[rickh150]

An average Ryan Braun.... not an MVP Braun, just an average one, and we are in the playoffs somehow this year.

 

My point? No way does this thread exist. Melvin and Roenicke are lauded as guys who have the Brewers playing well and in the playoffs again. The past would still be what it is. The future would still be cloudy and merky, at best, with the other teams in the division. Yet this thread of "woe is me because of our SAD organization (really?)" would be replaced with "Hey, the Brewers are coming around!"

 

Yes, this end of the season has been sad, but it still isn't over. Baseball is a CRAZY game; this possibly could be the best baseball story ever told.

[Pugger]

An average Ryan Braun.... not an MVP Braun, just an average one, and we are in the playoffs somehow this year.

 

My point? No way does this thread exist. Melvin and Roenicke are lauded as guys who have the Brewers playing well and in the playoffs again. The past would still be what it is. The future would still be cloudy and merky, at best, with the other teams in the division. Yet this thread of "woe is me because of our SAD organization (really?)" would be replaced with "Hey, the Brewers are coming around!"

 

Yes, this end of the season has been sad, but it still isn't over. Baseball is a CRAZY game; this possibly could be the best baseball story ever told.

 

But we didn't come around. We had a nice lead in the division and pissed it all away with poor play in an epic collapse. I can't think of many teams where a GM or manager would survive a nose dive like the one we witnessed this season. We do not play sound defensive baseball and we are undisciplined at the plate. I'm sick of watching Gomez swing at pitches in the dirt while he screws himself into the ground as his helmet falls off. I'm tired of the rest of the guys who swing at balls and watch strikes fly across the middle of the plate. Why can't we get a fly ball when we have a runner at 3rd with only one out? I'm weary of RR keeping his starter in there even when everyone and his brother can see he doesn't have it any longer. Why won't he have more than one guy up and throwing in the bullpen just in case his reliever can't find the plate? By the time it is obvious and he gets another one up we give up the lead or fall further behind. The way RR uses his pitchers drives me crazy.

[The stache]

An average Ryan Braun.... not an MVP Braun, just an average one, and we are in the playoffs somehow this year.

 

My point? No way does this thread exist. Melvin and Roenicke are lauded as guys who have the Brewers playing well and in the playoffs again. The past would still be what it is. The future would still be cloudy and merky, at best, with the other teams in the division. Yet this thread of "woe is me because of our SAD organization (really?)" would be replaced with "Hey, the Brewers are coming around!"

 

Yes, this end of the season has been sad, but it still isn't over. Baseball is a CRAZY game; this possibly could be the best baseball story ever told.

 

I don't think so. Braun makes some of the games we lost closer, but Braun wasn't fixing the bullpen implosion, and the starting pitching implosion. Our starting pitchers, for about a month, had an ERA of over 6.

 

It's amazing to me how some of you have just seemed to accept mediocrity.

 

"Well, if this player had just an average season, this thread doesn't exist."

 

Sure it does. Because ultimately, our season still ends short of a World Series title. Even if Braun had hit his usual 30 home runs, this team still can't play small ball. This team still make mind blowing mistakes in the field. This teams still has what I hesitate to call AAA talent at first base.

 

I want to stop being the butt of the joke whenever baseball is being talked about, and the city Milwaukee comes up. Most of us weren't around to remember when Milwaukee actually had a parade downtown to celebrate a championship. Our last NBA Championship was in 1971. Our last Major League Baseball Championship was in 1957. I don't need this team to become the New York Yankees. It's not going to happen. But a World Series win once every 10-15 years would be nice. Hell, one win would be nice period would be nice. Just seeing us popping the champagne after winning the World Series would make me happy. Anything else would be frosting on the cake.

 

But from some of you, it's "So, if we signed Miguel Cabrera, and Clayton Kershaw, and Mike Trout, and Jose Altuve, THEN you'd be happy!"

 

No. What would make me happy? The have our owner, the day after we are eliminated from the playoffs, come out in front of the cameras, and say something like this..

