Metal Detectors - Required at all games starting 2015

[Patrick425]

The detectors are really not causing any significant delays or inconveniences.

 

They just delayed the start of the home game on Saturday due to the delay that the metal detectors were causing.

 

 

Which seemed unnecessary. When we got to our seats about 10 or 15 minutes before the original game time there were just as many people in the stadium at that time that we normally see for a Saturday sell out crowd. Also they didn't delay Sunday's game and I doubt there will be any further delays due to detectors (this year or next year). I think that since it was the first sell out game using the new detectors they were being overly cautious. Our line to get in behind home plate didn't seem to move much slower than the lines did before they installed the detectors.

[Patrick425]

The detectors are really not causing any significant delays or inconveniences.

 

They just delayed the start of the home game on Saturday due to the delay that the metal detectors were causing.

 

 

Which seemed unnecessary. When we got to our seats about 10 or 15 minutes before the original game time there were just as many people in the stadium at that time that we normally see for a Saturday sell out crowd. Also they didn't delay Sunday's game and I doubt there will be any further delays due to detectors (this year or next year). I think that since it was the first sell out game using the new detectors they were being overly cautious. Our line to get in behind home plate didn't seem to move much slower than the lines did before they installed the detectors.

 

edit: Just a side note - they use to delay large crowd games in the 70's and 80's County Stadium due to traffic backups. I always wondered why they stopped doing that. I'm guessing it's because there is more TV timing issues that they have to deal with now than they did back then (when every game was not televised).

[Baldkin]

Which seemed unnecessary. When we got to our seats about 10 or 15 minutes before the original game time there were just as many people in the stadium at that time that we normally see for a Saturday sell out crowd. Also they didn't delay Sunday's game and I doubt there will be any further delays due to detectors (this year or next year). I think that since it was the first sell out game using the new detectors they were being overly cautious. Our line to get in behind home plate didn't seem to move much slower than the lines did before they installed the detectors.

 

Well, the detectors weren't there on Sunday, and won't be used again until next year now.

[Bikeage77]

So let's get to the real heart of the issue. Can metal detectors pick up on people pocketing a can of beer into the game?

[AZBrewCrew]

So let's get to the real heart of the issue. Can metal detectors pick up on people pocketing a can of beer into the game?

No one would ever dare to do that would they?!? 8-)

[AdvantageSchneider]

https://sports.vice.com/article/mlbs-metal-detector-policy-is-what-terrorists-winning-looks-like

 

"Enders(edit: the Alabama Economist) says that the main effect of tighter security at stadium entrances will likely be to drive any hypothetical attackers—and let's remember that no actual terrorists have actually attacked sports venues in America outside of that time Bruce Dern tried it—to set off bombs outside stadiums instead, which would not be a happy outcome: "You're trying to get in the door, there's 20,000 people standing around outside. I could do a lot of damage there, just as easily as I could if I brought the thing inside. Maybe even more.

 

Harvard security expert Bruce Schneier agrees, calling the new MLB directive "security theater"—probably unsurprisingly, since he's the one who first coined that term for measures that look good but do nothing to actually make people safer. ,,,"This is very much a C.Y.A. type of thing," he says. "'If something happens, we're going to be blamed.'"

 

But what does a guy from Harvard know.

[AdvantageSchneider]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/11650423/man-severely-beaten-angel-stadium-parking-lot

 

Thank god he wasn't shot or stabbed in the stadium.

[Patrick425]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/11650423/man-severely-beaten-angel-stadium-parking-lot

 

Thank god he wasn't shot or stabbed in the stadium.

 

So...If someone get's beat up in an airport parking lot or if someone sets off a bomb in an airport parking lot, then they should just do away with all the security that they currently have before you board a plane?

 

and let's remember that no actual terrorists have actually attacked sports venues in America outside of that time Bruce Dern tried it

 

So you rather be reactive than proactive? Scenario.... MLB decides not to install metal detectors. Someone brings a gun in and starts shooting up their section in the middle of the game and then everyone is confounded that MLB did not have the proper security in place. Of course it's a C.Y.A. thing and I have no problem with that. All security measures are basically C.Y.A. things.

 

You're trying to get in the door, there's 20,000 people standing around outside. I could do a lot of damage there, just as easily as I could if I brought the thing inside. Maybe even more.

