Question about Mark A now that the Crew failed to make playoffs (Latest 10/10: Roenicke will return, Johnny Narron and Iorg gone)

[folly412]

@Todd_Rosiak

 

"I wouldn't say we're at a crossroads, but we're at a path in the woods where we need to take one path or the other," says Attanasio.

 

I'm quoting trwi7, quoting Todd Rosiak, quoting Attanasio, whose quote is original but sounds like he is quoting Yogi Berra.

 

 

 

Thought this quote by Melvin was spot on:

 

"My biggest concern about the entire season is these losing streaks," Melvin said. "Why do we go 2-11 before the All-Star break? And we went 6-22 last May. ... In the end, we're going to be 81, 82 or 83 wins, which is probably going to be about six to seven wins away from making the playoffs."

 

Exactly right. This team went 2-11 before the All-Star break, then had a 3-16 stretch to complete their collapse. That's beyond a Melvin problem for one or two roster deficiencies. Only teams completely devoid of talent or experience can explain that type of collapse, yet this team has both. Turn the nightmare of that 5-27 into a couple traditional "rough stretches" at 12-20 and this is a playoff team. It should be the end for this staff.

[superfly]

MA seems pretty pissed. I bet RR doesn't make it back next year...seems also like we will be acquiring some new names this offseason (and disposing of a few others).

 

Doug Melvin will return as Brewers GM

 

By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel Updated: 11:39 p.m.

 

Milwaukee Brewers principal owner Mark Attanasio announced Saturday that general manager Doug Melvin would be back in 2015.

 

As for uniformed personnel — manager Ron Roenicke, the coaches and players — that is to be determined.

 

In what was hardly a surprise, Attanasio voiced his immense displeasure with the epic late-season collapse that transformed the Brewers from a first-place club to out of the playoffs in a matter of five weeks.

 

"The short answer is I haven't handled it well," said Attanasio, who addressed reporters in front of the home dugout at Miller Park before the Brewers' 2-1 victory over the Chicago Cubs. "Honestly, I haven't slept. Going into September, Doug and I were still working on everything we could to get the team to the playoffs.

 

"We (traded for) Jonathan Broxton. That was upwards of an $11 million commitment at the time, if you look at increasing the buyout with his trade option with what he's owed this year and next year. We thought we were making the playoffs at that point in time. Frankly, even into mid-September I believed in this team and thought they were going to turn it around. They just didn't.

 

"And, so, you can pick the adjectives — frustrated, disappointed, catatonic. Very disappointed. In fact, I'm disappointed in the team, disappointed in the guys. They're better than this and they didn't show it."

 

The victory over the Cubs — only the ninth in 30 games since Aug. 25 — at least salvaged a winning season for the Brewers. There were a couple of personal highlights with Jonathan Lucroy establishing a major-league record for doubles by a catcher and right-hander Wily Peralta recording a career-high 13 strikeouts.

 

Attanasio normally addresses the players in the clubhouse on the final day of the season but admitted he saw no point to doing so Sunday after watching his team fold like a picnic chair.

 

"This will be the first time I don't because I'm just too unhappy, and what's the point of another meeting to dwell on things?" he said. "I'm going to talk to some players individually. I've started that already and I'll finish that today."

 

Attanasio and his baseball operations staff must figure out why this happened and who was most responsible. Melvin escaped with his job despite the Brewers being only the fifth team in the divisional era (since 1969) to lead its division for at least 150 days and fail to make the playoffs.

 

Whether Roenicke also will have his contract honored in 2015 remains to be seen. Melvin said there was no timetable for making judgments on the manager or coaching staff.

 

"We have a process of going through that at the end of the year," he said. "This year has been a little different because of us playing the way we have here, and hoping to get in the playoffs late. Those are coming a little bit later, our interviews."

 

Though a vanishing offense was a primary culprit in the meltdown, Melvin said all areas of the club would be thoroughly assessed, including a very subjective topic — the heart of his players.

 

"First off, I want to find out who cares about winning and losing in the clubhouse," said Melvin, who would have to get that information from Roenicke and the coaches. "If there are guys in there that don't care about winning, then they probably won't be there.

 

"As far as shake-up, it could be. We might turn the roster over a little bit. We might have to do that. It's too early to say that. We haven't even finished the season. Sometimes you can't force yourself. There was a particular team that shook everybody up and now they had to shake their front office up.

 

"Our guys work hard. Maybe they put too much pressure on themselves through the streak. You have to find out that guys want to be here. Most of them want to be here, but I want to make sure that it is not too comfortable, though. We've got a nice ballpark and a great fan base, but it can't be comfortable. Losing and not going to the postseason can't be comfortable."

 

Attanasio knows quite well that a good portion of his loyal fan base is upset over the club's fall from grace, especially those who received postseason tickets just as the Brewers were being eliminated from contention. He second-guessed his reluctance to step back and retool the roster in past years but reiterated his commitment to being competitive and winning.

 

"I always said, 'We gotta win, we gotta win, we gotta win,'" said the ultracompetitive Attanasio. "And we've got 2.8 million fans here supporting the team, so we better damn well win. Maybe I should have directed that we take a step back here, which we never have. I am certainly not looking to do that now, by the way. But I do have to examine from the top, is it the right thing?