 

"The city of Milwaukee, and Brewer fans everywhere deserve better. They have waited patiently, more than four decades for a championship, and more than three decades just to get back to the World Series. And my priority is winning a championship for our fans. Every year, Brewer fans fill Miller Park. Brewer fans spend their hard earned money to come and support our franchise, no matter what the economy is doing. We have the best fans in baseball, and I want more for them. Maybe they will not say that a change is needed. But I will. And I will no longer tolerate mediocrity. I will be spending this offseason interviewing candidates to fill our vacant general manager and team manager positions. I wish to thank Doug Melvin and Ron Roenicke for the years they have given to our organization. They are good men, and they have worked hard to put a winning team on the field. It is clear that changes needed to be made. We were not showing the necessary improvements that I as an owner needed to see from one year to the next. I cannot guarantee that we will win a World Series this year, or the next year, or ever. There are 29 other teams in the Major Leagues trying to accomplish the same thing we are. Winning the World Series is hard. So while I cannot guarantee we will hoist the trophy, and spray champagne in October, I want you to know that this franchise, from the owner on down, is held accountable. And we will aggressively pursue the championship that has eluded us. Every person that becomes part of this franchise, from the front office, the coaching staff, and the players, will do so with the understanding that we demand excellence. If a person cannot give 100% every day, they should not be here. We will eliminate the stigma associated with this team. We will be winners, and that fight to the top begins now."

 

If I heard something like that, I would be happy. We are never going to get better until the entire culture of this franchise changes. We are so used to losing, and missing the playoffs completely that we have accepted mediocrity.

 

No more.

[The stache]

An average Ryan Braun.... not an MVP Braun, just an average one, and we are in the playoffs somehow this year.

 

My point? No way does this thread exist. Melvin and Roenicke are lauded as guys who have the Brewers playing well and in the playoffs again. The past would still be what it is. The future would still be cloudy and merky, at best, with the other teams in the division. Yet this thread of "woe is me because of our SAD organization (really?)" would be replaced with "Hey, the Brewers are coming around!"

 

Yes, this end of the season has been sad, but it still isn't over. Baseball is a CRAZY game; this possibly could be the best baseball story ever told.

 

But we didn't come around. We had a nice lead in the division and pissed it all away with poor play in an epic collapse. I can't think of many teams where a GM or manager would survive a nose dive like the one we witnessed this season. We do not play sound defensive baseball and we are undisciplined at the plate. I'm sick of watching Gomez swing at pitches in the dirt while he screws himself into the ground as his helmet falls off. I'm tired of the rest of the guys who swing at balls and watch strikes fly across the middle of the plate. Why can't we get a fly ball when we have a runner at 3rd with only one out? I'm weary of RR keeping his starter in there even when everyone and his brother can see he doesn't have it any longer. Why won't he have more than one guy up and throwing in the bullpen just in case his reliever can't find the plate? By the time it is obvious and he gets another one up we give up the lead or fall further behind. The way RR uses his pitchers drives me crazy.

 

I agree. And another thing he does makes me nuts. He is constantly fiddling with the lineup. It's almost as if he picks names out of a hat, as if changing the sequence in which the hitters come to the plate is going to magically turn us into the 1954 Cleveland Indians (only with them winning the Series). Moving a player around occasionally might be beneficial. But he does it to an extreme, and it's disruptive.

[The stache]

I agree thoroughly that this franchise needs a large scale make over. Those of us who agree with the stache are in a camp of "good enough isn't good enough anymore". Good enough meaning essentially an outside shot at competing most years and once and awhile having a decent chance at making a deep run. It's fine if you are ok with seasons like this where almost being competitive is enough however this is why the brewers still have the tag of "losers". We need to change what's good enough for us as fans before upper management will. As long as the majority of us are ok with a team around .500 Mark A will be. Look at the team we hate... cardinals fans go nuts if they're only ten games above .500 no matter the injuries or who's on the field.

 

That said there's absolutely no way we can compete with the cardinals/ cubs/ pirates or the reds for that matter with our current "just throw a band aid on it" philosophy. Young, high end talent needs to be acquired one way or another . I wouldn't mind a couple rebuilding years personally.