 

It's not like before the security measures there were no lines. Like I said, when I went to the Saturday game towards the end of the season when they had detectors I think we may have stood in line an extra 2 or 3 minutes. For some people it took a lot longer because, for whatever reason, they decided to get in the longest line and stay there (even when there were several shorter lines that were moving quicker).

[thebruce44]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/11650423/man-severely-beaten-angel-stadium-parking-lot

 

Thank god he wasn't shot or stabbed in the stadium.

 

So...If someone get's beat up in an airport parking lot or if someone sets off a bomb in an airport parking lot, then they should just do away with all the security that they currently have before you board a plane?

 

Is this really the strawman argument you are going to make?

 

I think the argument people are making here is pretty basic and straight forward. Causing people to congregate in order to get into a safe area makes them more vulnerable in that new chokepoint. Its a simple risk vs reward. If the reward of making them safe in the secure area outweighs the additional risk they face waiting to get into the safe area its a good idea. If the reward of making them safe in the secure area does not outweigh the additional risk faced (as seems to be the case at MLB stadiums and TSA waiting areas) then the program should be evaluated at the very least.

[Patrick425]

The "strawman" argument is the far-flunged thought that there is an increased risk or danger of people waiting longer to enter the stadium. There is not an increased risk outside because of the metal detectors. People are not "trapped" and the lines are really not any worse with or without the metal detectors. I go to 20 games a year. Every time there is more than 25K or so people attending a game there are lines outside the stadium to get in (not to mention the lines at the ticket windows). Sounds like your argument is that there should never be a scenario where people have to wait for something because they are "trapped" and that's dangerous. Being trapped would be sitting in the middle of a crowded section in the stadium when someone starts to open fire. Have fun trying to escape from that situation.

 

Advantage Schneider keeps bringing up these instances where people are attacked in parking lots as a reason to not have metal detectors when entering the stadium. I don't see how the 2 are related. My point is that A) these are usually non-weapon related attacks and could happen inside or outside the stadium (with or without metal detectors) and B) Just because bad things happen in less controllable environments, doesn't mean that we should not try to take steps to control areas that are more controllable.

[monty57]

In everyday life, I feel safer knowing there are good people with concealed carry walking around, so if "some crazy guy" tries to kill a bunch of people, there is someone there to stop him. However, MLB and the Milwaukee Brewers are private companies, so they should be able to decide who enters their property. As informed individuals, we can each determine whether or not this is going to be an issue that makes us more or less likely to go to a game.

 

The lack of metal detectors never once made me (nor most of society) hesitant to go to a game. The presence of metal detectors will probably not deter me (nor most of society) from going to a game.

[thebruce44]

The "strawman" argument is the far-flunged thought that there is an increased risk or danger of people waiting longer to enter the stadium. There is not an increased risk outside because of the metal detectors. People are not "trapped" and the lines are really not any worse with or without the metal detectors. I go to 20 games a year. Every time there is more than 25K or so people attending a game there are lines outside the stadium to get in (not to mention the lines at the ticket windows). Sounds like your argument is that there should never be a scenario where people have to wait for something because they are "trapped" and that's dangerous. Being trapped would be sitting in the middle of a crowded section in the stadium when someone starts to open fire. Have fun trying to escape from that situation.

 

Advantage Schneider keeps bringing up these instances where people are attacked in parking lots as a reason to not have metal detectors when entering the stadium. I don't see how the 2 are related. My point is that A) these are usually non-weapon related attacks and could happen inside or outside the stadium (with or without metal detectors) and B) Just because bad things happen in less controllable environments, doesn't mean that we should not try to take steps to control areas that are more controllable.

 

People have been attacked when congregated in lines. They have not been attacked inside a sporing event.

 

Again, the argument goes back to risk vs reward. Yes, there were lines before the metal detectors, but those were probably somewhat related to the previous levels of security.

 

This all really goes back to the outrage the TSA has generated IMO. Its like we ate having a policical debate without having one because of board rules.

[jerichoholicninja]

[sarcasm]We need metal detectors to get into the line to go through the metal detectors. Problem, solved.[/sarcasm]

[AdvantageSchneider]

Certain areas are more controllable than others. Are you saying that just because someone can get attacked in a less controllable environment like the parking lot (you can't really put up metal detectors in a parking lot), MLB should not try to add security within a stadium? Should all public buildings allow people to enter with guns since even if they didn't allow it, someone could get shot on the sidewalk outside the building anyways?

