Question about Mark A now that the Crew failed to make playoffs (Latest 10/10: Roenicke will return, Johnny Narron and Iorg gone)

[SoupTown]

I think RRR will be back. Amazing to me that NOW the management is saying 'hey, maybe some guys don't really care about winning... just collecting a pay check'. For over a decade I have railed over Milwaukee being a retirement village for some guys just picking up their last paycheck and relaxing in the sun (or the roof) for the last year or two. I do not think there needs to be many changes at all. I don't know (and I sure you all don't know) if there were doggers in the team - and who they are.

 

But interesting about turning over the roster a little. That is just strange, as we are SET pretty much from top to bottom in 2015. I have posted the 2015 team will be the same as 2014 with the exception of closer and first base. But if you are going to turn over, I will guess this.

 

1st base... obvious; the choice is go with a YOUNG platoon or make a splash

2nd... I think Weeks maybe was an I don't Care guy... but he is gone anyway... Scooter seems to have some ticker... he stays

3rd... this is the most important 'do you care' position... if ARAM cares... he stays... if he don't care... he goes... we need to wait to see what happens

SS... given the anger shown by Mark and Doug and RRR, I think this is a place where Doug will try to get an upgrade... somebody who can bat... Jean has an AAA year

LF... obviously you keep Davis

CF... I do have the feeling GoGo is all about HimHim; here is where I predict a big trade; and that leaves Parra as the CF; Parra looks like a baseball player, actually

RF... Braun will have this nerve deadening surgery so he will obviously stay

C... Lucroy is quite a team guy, I think... he stays

 

Our rotation is fine... (Nelson is in the pen, and you have the other five... all proven now... Fiers at number five is the unproven)

There is no way you bring back KRod unless he gives quite the discount... Broxton will close in 2015; the pen, when healthy is OK

 

If Parra is the CF you are desperate for a good 4th outfielder.

 

I don't think the team was far off. They were just a little heart weak. (it may be RRR pays his job for that, but I kind of am ok with RRR - he is so boring he does not bother me and he is likely not the problem)

[superfly]

I think RRR will be back. Amazing to me that NOW the management is saying 'hey, maybe some guys don't really care about winning... just collecting a pay check'. For over a decade I have railed over Milwaukee being a retirement village for some guys just picking up their last paycheck and relaxing in the sun (or the roof) for the last year or two. I do not think there needs to be many changes at all. I don't know (and I sure you all don't know) if there were doggers in the team - and who they are.

 

But interesting about turning over the roster a little. That is just strange, as we are SET pretty much from top to bottom in 2015. I have posted the 2015 team will be the same as 2014 with the exception of closer and first base. But if you are going to turn over, I will guess this.

 

1st base... obvious; the choice is go with a YOUNG platoon or make a splash

2nd... I think Weeks maybe was an I don't Care guy... but he is gone anyway... Scooter seems to have some ticker... he stays

3rd... this is the most important 'do you care' position... if ARAM cares... he stays... if he don't care... he goes... we need to wait to see what happens

SS... given the anger shown by Mark and Doug and RRR, I think this is a place where Doug will try to get an upgrade... somebody who can bat... Jean has an AAA year

LF... obviously you keep Davis

CF... I do have the feeling GoGo is all about HimHim; here is where I predict a big trade; and that leaves Parra as the CF; Parra looks like a baseball player, actually

RF... Braun will have this nerve deadening surgery so he will obviously stay

C... Lucroy is quite a team guy, I think... he stays

 

Our rotation is fine... (Nelson is in the pen, and you have the other five... all proven now... Fiers at number five is the unproven)

There is no way you bring back KRod unless he gives quite the discount... Broxton will close in 2015; the pen, when healthy is OK

 

If Parra is the CF you are desperate for a good 4th outfielder.

