Question about Mark A now that the Crew failed to make playoffs (Latest 10/10: Roenicke will return, Johnny Narron and Iorg gone)

[reillymcshane]

I'm kind of surprised but kind of not. I was starting to get the feeling the slow development of the announcement meant he'd be back. I guess I'm just surprised because I was sure Attanasio would want bigger changes.

 

The offseason hasn't begun. I'm sure there will be player moves made after the World Series is over and the 2014 season is in the books. I'm with Danzig that I wasn't too worried about what happened with the manager/coaches. I'm far more interested in player personnel moves.

It's status quo. We'll bring back A-Ram, add a bat (LaRoche is my guess), maybe a bullpen arm. They'll keep all the starters, including bringing back Yo. Then they'll bank on Braun and Segura rebounding, people staying healthy, A-Ram eeking out another season before he get medicare, etc.

[miggs721]

I see Sedar moving to first, and hiring a new 3B coach. Also, any ideas on a hitting coach from anyone???

[Lee16]

Wow, this season isn't even completely over and already the Brewers have found a way to damper my enthusiasm for next season. /sigh

[The stache]

Wow, this season isn't even completely over and already the Brewers have found a way to damper my enthusiasm for next season. /sigh

 

This.

 

You know, I don't even care enough to type out a long response. Everybody knew this was going to be the result. Mark A. said he was losing sleep at night, wondering why we had these long losing streaks...But he is going to "find out who wants to be on this team! Who cares about winning and losing in the clubhouse!"

 

LOL.

 

After what was no doubt an exhaustive review of the organization from top to bottom, the hitting coach and the first base coach got fired.

 

There's no stopping us now!

 

What a joke. Make sure to keep the parking spot next to the owner's open. We have to make sure Doug Melvin and Ron Roenicke have a spot close to Miller Park where they can park their little clown car.

[dlk9s]

I'm glad they fired Iorg. HE WAS THE CAUSE OF THE DOWNFALL.

[TURBO]

This is just...............deflating.

[DuWayne Steurer]

How did Ed Sedar keep his job?

 

http://zizzo.com/zizzo/images/windmill.gif

[brewmann04]

he is a good guy for the media. I would love to see who is the next hitting coach and will it matter with these type of hiiters. Next year will be the final year for RR and m with a playoff run.

[brewmann04]

RR seems to alreay submitted a list of Hitting coaches to the FO

[danzig6767]

I see Sedar moving to first, and hiring a new 3B coach. Also, any ideas on a hitting coach from anyone???

Is there any serious evidence that hitting coaches really have much impact beyond maybe helping a single hitter or two a little bit at most?

 

The only Brewers hitter in fairly recent memory i can recall being noticeably helped by a hitting coach was Sveum telling/allowing Gomez to swing for the fences all of the time instead of trying to be a singles hitter to use his speed more often.

 

I'm fine with dumping Narron, but i'm very skeptical that any new hitting coach who gets hired will be able to change how guys currently on the roster approach their at bats. Usually that approach is already strongly ingrained in most hitters by the time they reach the majors.

[brewmann04]

i agree no Coach will do well with these the current roster of Hitters that DM has put together.

[jerichoholicninja]

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-10-12/

 

Today's Dilbert sums up how the Brewer's front office works sometimes, especially the fourth and fifth panels.

[Invader3K]

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-10-12/

 

Today's Dilbert sums up how the Brewer's front office works sometimes, especially the fourth and fifth panels.

 

Haha...yeah, I do think that kind of fits how things seem to be going currently with the Brewers front office.

[folly412]

Can one brother but not the other, can one base coach but not the caricature. I suppose it was foolish to expect more.

[3and2Fastball]

It is pretty disappointing but what is done is done. Clearly Mark A & Doug think they can field a winner in 2015. It'll be interesting to see what moves they make with the roster this winter.

 

I'll keep rooting for the Brewers, of course

[paul253]

Clearly Mark A & Doug think they can field a winner in 2015.

That's what I'm afraid of.