 

Edit: In regards to Brian Stow, I don't think any metal weapons were used against him...correct? The Metal Detectors are not there as an absolute protection against any kind of violence that could happen within the stadium. They are there as an extra layer of security to help prevent someone from bringing a weapon inside. Again, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you can't control everything you don't try to control some things (the things that are easier to control) and I have no problem standing in line an extra 5 or 10 minutes to have that extra security. Btw, this could also help prevent after-game violence as anyone wishing to use a weapon in the parking lot would need to go to their car first to retrieve the weapon.

 

It's all about tradeoffs I guess. Why inconvience everyone to partially alleviate a mostly non-existent threat? Does anyone here not feel safe going to Miller Park? Do they suddenly feel safer with the metal detectors there? I just don't see how anyone can justifiy that. If someone feels they need a metal dector at Miller Park, then I would think they would not feel safe going to any of the malls or the movie theaters that don't have metal detectors. Either you need metal detectors everywhere or you don't need them just at Miller park.

 

So are you saying that they should wait until some tragic event happens in a stadium before they take extra security measures? One day there is a shooting inside a stadium and then everyone starts asking,"Why didn't they have metal detectors?" Wouldn't you rather they be proactive than reactive? The detectors are really not causing any significant delays or inconveniences.

 

Yes, I am saying exactly that, because there have been guns around for a long long time, and I don't ever remember there being a shooting at a MLB game.

[AdvantageSchneider]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/11650423/man-severely-beaten-angel-stadium-parking-lot

 

Thank god he wasn't shot or stabbed in the stadium.

 

So...If someone get's beat up in an airport parking lot or if someone sets off a bomb in an airport parking lot, then they should just do away with all the security that they currently have before you board a plane?

 

Someone already did do mass shooting in a TSA line. If those continue to occur, they will probably have to change their procedures. They wouldn't get rid of security, they would probably have more bomb sniffing dogs and more armed security guards at the choke points. Is that what you would like at Miller Park?

 

and let's remember that no actual terrorists have actually attacked sports venues in America outside of that time Bruce Dern tried it

 

So you rather be reactive than proactive? Scenario.... MLB decides not to install metal detectors. Someone brings a gun in and starts shooting up their section in the middle of the game and then everyone is confounded that MLB did not have the proper security in place. Of course it's a C.Y.A. thing and I have no problem with that. All security measures are basically C.Y.A. things.

 

No one is going to be confounded that that happened becuae it would be an isolated incident, just like movies theaters didn't install metal detectors after that nutjob shot up the movie theater in Aurora. Again, I'll take my chances at a MLB not getting shot. They are armed police officers there. There are generally not armed police officers at a movie theater, and there aren't any metal detectors at movie theaters either. Do you not go to the movies because you are scared of the lack of security there?

 

You're trying to get in the door, there's 20,000 people standing around outside. I could do a lot of damage there, just as easily as I could if I brought the thing inside. Maybe even more.

 

It's not like before the security measures there were no lines. Like I said, when I went to the Saturday game towards the end of the season when they had detectors I think we may have stood in line an extra 2 or 3 minutes. For some people it took a lot longer because, for whatever reason, they decided to get in the longest line and stay there (even when there were several shorter lines that were moving quicker).

 

One of my biggest complaints is how long it takes to get into Miller Park. So I'm not happy they are taking additional steps to make that problem worse.

[Patrick425]

One of my biggest complaints is how long it takes to get into Miller Park. So I'm not happy they are taking additional steps to make that problem worse.

 

Yes, this is abundantly clear.

[AdvantageSchneider]

One of my biggest complaints is how long it takes to get into Miller Park. So I'm not happy they are taking additional steps to make that problem worse.

 

Yes, this is abundantly clear.

 

 

Sorry, I'll stop posting and let the rest of you go back to being scared to step outside without a police escort.

[1992casey]

It's time to let this topic die a peaceful death. I don't think the occasional brushes with politics have been a problem, but it does seem that we've run out of things to say about this issue.

 

If something new about metal detectors comes up, we can start a new thread.