 

I wouldn't mind if it were clear that there was a plan in place. If we have to trade some veteran players to make it happen, ok. I would keep Jonathan Lucroy for one thing. I would keep Scooter Gennett. It was mentioned how the Orioles had a few platoon players, and that helped them be successful. Ok, so let's find a middle infielder that compliments Scooter. A piece that can play multiple defensive positions while providing solid hitting. Scooter isn't expensive, and won't be expensive going forward. Find that complimentary piece that can play second when we're going against a left handed starter, and spell other infielders (shortstop, third base) occasionally when he's not playing second.

 

I like players that are strong fundamentally, and have the flexibility to play multiple places.

 

I would keep Gerardo Parra. He's a little bit better hitter than I expected he would be. He might not keep that up, but his defensive ability alone would make him worth keeping. Work with Khris Davis, too. If he can become more patient at the plate, and raise his OBP, I like him on this team long term. He's going to provide power, not only home runs, but doubles, too. And he'll score and drive in runs. I'd keep Braun, too. I'd keep him, and I'd consult at least ten different hand surgeons, the best in the world, to see if there are any other possible solutions we've not thought of. I would consider trading Khris Davis to see what we could get for him in return. I'd like to keep him if possible, but he's still got to be more selective at the plate. I've seen him do it for spurts, then he reverts back to his old form. His defense, and his base running, are excellent. I would love to see him up his OBP more, to get on the base more, and cause more pitchers to lose their concentration.

[Pugger]

I agree thoroughly that this franchise needs a large scale make over. Those of us who agree with the stache are in a camp of "good enough isn't good enough anymore". Good enough meaning essentially an outside shot at competing most years and once and awhile having a decent chance at making a deep run. It's fine if you are ok with seasons like this where almost being competitive is enough however this is why the brewers still have the tag of "losers". We need to change what's good enough for us as fans before upper management will. As long as the majority of us are ok with a team around .500 Mark A will be. Look at the team we hate... cardinals fans go nuts if they're only ten games above .500 no matter the injuries or who's on the field.

 

That said there's absolutely no way we can compete with the cardinals/ cubs/ pirates or the reds for that matter with our current "just throw a band aid on it" philosophy. Young, high end talent needs to be acquired one way or another . I wouldn't mind a couple rebuilding years personally.

 

I wouldn't mind if it were clear that there was a plan in place. If we have to trade some veteran players to make it happen, ok. I would keep Jonathan Lucroy for one thing. I would keep Scooter Gennett. It was mentioned how the Orioles had a few platoon players, and that helped them be successful. Ok, so let's find a middle infielder that compliments Scooter. A piece that can play multiple defensive positions while providing solid hitting. Scooter isn't expensive, and won't be expensive going forward. Find that complimentary piece that can play second when we're going against a left handed starter, and spell other infielders (shortstop, third base) occasionally when he's not playing second.

 

I like players that are strong fundamentally, and have the flexibility to play multiple places.

 

I would keep Gerardo Parra. He's a little bit better hitter than I expected he would be. He might not keep that up, but his defensive ability alone would make him worth keeping. Work with Khris Davis, too. If he can become more patient at the plate, and raise his OBP, I like him on this team long term. He's going to provide power, not only home runs, but doubles, too. And he'll score and drive in runs. I'd keep Braun, too. I'd keep him, and I'd consult at least ten different hand surgeons, the best in the world, to see if there are any other possible solutions we've not thought of. I would consider trading Khris Davis to see what we could get for him in return. I'd like to keep him if possible, but he's still got to be more selective at the plate. I've seen him do it for spurts, then he reverts back to his old form. His defense, and his base running, are excellent. I would love to see him up his OBP more, to get on the base more, and cause more pitchers to lose their concentration.

 

I would love it if more of our guys got on base and distracted pitchers but they always seem to be hitting for the fence when a single or a walk would do nicely. Big leaguers drive me nuts when a pitcher can't find the plate with the bases loaded and they swing and pop up ball 4 and get themselves out (it isn't just our guys who do this).