[fondybrewfan]

You are afraid that the owner and GM feel and want to compete in 2015? The alternative being the trade everyone and we suck for 4-5 years like the Cubs/Astros? I like the strategy of trying to fill in a piece or two every year and hope for the best instead of tanking and hoping top picks and prospects actually amount to something. If the team didn't have a lot of talented players that's one thing; but they certainly do have a good core group.

[trwi7]

If the team didn't have a lot of talented players that's one thing; but they certainly do have a good core group.

 

The problem is two other teams in the division have better cores, the Reds might as well if they go for it next year and Votto is healthy and the Cubs have the best farm system in baseball and the money to spend on whatever they need to when they decide the time is right leaving us where exactly? 4th or 5th place.

[Invader3K]

If the team didn't have a lot of talented players that's one thing; but they certainly do have a good core group.

 

The problem is two other teams in the division have better cores, the Reds might as well if they go for it next year and Votto is healthy and the Cubs have the best farm system in baseball and the money to spend on whatever they need to when they decide the time is right leaving us where exactly? 4th or 5th place.

That's my biggest concern at this point. Things could get really painful for this franchise quickly if they are struggling to reach third place next season.

[paul253]

You are afraid that the owner and GM feel and want to compete in 2015?

 

I'm afraid they feel as though they are a first basemen away from being a championship caliber team. Or another aging starting pitcher. Or a couple of relievers. Of course they want to compete. Everyone wants to compete. But you need to be realistic about your chances and spend your resources wisely. If we do something stupid, like giving up the 17th pick to sign a free agent, which would result in them losing their first round pick for the second time in three years, I'll be very upset. Baseball more than any sport requires you to build up your farm system which as much talent as possible because so much of it flames out ahead of time. For years their farm system has been well below average. It's produced a couple of decent pitchers in Peralta and Nelson and a couple of decent hitters in Davis and Gennett but not the elite talent you need to compete on a yearly basis.

 

We as fans shouldn't be satisfied with a chance at making the playoffs anymore. We need to set our sights higher. And right now I see nothing about the immediate future of this franchise that gets me excited. So many of our key players are on the down side of their career (Gallardo, Lohse, Ramirez, KRod, Garza, Braun) yet for some reason we still seem to be building the franchise around them as opposed to building it around guys younger guys like Peralta, Nelson, Thornburg, Lucroy and Davis. I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of money that they'll either trade for or sign an overpriced veteran first basemen instead of letting guys like Matt Clark or Jason Rogers compete for the job. Not that Rogers or Clark are elite talent but they've been productive in the minors and should be given a chance because if they can produce at the majors we can spend that money elsewhere.

The alternative being the trade everyone and we suck for 4-5 years like the Cubs/Astros?

 

Why is that the alternative? Why would trading Lohse and/or Gomez mean we suck for 5 years? I'm sorry but nobody on the team except maybe Lucroy is good enough that trading them creates an unfillable hole. And nobody has ever suggested we trade Lucroy. If we move Lohse and Gomez we can probably get at least three very solid prospects in return. We have at least adequate replacements in Nelson and Parra so we shouldn't fall off too much in the short term and the idea is the guys you get in the trade would improve you in the long term.

[fondybrewfan]

Gomez would seem like an unfillable hole to me; at least for next year. As for Lohse I don't think you could get good value for him in any trade. He has been great to us for any other team he is just an old guy with only one year left on his deal. You might as well keep him.

 

And personally I don't think you make the decision to "sell off" or whatever you want to call it based upon the talent within your division. You do it based upon the talent of your own team. So many things can happen with other teams that are completely out of your control that it would be foolish to sell just because the Pirates, Cardinals, Cubs, etc would appear to have a better core group of players. Injuries happen, trades happen, underperformance happens.

 

I think this argument is probably a mute point though; because everyone and their mom knows the Brewers plan on competing next year and MA and DM will make moves this offseason to do that. It happens every year. The only time DM or MA will be willing to trade off guys is like 2013 when it was a bad year at the trade deadline.

[torts]

how about we wait and see what the other teams in the central do this offseason before we start suggesting the brewers are finished next year before they start this years world series. The only team we can count on being back is the Cardinals, and only because its the Cardinals. The Pirates will be a different team next year, the Reds will be a question mark with players aging and returning from injuries, the Cubs are all young players, who knows how they'll bounce back for a full MLB season... the Brewers are in a good spot for next season in my opinion.