 

"I've always felt that trying to compete, trying to provide these fans, that I do believe we put them through a lot these last couple of years. By the way, this year, for me, was as tough as last year. I know last year was misery with everything that went on. This was as difficult to disappear like this at the end of the year.

 

"I think we need to give the fans a reason to come back. That means we have to identify what went wrong, we have to have a good explanation for how we're fixing it, and if we're not making any changes, we'd better have a damn good reason for why.'"

 

Asked if that meant the franchise was at a critical juncture, Attanasio said, "I wouldn't say we're quite at a crossroads, but we're at (the point) where you can take a path in the woods, and you take one direction or the other....We need to identify what's missing."

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/doug-melvin-will-return-as-brewers-gm-b99359568z1-277346501.html

[The stache]

Todd Rosiak @Todd_Rosiak · 20s

"I'm going find out about who cares about winning and losing in that clubhouse," Melvin said about a possible roster shakeup in offseason.

 

LOL

 

You might want to look in a mirror there, Dougie. Because as far as I can see, you've never won anything. 27 years as an Assistant General Manager/Head of Player Development, or General Manager, and you've won one playoff series in those 27 years. You've taken a lot of money over your more than quarter century of mediocrity, but you haven't given anybody a winner.

 

So, save your tough talk, because nobody puts any merit in your tough talk.

[3and2Fastball]

@Todd_Rosiak

 

"I wouldn't say we're at a crossroads, but we're at a path in the woods where we need to take one path or the other," says Attanasio.

 

I'm quoting trwi7, quoting Todd Rosiak, quoting Attanasio, whose quote is original but sounds like he is quoting Yogi Berra.

 

 

 

Thought this quote by Melvin was spot on:

 

"My biggest concern about the entire season is these losing streaks," Melvin said. "Why do we go 2-11 before the All-Star break? And we went 6-22 last May. ... In the end, we're going to be 81, 82 or 83 wins, which is probably going to be about six to seven wins away from making the playoffs."

 

Exactly right. This team went 2-11 before the All-Star break, then had a 3-16 stretch to complete their collapse. That's beyond a Melvin problem for one or two roster deficiencies. Only teams completely devoid of talent or experience can explain that type of collapse, yet this team has both. Turn the nightmare of that 5-27 into a couple traditional "rough stretches" at 12-20 and this is a playoff team. It should be the end for this staff.

 

Those big losing streaks happen because Doug Melvin consistently signs and trades for (and the Brewers develop) free swingers who chase every pitch, swing for the fences most of the time and don't work the count. Those types of players are streaky, and sometimes the whole lineup slumps

[The stache]

Doug Melvin has been putting the same team together for 27 years. He did it in Baltimore. He did it in Texas. He's done it in Milwaukee. Teams that can score a lot of runs by hitting the ball out of the park. But when they aren't doing that, they have no other way to win. They can't play small ball. They make too many stupid mistakes on the bases. They play poor defense. Team after team, year after year, this Brewers team keeps making the same dumb mistakes, over and over and over and over.

 

Next year, we'll hit a lot of home runs. Steal a lot of bases. And we'll win 83 games. And our hitters will strike out a lot, swinging at balls that are a foot out of the strike zone. And opposing pitchers will keep getting away with it, because there's nobody in our lineup that will make them throw strikes.

 

Meanwhile, our starting pitchers will run up their pitch counts. Hitters on other team have the discipline we do not have. They will work the count. Even if they cannot get a hit, or a walk, they will make our pitchers work for the out. And while their pitchers will get through innings throwing 12-15 pitches, sometimes less (I especially love those 6 itch innings), our starters will go out there and throw 20-25 pitches.

 

Roenicke will have his 7th inning guy get up. Then his 8th inning guy. Then his closer. Because, he's not capable of looking at the hitters coming up, and picking the best matchup from our bullpen.

 

And Doug Melvin will find some 36 year old over-the-hill first baseman, another short term solution (well, not really a solution). And he will hit .200 with 21 home runs, and strike out 150 times.

 

Next year will be 2014 all over again. Why? Because when our general manager is incapable of figuring out why we have those cold stretches where we go 3-11. We'll be treated to a couple young guys who will look great for a half season, giving us hope. They they'll crap out, and our whole team will crap out. And Mark Attanasio will be mad again, and Doug Melvin will pull his pants up, and give the "we're going to find out who wants to be here" speech.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."

[owbc]

I don't see how firing Melvin is going to change anything. Attanasio is in on all the major moves. This is the team that Attanasio built as much as Melvin. Attanasio is the one who doesn't want to rebuild.

 

When you look at the statistics, almost everyone performed as expected. There were really almost no surprises at all, positive or negative. Both the offense and pitching were right around league average. This is really just an incredibly average team.

 

I don't care which coaches they fire/keep, pitching has gotten so good in this new deadball era that even an idiot like Ned Yost can get to the playoffs. It doesn't matter which order the pitchers come in when they are all good! Bullpen management is easy now. And who cares that they swing at everything, pitchers aren't issuing walks anymore and no longer groove fastballs when they are behind in the count.