[sveumrules]

DMGM took over following the 2002 season. In the 3 seasons prior to his arrival Milwaukee lost 289 games, 2nd most in all of MLB. In 2005 the Brewers finished 81-81, their first non-losing season in 12 years. In the 10 years from 2005 through today the Brewers have gone 819-794 giving them the 11th best record in MLB over that time frame, essentially tied with Tampa Bay at 819-795.

 

The 10 teams from 2005-14 with better records than MIL have been NYY, LAA, STL, BOS, PHI, DET, ATL, LAD, OAK (836-775) & TEX. All large market/rich teams with the exception of OAK.

 

During the last 10 years under Melvin, Milwaukee teams have performed on par with TB & slightly worse (less than 2 wins per season) than OAK, two franchises who are held up as the ideally run small market teams.

 

A "sad franchise"? Did I accidentally wander onto padrefan.net?

[pebadger]

Finding a way to win the next 7 games wouldn't necessarily answer any questions, but it would at least make them moot for a day or two.

[giffted1]

DMGM took over following the 2002 season. In the 3 seasons prior to his arrival Milwaukee lost 289 games, 2nd most in all of MLB. In 2005 the Brewers finished 81-81, their first non-losing season in 12 years. In the 10 years from 2005 through today the Brewers have gone 819-794 giving them the 11th best record in MLB over that time frame, essentially tied with Tampa Bay at 819-795.

 

The 10 teams from 2005-14 with better records than MIL have been NYY, LAA, STL, BOS, PHI, DET, ATL, LAD, OAK (836-775) & TEX. All large market/rich teams with the exception of OAK.

 

During the last 10 years under Melvin, Milwaukee teams have performed on par with TB & slightly worse (less than 2 wins per season) than OAK, two franchises who are held up as the ideally run small market teams.

 

A "sad franchise"? Did I accidentally wander onto padrefan.net?

This.

 

If this is a "sad franchise" now, what were we in 2002? The way we played during this collapse is how we looked all season back then.

 

There's accepting mediocrity, and there's accepting reality. The Brewers will never be a perennial playoff team. It just can't happen with the market we're in.

 

If frequent playoff/world series appearances is your standard for a franchise, you're never going to be happy as a Brewers fan.

[TheCrew07]

Say what you want about Melvin, but at least he hasn't handcuffed the franchise with ridiculous contracts such as the ones given to Fielder, Votto, Kemp, Ethier, Howard, etc. He has given the Brewers a lot of flexibility in that area.

 

That is the most ridiculously paper thin justification of Melvin I've read... he didn't sign any mega contracts, which tend to work out horribly, simply because the Brewers couldn't possibly afford one of those contracts in the first place. Hooray for not doing something that wasn't even an option?Even though he did sign A-Rod to the first mega contract in baseball history on his way out in Texas...

 

The Brewers don't have payroll flexibility, they've been right up against the budget since 2007.

 

Payroll flexibility shouldn't be the end goal anyway, flexibility of talent should be the goal; a deep and talent organization from top to bottom with a good mix of impact youngsters and veterans on the MLB roster.

 

Melvin is very good at being mediocre, regardless of where he's been the GM, but that's not good enough for me personally. His "best" moves were bought with prospects, when that currency dried up so did his ability to make any kind of meaningful short term move. Not that I've been a believer in the organization's short term philosophy from the start. However this is where we are and I'm not sure how tomorrow is going to be better given how the team has operated over the last decade, the same patterns just keep repeating themselves.

[logan82]

I think people accept we won't be a perennial playoff team. It would be nice if the team would at some point quit plugging holes and make the choice to acquire players for the future.

[The stache]

DMGM took over following the 2002 season. In the 3 seasons prior to his arrival Milwaukee lost 289 games, 2nd most in all of MLB. In 2005 the Brewers finished 81-81, their first non-losing season in 12 years. In the 10 years from 2005 through today the Brewers have gone 819-794 giving them the 11th best record in MLB over that time frame, essentially tied with Tampa Bay at 819-795.

 

The 10 teams from 2005-14 with better records than MIL have been NYY, LAA, STL, BOS, PHI, DET, ATL, LAD, OAK (836-775) & TEX. All large market/rich teams with the exception of OAK.

