The Future

[FVBrewerFan]

As agonizing this collapse has been, what bothers me even more is where do we go from here? I just have this vision of Chevy Chase in Vegas Vacation plugging one hole in the dam, and 5 others pop open.

 

This is A LOT to get addressed:

 

Need 1B

Need 2B to complement Scooter

Need new SS, or accept a defense-only SS in Segura

Possibly need 3B, certainly after next year

Braun may never be the same player again, and become an overpaid MLB average OF

Need a closer

Rebuild bullpen

Gallardo-worth having again next year?

Peralta, Nelson- Looked like they may be special, but as it turns out Peralta can best be described as "solid" and Nelson can't get through the line-up more than once or twice.

 

Sure, some of these items are to be expected almost every year- like the bullpen for example. But this season has brought about more questions than answers. Braun/Segura are problems I didn't anticipate. Rotation is looking more mediocre than it is elite. Those are things I was hoping to feel better about after this year, instead I feel worse. Please, someone convince me the sky is not falling.

[Bombers]

As agonizing this collapse has been, what bothers me even more is where do we go from here? I just have this vision of Chevy Chase in Vegas Vacation plugging one hole in the dam, and 5 others pop open.

 

This is A LOT to get addressed:

 

Need 1B

Need 2B to complement Scooter

Need new SS, or accept a defense-only SS in Segura

Possibly need 3B, certainly after next year

Braun may never be the same player again, and become an overpaid MLB average OF

Need a closer

Rebuild bullpen

Gallardo-worth having again next year?

Peralta, Nelson- Looked like they may be special, but as it turns out Peralta can best be described as "solid" and Nelson can't get through the line-up more than once or twice.

 

Sure, some of these items are to be expected almost every year- like the bullpen for example. But this season has brought about more questions than answers. Braun/Segura are problems I didn't anticipate. Rotation is looking more mediocre than it is elite. Those are things I was hoping to feel better about after this year, instead I feel worse. Please, someone convince me the sky is not falling.

 

No, No, No and No. I am sorry for being harsh but saying Scooter needs a platoon mate drives me nuts. I don't care what his major league numbers are. I am just not on the same page as a lot on this board. IMO - Scooter gets all of his AB's next year. He has EARNED it. Regardless what we do, "go for it!" (You know Doug wants to) or re-build (majority here wants to) - Scooter should start facing lefty's. We need to see what the kid can do. He has been awesome this year.

 

Here is what Doug will do this off season:

1. Re-tool bullpen. (always happens)

2. Find some washed up 1B (AGAIN) or maybe he throws money at someone like Michael Cuddyer.

3. Find some infield bench bat.

 

Doug is going for it again. His reasoning: We were great for 150 days. We just need a little more juice to put us over the bump. I just see a re-build as about a 1% probability and that probability is solely dependent on Doug being canned. So if Doug stays, re-build isn't going to happen.

[FVBrewerFan]

My list wasn't in order of importance or anything, if it was Scooter's platoon mate would be at the bottom. I wouldn't mind too much if they wanted to try playing him full time.

[Bombers]

My list wasn't in order of importance or anything, if it was Scooter's platoon mate would be at the bottom. I wouldn't mind too much if they wanted to try playing him full time.

Ya, I know. The part that is frustrating is you are probably right. Doug will view that is a top priority. and to me it just isn't. Oh well.

[superfly]

2015 free agency is really bad. I hope we don't sign anybody.

[TooLiveBrew]

No, No, No and No. I am sorry for being harsh but saying Scooter needs a platoon mate drives me nuts. I don't care what his major league numbers are. I am just not on the same page as a lot on this board. IMO - Scooter gets all of his AB's next year. He has EARNED it. Regardless what we do, "go for it!" (You know Doug wants to) or re-build (majority here wants to) - Scooter should start facing lefty's. We need to see what the kid can do. He has been awesome this year.

He's been good at the plate this year, no doubt. But he's been completely useless against LHPs, just like he was in the minors at every level above low-A ball.

 

You can certainly give Gennett more games against lefty starters than he got this season, but to say he's earned the right to face LHPs with his .260 OPS v.LH this season (& a cumulative MiLB OPS around .600 against them) is a bit much. There's nothing wrong with utilizing a player's strengths. His line of .321/.353/.494/.848 against RHP is one of the best in the league at 2B. I don't expect him to be a sub-.300 OPS bat against lefties, but when you're only around .600 in the minors, much more than that in the bigs isn't a realistic expectation. The Brewers can do a lot better than a .600 OPS against lefties from second base, & they shouldn't settle.

[Outlander]

Regarding Scooter, at this point I would give him the at bats this year to help them better make a decision on him next year. Would still be a small sample but would like to see that he can at least do better than he has done thus far in his career.