 

I don't think the team was far off. They were just a little heart weak. (it may be RRR pays his job for that, but I kind of am ok with RRR - he is so boring he does not bother me and he is likely not the problem)

 

Mike Morse would be a valuable commodity to us...we'd be able to swap him between the OF and 1B, allowing us to trade Gomez. I wouldn't mind buying low on Justin Masterson either as a sort of reclamation project and see if we can get him back to his old self. We need more ground ball pitchers, his upside is a midlevel starter worst case bullpen. Not pay too much though, he's not worth it.

[brewcrewdue80]

I am thrilled to read Mark A.'s comments. I hope there are moves removing staff(Roenicke my choice to start) and/or removing Players via Trade.

 

Let's face it, Roenicke's Bullpen usage sucked. His Baserunning management sucked. His Bunting was poorly timed. His Run on contact play was overused. His playing the infield in to save runs in the early innings vs. giving up the run for the easy out sucked. His lineup choices were perplexing quite often. His lack of fire I believe rubbed off on the team down the stretch.

 

He's going to be gone. Because why is Mark A. mad about the team's meltdown? Missing the Playoffs cost him Revenue. It may have just been the revenue he needed to come out ahead for the season and share with his group. Now he has to go to them and tell them that revenue isn't coming. And that little hint of maybe taking a step back and what would sound like rebuilding? Next year's payroll could be slashed enough to make up for this year's missed profits.

Let's think about what we have all said. We aren't going to support the team going to games with this same roster next season. 2.8mil fans this year and putting out the same product will not be 2.8mil next year. Mark A. knows this and his action will be to prepare for a 2.2-2.35mil attendance next season. Payroll imo will be around 75million. Which would mean dumping around 26mil from projections. No ARam, Trade Gomez, Trade Gallardo, Trade Broxton, Trade Lohse. 3 of those 5 would about do it. Non tender Estrada, Kinztler and potentially Parra.

 

Melvin is safe. and the decisions he makes, moves/trades he does and then the effect of that on the field next season will determine if he's a goner in 2015 or stays.

 

I am just looking forward to the moves, the answers to their Review being put out there. Who's at fault for this collapse? Behind the numbers.

Cant's wait! 1.5months to the Winter Meetings!

[FVBrewerFan]

"First off, I want to find out who cares about winning and losing in the clubhouse," said Melvin, who would have to get that information from Roenicke and the coaches. "If there are guys in there that don't care about winning, then they probably won't be there.

 

That sounds good, but how do you prove that? Unless someone says "Yea, I don't care about winning." Plus, what if you believe a couple of those guys firthat mold that can't be easily moved?

 

I know Reynolds is a guy they're not happy with, and that could be the only one. Just curious how they're going to determine who else doesn't care about winning.

[monty57]

Well, there's admission that "win now" every year may not have been the best strategy, and that it has been done to maintain attendance. The "two paths" are either to continue to do what they've done for the last few seasons, or to "retool." He quickly said "not that we're ready to do that," so my guess is that they will continue to try to "win now."

 

While I'm sure Attanasio is genuinely upset, I think there was a lot of PR to this whole thing. First, they can place the blame of the collapse on a couple of sacrificial lambs who will be let go, demoted, or traded. Second, by showing the fans how angry he is, he hopes to get the fans to continue to buy tickets, because they know that management "cares." They know ticket sales will drop, so to me this just looks scripted in hopes of losing as few ticket sales as possible.

 

With that in mind, here's what I think happens:

 

1) Gomez will be traded. While I think this will be a good baseball move that will bring back some really good young talent this franchise sorely needs, after Attanasio's comments, the media and fans will place a lot of blame for the collapse on Gomez's "me first" approach. Really, even though he has "warts," he was one of the few players who had a pretty good season.

 

2) Ramirez will not be back. There will be a lot of talk about how he faded down the stretch and is too old to play 3B every day. That's probably true, and he will likely sign a two-year deal with an AL team.

