Metal Detectors - Required at all games starting 2015

[HiAndTight]

I can see if they are concerned about someone bringing a firearm inside the stadium, sure, but anything more than that you really need to restrict access to the stadiums surrounding areas. Tour buses, RVs, hell even ambulances never get a second look when approaching a stadium. Like i said, its all smoke and mirrors

 

 

How is it smoke and mirrors? I really don't get what the RV's and Tour Buses have to do with anything. I've worried for a long time when there was going to be a shooting or something at a game. Either by one crazy person just trying to shoot innocent people, or a over the top, unstable fan taking a shot at a player.

 

To me this made sense years ago. If you want to argue that this won't stop every type of potential danger, I don't believe anyone thought it would. But it might stop someone from getting into the game with a gun/knife or it might deter someone from even trying it.

[HiAndTight]

Donning the tinfoil hat for a moment so bear with me...but all of those airport walk thru metal detectors that were replaced by the body scanners needed to go somewhere...

 

No, I'm sure this is crony capitalism at it's finest. I'd bet anything those are new metal dectors paid for by a government grant.

 

 

There are certain phrases that it seems people are using more and more now, regardless of context.

 

"Crony capitalism." I'm not even sure how this would work in this case.

 

Can there EVER be anything that's not political? Is it just possible because of threats to players MLB finally decided, "Hey, maybe we should do this so we don't look back and say...why didn't we do this," without there being some political agenda at work?

 

Do you really think MLB is in bed with Big-Metal Detector-Business? What's the quid pro quo?

 

Some people are genetically predisposed to have a conservative mind set. Not politically per say, but just those who are very upset over any and every level of change.

 

Went to the game tonight. Here's the funny thing, I think the metal detectors actually make Miller Park less secure. Before the metal detectors the ushers would do a pretty good check of every bag that entered the stadium. With the new security process I did not see them look in my bag, or my wife's purse at all. If I was looking to cause trouble I'd put whatever I was looking to sneak in at the bottom of a bag. Tonight it would have gotten through without a problem.

 

That wasn't my experience at all. I was wearing Jeans, a button down shirt and a jacket and so like every other game, there was little for then to check, but the young lady I was with went through the same exact "search," she always did.

 

Anyway, the incident at Target Field proves there are still security loopholes

 

Yes, I'm sure there are. There is no place anywhere that has 100 pct security. Does that mean then that you don't do anything because you can't cover everything? This isn't meant to stop the evil Batman villains from infiltrating the grounds crew and smuggling in a bomb. This is meant to stop a crazy person from entering a stadium with as many as 45K people in it on national TV and killing as many people as possible.

[AZBrewCrew]

Or crazy concept...allow people with CCWs to actually carry. But thats sliding into political discussion so ill leave it at that.

[TURBO]

Great thoughts HiAndTight...I'm right there with you...

[TURBO]

Or crazy concept...allow people with CCWs to actually carry. But thats sliding into political discussion so ill leave it at that.

 

Are you suggesting that people who can legally carry be allowed to carry on the premises of professional sporting events?

 

yikes.

[AZBrewCrew]

Or crazy concept...allow people with CCWs to actually carry. But thats sliding into political discussion so ill leave it at that.

 

Are you suggesting that people who can legally carry be allowed to carry on the premises of professional sporting events?

 

yikes.

Why not? I carry pretty much everywhere when im off duty. You wouldn't't know im carrying though as i conceal. CCW permits are a big deal so the likelihood of someone getting drunk and doing something silly while carrying is low

[pitchleague]

This is starting to border on "thread lock" phase. Turn off the political-ness or the thread goes "buh-bye."

 

Thank you.

 

The Management

[RightFieldCoder]

I don't see the metal detectors helping with security. All this does it make the experience worse. If someone wanted to do something, they could also do it in the parking lot. Or they could look through the glass in the outfield. Lots of ways to do damage without going through the detectors not to mention all of the loopholes there might be.

[AdvantageSchneider]

[No, I'm sure this is crony capitalism at it's finest. I'd bet anything those are new metal dectors paid for by a government grant.