[Bombers]

But what if he is a guy who just figured it out late. See Matt Holiday

Matt Holiday - AA numbers - 1145 PA / .271 / .348 / .403 / .750

Holiday OPS'd over .800 in 2 of his 6 minor league seasons (rookie ball - 138 PA) and an injury shortened A ball year (296 PA). His other 4 full seasons never produced over an .800 OPS. If you look at his A ball through AA numbers, he was a run of the mill player. But yet in the Majors he has never finished a year with an OPS south of .800.

 

It happens. And what I am saying is Scooter has been better than advertised. All I heard was "he only hits singles", "he doesn't play good D", and "he can't hit lefties" .... Well so far the scouts are 0-2 as he hits more than singles and plays good D. So lets see if the kid can't hit lefties. If not, at least we tried it.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The least of the team needs for 2015 is a strict platoonmate for Scooter at 2B....finding a solid RH hitting utility infielder? OK, but it doesn't have to be for a strict platoon.

 

After the horrible 2014 season Segura's had, I'd entertain the possibility of bringing in another starting caliber SS who hits LH and moving Jean to the utility MIF/pinch runner role - Segura could fill in at both 2nd and SS as needed.

 

Bullpen, Rotation, and corner IF/aging veteran question marks are much bigger than who takes Scooter's AB's against LHP, IMO.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The least of the team needs for 2015 is a strict platoonmate for Scooter at 2B....finding a solid RH hitting utility infielder? OK, but it doesn't have to be for a strict platoon.

 

After the horrible 2014 season Segura's had, I'd entertain the possibility of bringing in another starting caliber SS who hits LH and moving Jean to the utility MIF/pinch runner role - Segura could fill in at both 2nd and SS as needed.

 

Bullpen, Rotation, and corner IF/aging veteran question marks are much bigger than who takes Scooter's AB's against LHP, IMO.

[dacbrewers]

I like Rogers at first base and always have. The Brewers thought they had so many players stacked at first that they moved Rogers to third...move him back to first. One position taken care of.

[3and2Fastball]

We'll find out next year if Clint Coulter can hit AA pitching. If so, he's likely our 1B in 2016

 

I'm OK with Scooter hitting LHP, or finding a occasional platoon partner for him, as others said it is a low priority right now compared to bigger problems:

 

I think the organization needs a different approach. Maybe that needs to be addressed with a new GM, or maybe Mark A is meddling too much, but this perpetual "go for it" year without ever completely going for it is maddening. Overpaying "name" free agent pitchers year after year has done more harm (Suppan/Garza) than good (Lohse)

 

I think RRR needs to be replaced. For whatever reason the team just isn't working under his leadership right now

 

Segura will come around

 

Braun isn't really all that overpaid relative to inflation. He needs to have surgery though

 

Fiers/Peralta/Nelson look solid for the future. This team needs to trade Gallardo/Lohse/Garza and rebuild

 

Mark A won't rebuild, even for a year, and thus that is really the main problem with this team. You cannot fire an owner, a leopard won't change it's spots, and really Groundhog Day is the Milwaukee Brewers franchise

[jerichoholicninja]

Last offseason I was very much against a total rebuild but seeing what happened this year and knowing the Cubs will probably be joining the Cards and Pirates at the top of the division soon - it's time. I'd like to see everyone expect Lucroy, Gennett, Davis, Fiers, Nelson, and Thornburg moved. Maybe even hold onto Segura for another season since you won't be playing for anything anyway. Doug has collected way too many free swinging, no discipline hitters to put a consistent team on the field. It's time to clean house, club house and front office.

[TooLiveBrew]

But what if he is a guy who just figured it out late. See Matt Holiday

Matt Holiday - AA numbers - 1145 PA / .271 / .348 / .403 / .750

Holiday OPS'd over .800 in 2 of his 6 minor league seasons (rookie ball - 138 PA) and an injury shortened A ball year (296 PA). His other 4 full seasons never produced over an .800 OPS. If you look at his A ball through AA numbers, he was a run of the mill player. But yet in the Majors he has never finished a year with an OPS south of .800.

 

It happens. And what I am saying is Scooter has been better than advertised. All I heard was "he only hits singles", "he doesn't play good D", and "he can't hit lefties" .... Well so far the scouts are 0-2 as he hits more than singles and plays good D. So lets see if the kid can't hit lefties. If not, at least we tried it.

The actual scout reports I saw on Gennett were that his hit tool is good, but his power wasn't special - lots of notes that he'd hit for some pop, but mostly gap power. That has proven true so far.

 

As to scout reports on his defense, I never saw anything that called him bad. Just that none of his defensive tools are strong - avg range, arm, & glove. I think you're conflating message board chatter with scout reports. As far as I can see, the scouting reports on Scooter have been pretty accurate so far.