 

During the last 10 years under Melvin, Milwaukee teams have performed on par with TB & slightly worse (less than 2 wins per season) than OAK, two franchises who are held up as the ideally run small market teams.

 

A "sad franchise"? Did I accidentally wander onto padrefan.net?

 

This franchise has been around a lot longer than the 2002 season, of course. We were sad a long time before that, too. But since we're talking Doug Melvin, let's look at Melvin's tenure.

 

Melvin has been our GM for 13 seasons now. We've made the playoffs twice. We've won our division once in thirteen seasons. We've finished second twice. Third five times, unless something changes in our last few games. Fourth twice. Sixth three times.

 

The Brewers under Melvin currently have a 1,010-1,088 record. (.481)

 

You contend that the teams with big payrolls, and playing in the biggest markets, are winning the World Series. But three times in the last six seasons, the Brewers were only two spots behind the eventual World Series winner.

 

In 2013, the Red Sox won the WS. They were 4th in team alary. We were 16th.

In 2012, the Giants won the WS. They were 8th in team salary. We were 10th.

In 2011, the Cardinals won the WS. They were 11th in team salary. We were 17th.

In 2010, the Giants won the WS. They were 8th in team salary. We were 10th.

In 2009, the Yankees won the WS. They were 1st in team salary. We were 17th.

In 2008, the Phillies won the WS. They were 13th in team salary. We were 15th.

 

In 2012, 2010 and 2008, the Giants and Phillies won the World Series. The Giants were 8th in team salary, and the Brewers were 10th. When the Philadelphia Phillies won in 2008, they were 13th in salary. We were 15th.

 

So, your contention that the teams that have been winning the World Series have so much more money than us is inaccurate. The two seasons the Giants won, they spent about $20 million more than we did. A difference, but not a huge one.

 

No matter how you slice it, the Brewers have been inept for nearly the entire time since they moved to Milwaukee. They had a 4 or 5 season period in the late 70s/early 80s where they were good. They had a few seasons in the 90s where they were pretty good. They've gone to the playoffs twice in thirteen seasons under Melvin.

 

We have won 90 games or more four times since 1982. And winning 90 games is not a big deal. But we've done it four times in 32 seasons.

 

In 1987, we won 91 games.

In 1992, we won 92 games.

In 2008, we won 90 games.

In 2011, we won 96 games.

 

I'm sorry, but this franchise has been terrible overall with a few short spurts where we had some success. And we're going nowhere now.

 

The point is that Doug Melvin has NEVER had success as a General Manager. He's managed to be an assistant general manager, or a manager for going on three decades now. His teams have won 7 playoff games in total.

 

How much longer are you willing to give this guy? Thirteen years. We've sniffed the World Series once, and that's the best a Doug Melvin constructed team has ever done. And since that 96 win season, we've gone backwards.

 

How much longer are we going to just sit here treading water before people get sick of it?

We could give Doug Melvin five more years. And the names would be different, but the reality would be the same. The Brewers would be one of the best power hitting teams in the Majors, and one of the best two or three in the National League, if not the top power hitting team. This team would probably steal a good deal of bases, but would get thrown out enough where the stolen bases were ultimately not helpful. We would struggle scoring for large chunks of the season when a few of our hitters would cool down. We might make the playoffs once more, but likely lose in the first round.

 

That's just not good enough for me, and it shouldn't be for any Brewer fans.

[Baldkin]

Okay then, who's your replacement who you guarantee who will do better over the next 5 seasons?

 

Almost everyone here, 6 years ago, wanted Jack Z as the new GM. How's he done in Seattle?

[trwi7]

Okay then, who's your replacement who you guarantee who will do better over the next 5 seasons?

 

Almost everyone here, 6 years ago, wanted Jack Z as the new GM. How's he done in Seattle?

 

Right. We should just keep status quo because somebody else might be worse. That's hardly a defense for keeping someone.

[The stache]

Okay then, who's your replacement who you guarantee who will do better over the next 5 seasons?

 

Almost everyone here, 6 years ago, wanted Jack Z as the new GM. How's he done in Seattle?