 

3) Segura will be relegated to utility guy, who will back up SS and platoon with Gennett at 2B. If the team was truly worried about players "dogging it," who did they replace in the lineup? Segura, Reynolds and Davis. Davis had some injury issues, and Reynolds is gone anyway, so it seems Segura could be one of the guys they're concerned about.

 

4) They will make some "splash" moves to try to fill the holes, namely 1B, SS and 3B. The Gomez trade will fill one of these (hopefully with someone young), and it is possible they trade one of their SP, but I don't think they want to do that. There will be a "name player" signed in free agency, and I think they'll be in on names like Sandoval... Attanasio really wants to prove to "those 2.8 million fans" that they really should renew their season tickets.

 

5) We'll bring in a "Mark Kotsay" type guy to platoon with Davis in LF or be our everyday LF. I wouldn't be surprised to see Davis traded, as his arm is a big liability. Teams ran on him at will once they realized he couldn't throw anyone out, and while he can hit, his bat isn't good enough to make up for his defensive deficiencies. A move to an AL team is somewhere in his future, where he could make a good DH.

 

6) Roenicke will be fired. I don't think this will do much, but the team needs sacrificial lambs, and if it's not going to be the owner or GM, then who better than the manager?

 

7) Melvin is close to retirement anyways. I think he'll be here through next year, after which the team is going to need a major overhaul, which he'll watch from a beach somewhere enjoying his retirement. Attanasio probably retained him because of all of the changes that are needed in management throughout the entire organization. There is a good argument to be made that a new GM should fill it with his people, but Attanasio must have faith in Doug to put the right people in place before he leaves.

 

This will probably cause some season ticket holders to renew their tickets, but I don't think it will make us a winner next year. Therefore, I think our rebuild will start next July when we trade away Gallardo, Lohse, Broxton and anyone else we can sell at the 2015 trade deadline.

[IndyCrew]

I went on a police ride-a-long in high school. The one thing I learned is that when you get pulled over, and the officer gives you an ear full, it usually means you're going to be let off with a warning. If they were going to give you a ticket, they'd just give you a ticket.

 

That makes me think this is all a scare tactic to whip the staff into shape. If MA really want to fire RRR, I think it would have happened swiftly. This free fall has happened over the last five weeks, and we've been out of the playoffs for the last week. They've had time to think about these decisions.

 

On the other hand, I'm not sure they can stand pat at this point. After those comments, it is going to be hard to sell firing Narron and cutting Reynolds as a solution.

[TURBO]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

For God sake, please noooooooo. I'll take Dusty before that guy.

 

Why not try and steal Paul Molitor off the Twins? You know he's going to get a shot pretty soon at managing a team...he would be a change of pace for us too, maybe his small ball abilities would transfer into our players.

 

I think Molitor wants to coach the twins, not the Brewers. I think he will wait out that opportunity rather than to come back to Milwaukee. I still think he wants nothing to do with the Brewers organization...

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I don't see any major changes, and I don't think any major trades.

 

I really don't know what will happen with Roenicke and the staff.

 

The starting pitching will be status quo with Gallardo back.

 

The bullpen usually changes and I see K-Rod gone, maybe Duke gets a better deal elsewhere. Gorz is gone. Nelson to the pen.

 

I can see A-Ram accepting the offer as he likes to be close to home. Weeks gone. Both Reynolds and Overbay gone, but we got what out of them what was expected. The Brewers need a left handed bat . I don't see the Brewers giving Billy Butler a long term deal if he's available, and I don't see him accepting a 1 or 2 year deal anyways. I wouldn't mind Adam LaRoche on a 1 year deal if available.

[brewcrewdue80]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

For God sake, please noooooooo. I'll take Dusty before that guy.

 

Why not try and steal Paul Molitor off the Twins? You know he's going to get a shot pretty soon at managing a team...he would be a change of pace for us too, maybe his small ball abilities would transfer into our players.

 

I think Molitor wants to coach the twins, not the Brewers. I think he will wait out that opportunity rather than to come back to Milwaukee. I still think he wants nothing to do with the Brewers organization...