 

I agree the club could hope that he'll blossom into a competent bat against LHP, but if I were building the roster, I wouldn't bet on it. If the plan heading into next season isn't 'go for it' mode, I would have zero problem with handing Scooter the keys at 2B.

[Point Beer Is Best]

A Bill Hall type player (strong vs LHP with decent power and above-average defensive abilities at 2B/SS/3B) would be an ideal platoon partner for Scooter. Sort of like the infield, RH version of Gerrardo Parra. I don't want another player like Weeks and go into a season with two guys that are strictly 2B on the roster.

[dlk9s]

I wouldn't worry about replacing Segura yet. He's young, has shown he has the ability to hit, from what I've read seems to understand that he lacks plate discipline, and has had a rough time off the field this year. I'd give him a chance to improve.

 

That said, if the other spots in the lineup are good enough (not necessarily Silver Sluggers in every slot, but at least not black holes), I can live with him being a weak hitter if his defense is great.

[logan82]

I wouldn't worry about replacing Segura yet. He's young, has shown he has the ability to hit, from what I've read seems to understand that he lacks plate discipline, and has had a rough time off the field this year. I'd give him a chance to improve.

 

That said, if the other spots in the lineup are good enough (not necessarily Silver Sluggers in every slot, but at least not black holes), I can live with him being a weak hitter if his defense is great.

In other words fix 1B.

[I Heart Brewers]

I wouldn't worry about replacing Segura yet.

Extend him!

[jerichoholicninja]

I see a lot of people saying they have confidence Segura will "turn it around" or "bounce back." I fail to see any proof of that. Of his 13 full months of being in the majors he has OPS'd over .700 in only 4 of them. The last month of 2012 and the first 3 of 2013. This current month's OPS is over .700 but we have a ways to go.

[FVBrewerFan]

Exactly. I also don't see any proof Braun will bounce back. "He'll get thumb surgery and be back to .900+ OPS." I'm, not convinced of that at all. I'm also not real convinced Jimmy nelson can be a top of the rotation starter they so desperately need him to be. Unless he works on his change and uses it more, he's not special. I'm all for Rogers at 1B next year, they can always move him to 3B eventually if they want Coulter at 1B.

 

Only issue with those moves is they would still only have one LH in the line-up, and that's not ideal. I think that's one (of many) problems they had this year. Would love to have another LH bat somewhere 3-5 in the line-up to force the other team into making tough decisions for once.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think I may ignore the posters who argue against Gennett facing Lefties. Ya'lls story is late, tiring and pretty poorly backed up. Keep acting like 1AB vs LOOGYs on a weekly basis means he's worthless vs. LHP. Ignore his much better numbers vs. LH SP the I dunno 2 games he's faced against them. My God, Lets Platoon the Entire 8man Position players!

[TooLiveBrew]

I think I may ignore the posters who argue against Gennett facing Lefties. Ya'lls story is late, tiring and pretty poorly backed up. Keep acting like 1AB vs LOOGYs on a weekly basis means he's worthless vs. LHP. Ignore his much better numbers vs. LH SP the I dunno 2 games he's faced against them. My God, Lets Platoon the Entire 8man Position players!

It's quite well backed up by his MiLB years. Ignore if you want to; I'm not picking on the guy, I'm just looking at things realistically. He's an absolute weapon against RHPs as far as 2B goes around the league. But so far in his professional career, he's been weak against LHPs. I hope, as much as any Brewers fan, that he can demonstrate the ability to hit LHPs.

 

Your logic doesn't hold water -- don't count one small sample, count the other small sample? For now, all I can rely on is the much larger sample that is his MiLB career.

 

Look at another sport for comparison -- there's always hope that a really poor free throw shooter can improve, and in some cases they do. But you typically don't see guys improve from being 40-50% guys to an acceptable NBA level (around 75% or so, I'd guess). Strengths & weaknesses. It's ok to me if Scooter 'only' winds up being a platoon bat, because he projects to be a dang good one... worst-case scenario here is a really good hitter for his position who is best against the handedness of SP that the team will face 2/3 of the time or more.

[3and2Fastball]

I would tend to agree that Gennett's .286 BA vs LH starting pitchers points to the possibility of him being a fulltime 2B in the future. He certainly deserves a shot.

[Baldkin]

I would tend to agree that Gennett's .286 BA vs LH starting pitchers points to the possibility of him being a fulltime 2B in the future. He certainly deserves a shot.

 

So he can only hit lefties if they are starters?

[fondybrewfan]

How many left handed hitters hit well against LOOGY's period? I mean those guys have only one job to do and that is get lefties out. It would seem unreasonable to expect Gennett to hit well against lefties. He is probably an above average talent not some superstar who can hit anyone you throw at him. I would be for giving him some starts here or there against lefties next year just to give him a shot.