 

First of all, nowhere have I guaranteed that we would do better over the next 5 seasons if we made major changes. In fact, if we bring a whole new group in to run this franchise for Mark Attanasio, we will likely do worse than we have been for the next few years. All I do know is that if we keep the current regime, from the General Manager on down, we will not see any appreciable improvements; not over the next year, or the next five years. If we kept Doug Melvin for the next decade, I feel confident in saying that we wouldn't make it to the World Series during that time. Now, anything is possible. After yet another season of comparative futility, maybe Doug Melvin completely rethinks his drafting strategies. Maybe in 2015 he would be much more aggressive in free agency. That could happen. But more than likely, not. I feel we will keep getting more of the same for as long as Melvin is here. 27 years of baseball is a sizable sampling, and based off of the data from that nearly three decades of Doug Melvin baseball, I feel we will be experiencing the same highs and lows, with more lows.

 

Who Mark Attanasio brings in is up to him. I'm sure he has other people in baseball he talks to. He knows which other Major League Teams are run well.

[rickh150]

Stache-Accusing most Brewers fans of "accepting mediocre play" is a bunch of crap. We have been supporting this organization in a sport that unlike the NFL, is not playing on a level playing field in terms of money, FA desirability (although we have come a long way), and signings of international players. If we were on a more level playing field (Salary cap, international players in the draft), I'd be shotgun in your bus. We're not on that playing field yet. No small market team is and will be as long as the big markets have monopoly money to play with in terms of local TV money. Limited revenue sharing, the extra wildcard, and a few different draft rules are helping, but the sport still favors the money. Joe Schmo could run the Dodgers or Yankees and probably outperform most smaller markets because of the money difference yet today. Money could buy Joe Schmo better drafters and decision makers so he wouldn't have to do it too.

 

Love how you picked out two years when the WS winner had 20 million dollars or so more money than we did those years? Those were the best two you could get, huh? Nice. Thanks for proving my point more. Having David Cone in 92, a SS in 2011, Fielder/closer in 2012, and let's say another two big bats at 1B and SS this year would have given us way better odds to be playing in the playoffs and more.

 

Yet, why of why do we have to call the whole organization out? If the so called average person sees the Brewers as "losers", then there are a lot of other teams in that camp too. I'd say 4/5 of the teams would be there too. The A's, Rays, and Twins would be there too, right? Gotta throw in all the big market teams that have not won lately and the midmarkets that are one and dones in the playoffs.

 

All this being said, and I do appreciate Stache's passion here, he does have many valid points about the direction of the organization, this year's pitfalls with the typed of hitters we have, the irresponsibility of decisons being made on field, and the bandaid approach. I'm not just sitting here saying, "Oh, well.... same ol Brewers.... Get em next year...." I'm ticked too and if heads roll I can see why!

 

Stache- Your writing style aside, I have taken this September slide just as bad, if not worse, than you. You are upset and that really is just right now to be. Yet, you have thrown this entire organization, its past, its recent successes, and what the Brewers are currently, under the a bus driven by YOU. You think by just having Brewers fans say, " We're mad as ______ and we're not going to take it anymore" that this will help? Not showing up and not supporting the team will help? Saying that we (including you because you are a die hard fan, right?) have higher standards will help? What does that mean, by the way? No playoffs in a year or two and the entire management team is fired? Every year that happens? Now before you answer, you better be thinking that exactly otherwise MY standards are higher than yours.

 

I am still very confident in Mark A. and his ability to bring championship play to Milwaukee. Even if it is not this year, I support him, am thankful for his ownership, thankful what he has done for this organization in the last decade and eagerly want and wait for more playoff baseball and a championship in Milwaukee.

[sheetskout]

The system wasn't barren in 2002. Melvin took over a team with JJ Hardy and Prince Fielder already in the minors in addition to a few good MLB players.

 

Hooray he's kept us mediocre.

 

 

Just to be clear, the system WAS barren in 2002. Fielder didn't even debut until late 2002 and was a high-schooler. We had no idea at that point what he would've turned into. J.J. Hardy was a second rounder and Baseball America consistently ranked the Brewers system toward the bottom of their rankings until that crop made the higher-minors. The system really didn't start to show its promise until way after Weeks was drafted - which was in 2003.