 

My thinking too on Molitor. I think he's destined to remain in that organization and may wind up with a higher up job than bench coach/manager when a spot opens.

 

Here's a name to ask about to replace Roenicke if fired. Pat Listach? Bnet-rs mention Counsell as a suggestion, what of Listach? This tidbit from his wiki page:

In 2008 Listach was honored as Pacific Coast League Manager of the Year by peers and league media representatives for leading the Iowa Cubs to an 83-59 record and a playoff appearance. A team that looking at the roster was led by Casey Mcgehee and Micah Hoffpauir offensively. Randy Wells and JR Mathes in Pitching. Yeah real lack of named talents. But somehow he made them a winning team. Why not take a look at him? He broke out his Rookie year in Baseball, Let's Break him in as a Rookie Manager!

[fondybrewfan]

I think RR stays but the hitting coach will be the fall guy for the epic offensive collapse. There will be some turnover in the starting lineup next year; but it is too early to figure out who will be gone and who stays. Weeks and Reynolds will be gone for sure; perhaps Overbay sticks around in the reserve role.

[Fear The Chorizo]

1 - I think RRR and staff need to go - clean house. If there was truly a "me first" clubhouse attitude by a few guys, the manager and staff allowed it to happen.

2 - 1B and SS need upgrades. We all know the 2-yr stretch of futility at 1B for the Brewers - they have to get someone over there who can hit in the middle of the lineup and produce. I think Segura's best longterm role on this team is a utility IF who can back up both 2B and SS - find a LH-hitting SS who can play everyday or at least platoon with Segura.

3 - Explore trading Gomez this offseason - he's still young enough to land a unaffordable FA deal in the near future, so the Brewers need to see if they can get impact talent in return for trading the talented but frustrating Cargo.

4 - Understand the position your organization is in. 2014 was the year for the Brewers to sell out to win the division, especially with the injuries/rough starts that the Cards and Pirates dealt with well into August. They're not going anywhere soon, and the Cubs are going to be tougher starting in 2015 also. Make bold moves with the focus on improving the talent within the organization, regardless of how close it is to contributing in the major leagues..

[torts]

twins have reportedly fired Gardenhire, so looks like Molitor may get his shot there sooner than we think

[Patrick425]

Sounds like no decision to be made this week:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/no-decision-coming-this-week-on-brewers-manager-b99361252z1-277470021.html

 

To me this is seeming more and more like Roenicke will be sticking around, but I find the whole way that the Brewers are handling this to be a little odd. A lot of candid comments from Attanasio and Melvin which I don't mind, but it's not the usual way that teams tend to approach these matters.

[TheCrew07]

Or it's just blowing smoke and misdirection... like when Braun pointed his finger at the sample collector.

 

"..players who want to win.." sounds a lot like "look at what is happening is over there!" to me.

 

The Brewers just aren't well rounded from a talent or cost standpoint. Too many of the same types of players, too top heavy from a payroll perspective, and they basically ended up being exactly the team many of us thought they'd be. I'm not sure why the collapse is any more noteworthy than their 20-7 start? There's no way that record reflected their true talent as a baseball team anymore than the 6 week collapse reflected their true talent.

 

With Melvin staying I don't see anything major happening, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see them getting away from putting attendance over talent, which I think is the downfall of most organizations in professional sports, they chase attendance when chasing talent will bring attendance with it. I could see MA and DM actually trading more players like Taylor, Arcia, and Coulter in an attempt to bring back some short duration "Name" players at the corners. At which point I'd be bitter enough to consider seppuku a viable option...

[AdvantageSchneider]

I don't know how they can keep him. They can't give him an extension. He'll be going into the last year of his contract, and everyone in the clubhouse will know he's toast is they don't make the playoffs. It would be pretty tough for him to command the team when every player would pretty much have more job security than RR would have.