 

 

There are certain phrases that it seems people are using more and more now, regardless of context.

 

"Crony capitalism." I'm not even sure how this would work in this case.

 

Can there EVER be anything that's not political? Is it just possible because of threats to players MLB finally decided, "Hey, maybe we should do this so we don't look back and say...why didn't we do this," without there being some political agenda at work?

 

Do you really think MLB is in bed with Big-Metal Detector-Business? What's the quid pro quo?

 

Some people are genetically predisposed to have a conservative mind set. Not politically per say, but just those who are very upset over any and every level of change.

 

 

I don't think it's MLB, it the Homeland Security.

 

Again, if I wanted to get a MLB player, why would I do it at the stadium? I'd just wait in the lobby of their hotel. They aren't hard to find outside the stadium.

 

I don't have a problem with change. I have a problem with mindless changes than inconvience me without any real benefit to myself or anyone else.

[bani1717]

I don't see the metal detectors helping with security. All this does it make the experience worse. If someone wanted to do something, they could also do it in the parking lot. Or they could look through the glass in the outfield. Lots of ways to do damage without going through the detectors not to mention all of the loopholes there might be.

 

If someone wanted to perform an act of terror, they could also do something to the masses of people waiting in line to go through the metal detectors and into the stadium. I personally don't think metal detectors will do a whole lot to prevent tragic events. There are also countless ways into the stadium that are not ticketed entrances where someone could easily enter or pass off a weapon to someone who has already entered (e.g., the outside area by Friday's, doors that are exit only, etc)

 

IMO, about the most the metal detectors will actually do is prevent someone from somehow walking into the stadium with a weapon they didn't intend to use and unleashing it (if the weapon is something they carry on their body that wouldn't be discovered during a bag search but is discovered by a metal detector). Metal detectors also give the impression of beefed up security which may scare away someone who wants to do something, but you could also argue that they place a "target on the back" of MLB events (if it makes a terrorist realize that MLB events are "important" enough events to Americans to use metal detectors).

[HiAndTight]

Or crazy concept...allow people with CCWs to actually carry. But thats sliding into political discussion so ill leave it at that.

 

Are you suggesting that people who can legally carry be allowed to carry on the premises of professional sporting events?

 

yikes.

 

 

I'm staying away from my political opinion on this one.

 

I think that would deter attendance. People are uneasy with people around them openly carrying guns. That's not political, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong. They just are. Which is why many private businesses made rules when people were "exercising," their rights several months ago carrying large scary looking weapons into places like Starbucks or Chipolte.

I don't have a problem with change. I have a problem with mindless changes than inconvenience me without any real benefit to myself or anyone else.

 

That's rather bold. You've not asserted that this is "mindless," that there is corruption involved and an agenda behind this(other than the obvious agenda of safety), the metal detectors don't work or rather are poorly tuned, we're less safe now. As if these are all facts.

 

And you agreed that there must be some correlation between this and the body scanners at hospitals making the metal detectors expendable, so that's the only reason. As if this was the only way we could re-purpose metal detectors. I'm sure the metal detector business is just fine and that one(airport scanners) has little to do with the other(MLB implementing metal detectors).

[Patrick425]

Don't have a problem with the metal detectors and didn't really notice a huge difference in time to get in when we went to the game on Saturday. My bigger issue this year has been the preferred parking chaos that has happened for some of the games. I'm not sure what has changed, but I don't recall seeing these kinds of snarls in previous years.

[bani1717]

Patrick, when did you enter the stadium and at what entrance? A couple articles I read stated that the game started late due to the lines to get in. I don't recall that ever happening before. A couple pictures I saw showed some pretty long lines. Granted, once a line starts forming people seem to just get into it without considering alternatives, but still...

[Outlander]

I entered in the right field corner on Saturday and is what not that bad but if you were trying to enter behind home plate you could have been backed up all the way to Helfaer Field. They were justified in delaying the game.