[The stache]

I've put together a salary comparison showing what the two World Series teams, as well as the Milwaukee Brewers, paid their players each year, going all the way back to the 2000 season. The common perception is that the Brewers cannot be perennial contenders because of the market they are in. Quite simply, we don't have the financial means necessary to build, and maintain, a team of talent comparable to the eventual World Series participants.

 

Here it is.

 

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/102/z8lCHM.png

 

What I find interesting is that in a few of these seasons, the financial gap is really not that great. In 2010, for example, San Francisco's team payroll was only $16,720,554 higher than our own. That's a substantial chunk of change, of course, but not as wide a gap as I expected to find. In 2012, we were $19,966,739 in payroll behind the San Francisco Giants, again the winners of the World Series. In 2011, the gap between the World Series winning St. Louis Cardinals, was a mere $19,936,199. As a percentage of payroll, the difference is substantial. But in terms of absolute dollars spent, the gap isn't as big as one might think. Between 2007 and 2010, three of the teams that lost the World Series, Colorado, Tampa Bay and Texas, got there spending substantially less money on their team. It is possible to get to the World Series with a smaller payroll, and it happens more often than we might have been led to believe.

 

If our Brewer team were well constructed, I can't think of any reason why we couldn't get to the World Series, and have a shot to win it. Texas spent $147.5 million (approximately) to get to the World Series in 2010 and 2011. If Nelson Cruz breaks differently, and catches a ball that is just over his head, the Rangers beat the Cardinals in 2011. Meanwhile, the Brewers spent in excess of $166 million those two seasons.

[lcbj68c]

To me, this is just another Melvin thread disguised with a dramatic title to get us to get fired up about something that isn't really true. You can argue about Melvin all day, but I'll take exception to the calling of my team a "sad franchise". I'm proud of the Milwaukee Brewers as a franchise. This franchise was turned around in 2003 and has been heading in the right direction for the past 11 years. Suddenly, the sole judge of a good franchise is the on-field playoff series record of it's general manager? The argument whether Doug Melvin is the right man to take the on-field performance from a contender to a champion can be and has been debated ad nausem. But this franchise isn't a sad one. The Milwaukee Bucks to me are a sad franchise. Take that attitude to BucksFan.net.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I am not a Sabermetric expert. What is the war value that an extra 17-20 million does for the team.

 

I too am frustrated with the Brewers. The inability to play small ball just kills me especially with a runner on third with less than 2 outs and cannot score him.

The Brewers had a great shot to go deep in the playoffs. I even had said I had to save money for World Series tickets. Most fans didn't want to trade Jimmy Nelson while I thought the Brewers needed to trade him for help right here right now. In hindsight, if they traded for Davis Price I don't think the outcome would be any different. If the Brewers could have traded for a difference maker 1st baseman such as Justin Morneau things may have finished differently. Jimmy Nelson was a #96 prospect at the start of the year at 25 years of age. He is not a 19 year old phenom. Having Nelson under control gives the Brewers mediocrity for the next few years. I was willing to trade for chance for the 2014 Brewers to be great.

[TheCrew07]

Almost everyone here, 6 years ago, wanted Jack Z as the new GM. How's he done in Seattle?

 

Speaking only for myself that was simply so the talent train would keep chugging along. We had already lost 3 crosscheckers from the scouting department, losing our SD who would likely take more scouts with him to keep Melvin around didn't seem the best possible solution to that dilemma from my point of view.

 

Z, unsurprisingly, has turned out to be basically a Melvin clone, and was exposed for over selling himself to Seattle. I think many of the GMs, even the older group, have a good basic sabermetric understanding of baseball. In fact as I've said many of the Brewer FA pitching acquisitions are the most bang for the buck sabermetric types... outside of Garza none of them had big arms or great stuff, but the ultimate results look really good on paper. Of course when you factor in age that's why the majority of those guys have flopped before their contract was up, but hey there's still hope Lohse will carry through. Not that those guys would really be difference makers in the post season, but they certainly helped win a bunch of games in the regular season, they have been productive.