 

I wonder if they are waiting to see how some thing shake out like Ramirez before they decide on the direction to go.

[reillymcshane]

In some ways I think that by NOT immediately saying RRR is coming back the team is almost forced to let him go. Doubt has been instilled by the lack of support. If RRR is retained, every move and every loss will make people and players wonder when will the axe fall.

 

Before the season ended I would have guessed that Roenicke would come back. I'm not so sure now. I think that by waiting, the team has caste a cloud over the guy.

 

Tossing out the coaching staff might be the easiest way to give the team a bit of a reboot.

[AdvantageSchneider]

But who wants to go work for a HC that is clearly in a make the playoffs or get fired state? You aren't going to get a strong staff. You either bring them all back or can them all.

 

Maybe you can get away with just one sacraficial lamb, the hitting coach, or perhaps some other coach if you have a stong internal candidate.

[EauClaireNWL]

Roenicke sticks although I do see some changes coming to the coaching staff. DM and RR are tied at the hip and on the hot seat in 2015 given both are entering what are the final years of their current deals excluding RR's 2016 option. If this team fails to make the playoffs next year, MA cleans house.

[TURBO]

It isn't like RRR isn't replaceable. What he has done the past few seasons isn't working, I view the guy as nothing more than a below average baseball guy. He really brings nothing to the table that someone else won't bring, and with someone else, we at least have the chance that the new guy will make some needed changes and right the ship. If we stay with RRR, we know what we will be getting, the same old nonsense (I refuse to go into details as it just puts me in a bad mood...)

 

It is time for change, and the fact that MA is questioning our coaching staff tells me that he knows it too.

 

Drop the hammer MA! Do it now and begin the search for our new manager and coaching staff.

[jerichoholicninja]

But who wants to go work for a HC that is clearly in a make the playoffs or get fired state? You aren't going to get a strong staff. You either bring them all back or can them all.

 

Coaches and managers have to know when they are hired they are going to be fired 3 or 4 years later unless they make the playoffs every year. That's just the way it goes.

[brewmann04]

when you fail in the real world you usually get fired.

[dlk9s]

when you fail in the real world you usually get fired.

Most jobs are not so extremely success/failure like sports. I mean, players and coaches literally win or lose at their jobs every day. Most of us do not.

[AdvantageSchneider]

But who wants to go work for a HC that is clearly in a make the playoffs or get fired state? You aren't going to get a strong staff. You either bring them all back or can them all.

 

Coaches and managers have to know when they are hired they are going to be fired 3 or 4 years later unless they make the playoffs every year. That's just the way it goes.

 

The operative phrase being 3 or 4 years. If they fire a coach whoever they hire will know going in that the Brewer will need to make the playoffs for the coaching staff to keep their jobs. That doesn't sound like a ideal scenario for a good candidate. A good candidate is going to want 3-4 years to prove their worth. A desperate candidate just wants a big league job, even if it is only for 1 year.

[monty57]

Pro sports in general is pretty fickle. If an athlete doesn't perform, he's out of a job. In the big money / high exposure world of professional sports, there is always someone waiting to take your job. I feel for the players and coaches as people, but it's part of the job and it creates an opening for another individual. The crazy part is that most people in "the real world" would trade their job in a heartbeat for the opportunity to live in this world for a while, even if they knew they could be fired more quickly than they would in their "real world" job.

[JohnBriggs12]

Pro sports in general is pretty fickle. If an athlete doesn't perform, he's out of a job. In the big money / high exposure world of professional sports, there is always someone waiting to take your job. I feel for the players and coaches as people, but it's part of the job and it creates an opening for another individual. The crazy part is that most people in "the real world" would trade their job in a heartbeat for the opportunity to live in this world for a while, even if they knew they could be fired more quickly than they would in their "real world" job.

 

That's what goes with making the big bucks. It happens in the business world too, it's just not as public. Roenicke will get paid next year whether he manages or not. I'm sure he's not losing sleep.