[Patrick425]

Patrick, when did you enter the stadium and at what entrance? A couple articles I read stated that the game started late due to the lines to get in. I don't recall that ever happening before. A couple pictures I saw showed some pretty long lines. Granted, once a line starts forming people seem to just get into it without considering alternatives, but still...

 

Do you mean standing line or car line? The standing line wasn't that bad for us. Entered behind home plate. Outlander's comment about people lined all the way to Helfaer is because people are not all that observant or smart sometimes. We walked up the path next to Helfaer and there was a jam right at the top of the path. People walking up that path just stopped where everone else had stopped (thus forming a very long line). Well, there are two entrances right by home plate (not including the "club seats express entrance") and multiple lines for each entrance. People just seemed to "accept" that line (next to Helfaer Field) without really seeing that there were other much shorter and faster moving lines that they could go to.

 

We entered with our car off of Miller Parkway going south. We have preferred parking and that's the route we always take. I would say it took us close to a half hour to get a parking spot from the time we exited I94 to go south on Miller Parkway. Normally it's not that big of an issue, but there have been a couple of times where the backup has been very long.

[HiAndTight]

I don't see the metal detectors helping with security. All this does it make the experience worse. If someone wanted to do something, they could also do it in the parking lot. Or they could look through the glass in the outfield. Lots of ways to do damage without going through the detectors not to mention all of the loopholes there might be.

 

 

Both you and Bani1717 made a similar argument, and it's one that often pops up when talking about matters of security. Whatever we're doing is pointless because people who really want to kill people can just do it another way essentially.

 

A-Terrorists do things to terrorize people. What do you think is gong to have a bigger headline, ______ from the Milwaukee Brewers shot dead on field, or fan killed outside stadium?

 

B-They could shoot through the glass of the stadium? Yes, I suppose if you had someone who had access to a nearby building with a sight line and a sniper with a high powered weapon really wanted to......see where I'm going? Not all that likely.

 

Bottom line, yes, there are other ways to kill people than by killing them with a gun or a knife inside a stadium, and you could "pass off a gun," outside the stadium...which would require multiple people and make it less likely. I still don't see that as a valid reason to dismiss the idea of metal detectors. It's a pretty minor inconvenience, and I don't know how you can say it won't stop something in the future. It's an easy thing to say, but there is simply no way to prove or disprove what would have happened in the future had the Brewers NOT taken this action.

[bani1717]

I think that for the most part I agree with you HiAndTight. I wasn't trying to argue that metal detectors are pointless. I do however believe that metal detectors are likely to do more in the way of appearances than actual prevention (partially because there are a variety of ways around them if someone plans ahead). At the end of the day though someone who researched the issue a lot more than me made the decision to implement metal detectors.

[AdvantageSchneider]

What do metal detectors prevent? Someone getting shot or stabbed in the stadium right? Is there there more or less risk of being shot or stabbed in the stadium then there is in the parking lot? Brian Stow was beaten in the Dodgers parking lot. But we don't require searches to get into the parking lot. There is a heck of a lot more security inside the stadium then there is in the parking lots. Anyone with any reason would clearly beef up security in the parking lots before adding metal dectors to the stadium, if the concern was really about fan safety.

[Patrick425]

What do metal detectors prevent? Someone getting shot or stabbed in the stadium right? Is there there more or less risk of being shot or stabbed in the stadium then there is in the parking lot? Brian Stow was beaten in the Dodgers parking lot. But we don't require searches to get into the parking lot. There is a heck of a lot more security inside the stadium then there is in the parking lots. Anyone with any reason would clearly beef up security in the parking lots before adding metal dectors to the stadium, if the concern was really about fan safety.

 

Certain areas are more controllable than others. Are you saying that just because someone can get attacked in a less controllable environment like the parking lot (you can't really put up metal detectors in a parking lot), MLB should not try to add security within a stadium? Should all public buildings allow people to enter with guns since even if they didn't allow it, someone could get shot on the sidewalk outside the building anyways?