 

I do care about the stupid outs on the bases though.

 

Anyway, the real problem is drafting/development. Every team fills in the gaps with trades and free agent signings like Melvin does. He's quite good at it, one of the best in baseball. The problem is when he has like 10 holes to fill every offseason because the Brewers can't develop enough players internally to fill the roster.

[logan82]

@Todd_Rosiak

 

"I wouldn't say we're at a crossroads, but we're at a path in the woods where we need to take one path or the other," says Attanasio.

I hope they are not at a crossroads. I hope they are at a fork in the road and choose the correct path. They certainly seem lost in the woods right now.

[Lee16]

Good to see some fire from Attanasio, but for the life of me I don't understand why Melvin is safe. Ugh.

[JohnBriggs12]

Melvin's hired Yost, Macha, and Roenicke and Attanasio trusts him to hire the next guy too if Roenicke is canned?

 

Doesn't Attanasio realize Melvin's failed in this task repeatedly?

[adambr2]

Our hiring trend for managers is generally to hire the exact opposite of the previous one. So they're probably already making the Gibson jerseys.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Interesting comments from Mark A. It's probably good to show the fans he's got some fire, since selling tickets to the average fan is going to be a tougher road next year. For a team that is far more dependent on ticket sales than other teams, even making some cosmetic moves isn't crazy. Makes me think RR shouldn't renew his lease on his house. I don't know if that's the answer, but someone is going to have to fall on the sword for this one.

 

Also sounded like there is some clubhouse friction. Natural given the collapse, but a couple players must have packed it in. Could be a bigger trade brewing of a key player they aren't happy with. Maybe it's just some stiff like Reynolds. Who knows.

 

Last piece was the crossroads comment. I view it the same way. I know there are calls to rebuild by many on the site. For me, they head into next year similar to this year. With a bunch of guys in the last year of their deal and not much behind it in the upper minors this may be the last year they can legitimately try for a playoff spot. I'd probably try and fill a couple holes and try to get a couple more wins, then take a much harder look at mid-year. 2016 seems like a clear rebuilding year.

[gregmag]

I think owbc and So Cal make typically sensible points. In fact, I think the main reason DM is coming back next year is because '16 makes a little more sense as a tear-down year. Next year we'll hopefully have some prospects who succeed at AA, both pitchers and hitters. We'll have more money coming off the books. That may be a more sensible moment to bring in a new GM, when we have more pieces in place to contribute to a new direction.

 

I think the most interesting thing in Mark A's comments is his musings about a rebuild. He's a smart guy; he understands his choices. He may be ready to come around to the view that the team needs to retool toward long-term success.

[Invader3K]

Apparently, according to Tom Haudricourt, Roenicke was asked this morning if he felt the team cracked under the pressure of being in first place most of the season, and he said "Yes I do."

 

If that's true, I don't see how the whole managerial and coaching staff isn't fired.

[LouisEly]

Attanasio normally addresses the players in the clubhouse on the final day of the season but admitted he saw no point to doing so Sunday after watching his team fold like a picnic chair.

 

"This will be the first time I don't because I'm just too unhappy, and what's the point of another meeting to dwell on things?" he said. "I'm going to talk to some players individually. I've started that already and I'll finish that today."

 

Mark A. talking to some players individually - interesting. Wondering if it is to address their heart, their performance (why they swing at so many pitches outside of the zone), other players on the team and who needs to go, or to find out if RRR and the coaches are the right people to be leading them.

[TGOTJ]

I may be reading between the lines, but it sounds to me like Attanasio will need to be convinced to keep RRR. For those that get to regularly watch the team, are there any players that looked like they were dogging it? I don't recall many posts questioning the effort.

[trwi7]

Ramirez looks like he dogs it. Of course he did that when the Brewers were playing well too.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I never got the impression Ramirez was dogging it. I just think he's really really slow.

[3and2Fastball]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

[chadomac]

Ramirez never looks very engaged or interested. I think that's how he's always looked, though.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

Isn't he just the Roenicke of the AL with all his bunting and base stealing?

[3and2Fastball]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

Isn't he just the Roenicke of the AL with all his bunting and base stealing?

 

Pretty much, yes.... not saying he'd be a good hire, just predicting that he'll be hired

[trwi7]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

Isn't he just the Roenicke of the AL with all his bunting and base stealing?

 

He's Ron Roenicke with a coke habit.

[3and2Fastball]

Washington is somewhat like a Mark Kotsay of managers. He's an experienced gritty veteran and has led teams to multiple World Series appearances. Doug n' Mark'll like that!

[davego]

Bring back Dale. Why not? It's more about the staff anyway.

[superfly]

I'm thinking Ron Washington will be the next manager of the Milwaukee Brewers

 

For God sake, please noooooooo. I'll take Dusty before that guy.

 

Why not try and steal Paul Molitor off the Twins? You know he's going to get a shot pretty soon at managing a team...he would be a change of pace for us too, maybe his small ball abilities would transfer into our players.