[paul253]

how about we wait and see what the other teams in the central do this offseason before we start suggesting the brewers are finished next year before they start this years world series.

 

Why should what other teams do determine how we build our roster? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but that's probably the worst strategy you can employ. You don't look at what the Red or Pirates do to determine whether to give Jason Rogers a shot at 1B or obtain a veteran, for instance. You make that determination based on what you feel is best for your organization.

 

I think Mark A. has fallen into the same "if we can only make the playoffs" attitude that the Bucks fell into the past few years. Most Brewer fans don't want a team that hovers around playoff contention and then finishes in third or fourth place each year. We want a team like the 2011 team but we want it every year. I realize that's a lot to ask for but that's what you need to set your bar at. Not this "let's overpay a bunch of veterans and move all of our minor league talent so we can maybe make the playoffs this year" bar that we've got going now. I think the best thing Milwaukee could do right now is to employ a 3 year strategy. As in how can we win the World Series in three years? By doing that you avoid this over-reliance on free agency that we have now and instead focus on developing what you have. Obviously you can supplement your roster with key free agents but you build the foundation of your team with young talent. This will help the team win consistently rather that patching together a team every off-season that you hope can compete for the playoffs.

[TGOTJ]

I really think that 2015 is Melvin's swan song. I think that's one reason that RRR is still around. Attanasio might be looking ahead (maybe even knows) and would like a new GM to be able to choose his own manager. The fly in the ointment is the untimely passing of Bruce Seid - if a new GM wants all of his people in critical positions, Seid's replacement might just be a place holder.

[MNBrew]

how about we wait and see what the other teams in the central do this offseason before we start suggesting the brewers are finished next year before they start this years world series.

 

Why should what other teams do determine how we build our roster? I don't mean to sound like a jerk but that's probably the worst strategy you can employ. You don't look at what the Red or Pirates do to determine whether to give Jason Rogers a shot at 1B or obtain a veteran, for instance. You make that determination based on what you feel is best for your organization.

 

I think Mark A. has fallen into the same "if we can only make the playoffs" attitude that the Bucks fell into the past few years. Most Brewer fans don't want a team that hovers around playoff contention and then finishes in third or fourth place each year. We want a team like the 2011 team but we want it every year. I realize that's a lot to ask for but that's what you need to set your bar at. Not this "let's overpay a bunch of veterans and move all of our minor league talent so we can maybe make the playoffs this year" bar that we've got going now. I think the best thing Milwaukee could do right now is to employ a 3 year strategy. As in how can we win the World Series in three years? By doing that you avoid this over-reliance on free agency that we have now and instead focus on developing what you have. Obviously you can supplement your roster with key free agents but you build the foundation of your team with young talent. This will help the team win consistently rather that patching together a team every off-season that you hope can compete for the playoffs.

Torts wasn't saying to wait to see what others do before the Brewers decide what they should do.

 

Re-read what you quoted from his post: In essence, "Why decide that the Brewers are goners in 2015 before the 2014 World Series is over and other teams make their offseason moves?" And it's a very valid point:

 

• Theoretically, the Brewers weren't supposed to be playoff contenders. But until they imploded -- after spending 150 days in 1st place (you can't dismiss that, regardless of how it happened) -- the Brewers had the division lead and a playoff spot all but in hand.

• The Cardinals weren't playing like anything great until August.... Of course, then they started playing like the Cardinals.

• The Pirates started playing great in mid-August, too, but only made the playoffs because the Brewers totally crapped the bed.

• The Reds were supposed to be one of the division's best teams but were worse than the Brewers by a good bit and weren't a factor in the 2nd half at all.

• The Cubs are still full of large promise, but until those guys start performing well enough in the bigs to make a difference in the standings, potential is only just that.

 

Instead you went on again about your anticipation of the Brewers' approach to roster construction. And while it's a oft-stated concern on BF.net, it wasn't his point. The naysayers re: Melvin's approach might prove to be quite right. But until it happens, it's still merely conjecture based on personal biases.