 

Edit: In regards to Brian Stow, I don't think any metal weapons were used against him...correct? The Metal Detectors are not there as an absolute protection against any kind of violence that could happen within the stadium. They are there as an extra layer of security to help prevent someone from bringing a weapon inside. Again, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you can't control everything you don't try to control some things (the things that are easier to control) and I have no problem standing in line an extra 5 or 10 minutes to have that extra security. Btw, this could also help prevent after-game violence as anyone wishing to use a weapon in the parking lot would need to go to their car first to retrieve the weapon.

[thebruce44]

I don't see the metal detectors helping with security. All this does it make the experience worse. If someone wanted to do something, they could also do it in the parking lot. Or they could look through the glass in the outfield. Lots of ways to do damage without going through the detectors not to mention all of the loopholes there might be.

 

 

Both you and Bani1717 made a similar argument, and it's one that often pops up when talking about matters of security. Whatever we're doing is pointless because people who really want to kill people can just do it another way essentially.

 

A-Terrorists do things to terrorize people. What do you think is gong to have a bigger headline, ______ from the Milwaukee Brewers shot dead on field, or fan killed outside stadium?

 

Or how about the headline, "50 fans killed/wounded while defensless and packed together outside stadium waiting to get in".

[AdvantageSchneider]

Certain areas are more controllable than others. Are you saying that just because someone can get attacked in a less controllable environment like the parking lot (you can't really put up metal detectors in a parking lot), MLB should not try to add security within a stadium? Should all public buildings allow people to enter with guns since even if they didn't allow it, someone could get shot on the sidewalk outside the building anyways?

 

Edit: In regards to Brian Stow, I don't think any metal weapons were used against him...correct? The Metal Detectors are not there as an absolute protection against any kind of violence that could happen within the stadium. They are there as an extra layer of security to help prevent someone from bringing a weapon inside. Again, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you can't control everything you don't try to control some things (the things that are easier to control) and I have no problem standing in line an extra 5 or 10 minutes to have that extra security. Btw, this could also help prevent after-game violence as anyone wishing to use a weapon in the parking lot would need to go to their car first to retrieve the weapon.

 

It's all about tradeoffs I guess. Why inconvience everyone to partially alleviate a mostly non-existent threat? Does anyone here not feel safe going to Miller Park? Do they suddenly feel safer with the metal detectors there? I just don't see how anyone can justifiy that. If someone feels they need a metal dector at Miller Park, then I would think they would not feel safe going to any of the malls or the movie theaters that don't have metal detectors. Either you need metal detectors everywhere or you don't need them just at Miller park.

[HiAndTight]

I don't see the metal detectors helping with security. All this does it make the experience worse. If someone wanted to do something, they could also do it in the parking lot. Or they could look through the glass in the outfield. Lots of ways to do damage without going through the detectors not to mention all of the loopholes there might be.

 

 

Both you and Bani1717 made a similar argument, and it's one that often pops up when talking about matters of security. Whatever we're doing is pointless because people who really want to kill people can just do it another way essentially.

 

A-Terrorists do things to terrorize people. What do you think is gong to have a bigger headline, ______ from the Milwaukee Brewers shot dead on field, or fan killed outside stadium?

 

Or how about the headline, "50 fans killed/wounded while defensless and packed together outside stadium waiting to get in".

 

 

Well, feel free to come up with an idea to try and speed solve the problem about people congregating around Miller Park before games. However as anyone who goes to games knows there are often hundreds of people by the ticket window/waiting to get into games before the metal detectors. So there headline is just as possible now. This is akin to saying that since kids can be abducted on their way to school, why bother locking the school down and adding security measures. Perhaps it's because one has a higher responsibility of ensuring the safety of those in certain scenario's.

 

The metal detectors have done very little to slow the process into the stadium.

 

But...again, you ignore the essential point of my post. The argument is essentially, "if you can't stop all types of violence, why try to stop any?" Not to mention what I personally think is an irrational apples to oranges comparison. Have you been to the games with the metal detectors? They're not causing hour long(er) waits to get into the game. The congestion is pretty much the same.

 

I'm also curious if someone did indeed attempt to kill 50 people outside the stadium while waiting in line, why then would they only try to kill one person inside the stadium. Finally, if you're looking for large groups of people, do you really think the entrance at a Brewers game is going to be their primary target?

 

I think that for the most part I agree with you HiAndTight. I wasn't trying to argue that metal detectors are pointless. I do however believe that metal detectors are likely to do more in the way of appearances than actual prevention (partially because there are a variety of ways around them if someone plans ahead). At the end of the day though someone who researched the issue a lot more than me made the decision to implement metal detectors.

 

Well, what they do in prevention at this point is going to be purely speculation. But my thinking is if someone wants to pull off a organized "terrorist" attack you're right, they'll find a way around it.

 

But while everyone's so worried about terrorists attacks since 9/11, the mass shootings by mentally unstable people has done far more damage INSIDE the United States. Just unhinged people who want to live in infamy. If a famous baseball player gets shot..or any baseball player that person's name is going to be synonymous with that player from there on out.

 

Also...I'm thinking with our intelligence services, it's likely easier to identify and stop these large scale attacks that have been speculated about on here as opposed to one Jared Loughner type who nobody takes seriously until they snap and do something. Count the bodies dead from people with mental illness going on a killing spree since 9/11 vs the domestic terrorist attacks?

 

 

So again, are the new safety measures going to stop some 24-type sleeper cell from carrying out an attack? No. But they may deter or stop the much more likely threat in Milwaukee, some guy with serious psychological problems from waking up one day and deciding to become famous for who he kills. And given the almost non-existent delay or inconvenience caused by them, I just don't get the blow back(or the over the top alternate scenarios about how ELSE people could be killed more effectively).

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a little embarrassed at how easily this country frightens in the post 9/11 world. Every threat is the worst threat and could end our way of life(some hyperbole there in some cases, but not in every case). We've got a new issue to be scared about each week, and I do worry that some use those fears to justify the loss of some freedoms. I'm just not seeing this being one of them. At WORST it's a very minor inconvenience that may add 5 minutes to getting into the game.

[jerichoholicninja]

They should have installed metal detectors in the home clubhouse entrance at Miller Park because the Brewer have been shooting themselves in the foot for the last few months.

[Patrick425]

Certain areas are more controllable than others. Are you saying that just because someone can get attacked in a less controllable environment like the parking lot (you can't really put up metal detectors in a parking lot), MLB should not try to add security within a stadium? Should all public buildings allow people to enter with guns since even if they didn't allow it, someone could get shot on the sidewalk outside the building anyways?

 

Edit: In regards to Brian Stow, I don't think any metal weapons were used against him...correct? The Metal Detectors are not there as an absolute protection against any kind of violence that could happen within the stadium. They are there as an extra layer of security to help prevent someone from bringing a weapon inside. Again, I don't subscribe to the theory that just because you can't control everything you don't try to control some things (the things that are easier to control) and I have no problem standing in line an extra 5 or 10 minutes to have that extra security. Btw, this could also help prevent after-game violence as anyone wishing to use a weapon in the parking lot would need to go to their car first to retrieve the weapon.

 

It's all about tradeoffs I guess. Why inconvience everyone to partially alleviate a mostly non-existent threat? Does anyone here not feel safe going to Miller Park? Do they suddenly feel safer with the metal detectors there? I just don't see how anyone can justifiy that. If someone feels they need a metal dector at Miller Park, then I would think they would not feel safe going to any of the malls or the movie theaters that don't have metal detectors. Either you need metal detectors everywhere or you don't need them just at Miller park.

 

So are you saying that they should wait until some tragic event happens in a stadium before they take extra security measures? One day there is a shooting inside a stadium and then everyone starts asking,"Why didn't they have metal detectors?" Wouldn't you rather they be proactive than reactive? The detectors are really not causing any significant delays or inconveniences.

[Baldkin]

The detectors are really not causing any significant delays or inconveniences.

 

They just delayed the start of the home game on Saturday due to the delay that the metal detectors were causing.