College Basketball Thread 2014-15

[stoutdude04]

I am assuming the refs didn't get all of the angles that were shown to the fans. I agree, it's hard to fathom how anyone who saw the replay doesn't think it went off of Winslow. Duke deserved to win because they played better and the Badgers seemed to get away from what they had done all year the final 5-10 minutes. However, it would have been nice to be down 5 with 1:51 left as opposed to 8 with 1:30ish left.

[fondybrewfan]

That block on Dukan where Winslow bowled into him was the far worse officiating call in my opinion. There is no way that one wasn't a charge. It was almost as if the officials were determined to call more fouls on UW in the 2nd half after Coach K was complaining the whole first half.

 

I am not blaming the officials though; Duke executed far better down the stretch. UW missed some early free throws that turned out to be pretty important and Dekker went 0-6 from 3, Gasser never even scored, and Koenig struggled pretty bad late. Kaminsky went out on a high note though; he played great.

[bjkrautk]

I do wonder if Gasser's getting poked in the eye, and Dekker taking a shot to the head negatively affected their performances tonight.

 

Beyond that, it's hard to feel the game is being played on a level playing field when the team that only fouls twice in the first 20 minutes of the game racks up 10 fouls in the next ~ 10 minutes of play. Even if you're of the mindset that they got away with something....the lack of consistency in the calls is a problem.

 

 

I can't put it all on the refs, though. This Badgers team was in a position to win, and because of the quality defense (and the fatigue from all the high-stress minutes the starters have racked up all season), they just couldn't get their offensive sets going when it mattered most. When the other team is bringing "unheralded" All-American's in off the bench....it's hard to keep up. Nothing to hang your head about.

 

(At least they beat Kentucky....which will be the one thing people remember about this Tournament going forward.)

[I Heart Brewers]

I think it was that they just didn't have the energy you need after a huge win against Kentucky. They have had a monster run. At some point you have a let down. Duke never really had to have that so their energy surpassed the Badgers.

 

That and Allen killed the Badgers.

[FVBrewerFan]

I really hate blaming a game on the refs. The Badgers offense was stagnant, and that cost them more than anything.

 

With that said, it wasn't the two blown OOB calls that bother me about the officiating. The first one was tough to see real-time, I can give them the benefit of the doubt. The 2nd one was reviewed, and I'm guessing they didn't have the extreme zoom-in that made it a no-doubter. (Which leads me to another rant about how instant replay in sports is useless.) Why do I have a better view of the play sitting on my couch than the refs who need to get the call right?

 

Biggest effect refs had on the game is how they called it in general. A ton of hand-checking and "bodying up" on the perimeter was not called. You could argue it works both ways, but that benefited Duke way more than UW- just due to style of play. I even saw Jones get warned a couple times, kept doing the same thing and a foul was never called. Those are fouls called all season long, but since it's the Champ game, suddenly they let it go.

 

Grayson Allen's drives fall into this category too. He led with his off arm, and pushed off when he went up for layups. Look at the semi-final game last year vs AZ- that was called against the AZ guard down the stretch.

 

All of that adds up, and basically changes the game from what the players were used to all year. I think that's what Bo was referring to in his PC, although in the heat of the moment he probably should have steered clear of that, and the "rent-a-player" reference.

[craigharmann]

I really hate blaming a game on the refs. The Badgers offense was stagnant, and that cost them more than anything.

 

 

Yes, I was listening to the game on the way back from the Astros game, and once I got home to watch, they all looked gassed the last 3 minutes. Gasser trying to go one on one was bad and you could just tell from body language that there wasn't much energy left. They played tough, and made a great run and I'm proud of them.

[Jenkins5]

Looking ahead to next year: Hayes and Koenig are two guys who will be huge next season with Frank, Gasser, Jackson, and Gasser gone and if Dekker leaves as well. Really believe it or not, I think we will still be in very good shape. You can not replace Frank or Sam very easy, however, in Ryan's system and next man up, they can off-set those numbers and still be very good.

 

C. Vitto Brown

Big shoes to fill but he is a long, good mid range jump shoot, can rebound and block shots. Issue is his feet and getting in foul trouble.

 

PF Ethan Happ

- From what I have heard and read, he is the guy who will step up and play a huge role next year. He is said to be arguably the hardest worker on the team and if not for deciding to redshirt this year, he could have had a big role with team off the bench. I could see him kind of stepping up and filling that Hayes role. I see him a possibly a Jon Leuer type in developing.

 

SF Nigel Hayes

Now that he can shoot the 3. He has the inside out ability to move down to the 3 spot. Hayes in my eyes has always been the x-factor the last 2 seasons for the Badgers. If they could get him going, everything else would just open up. He is a guy who will thrive in the leader/star role.

 

SG Zac Showalter

Essentially he is your more explosive/ not as good shooting Gasser. Defensive ace that will bring energy to the floor. This will be a pretty good battle for the starting job with Jordan Hill who according to Bo sometimes looks like the best player on the court in practice but has been inconsistent and buried.

 

PG Bronson Koenig

Koenig like Hayes is ready for the lime light. With him being counted on to score more should be no issue. I can't think of a Badger PG outside of Devin Harris who offers this much pure scoring and passing ability as Bronson. His stock will rise maybe the highest next season.

 

The others

 

PG/SG Jordan Hill

As noted above, he seems to be a guy with Happ who will be next years unknowns to really rise. Whether it is off the bench or starting, he will be a big contributor. Think Koenig prior to Jackson's injury.

 

SG Brevin Pritzel

 

Think Ben Brust. Kid can flat out shot the ball. As a freshman he could find himself a role with the team off the bench.

 

C/PF Alex Illikainen

Freshman is said to be the most college ready for next year and with littler amount of depth at C/PF he could find himself as a top big off the bench (depending if Hayes stays at PF or slides down to SF). I heard to think Mike Wilkerson type of game when thinking of him.

 

SF-SG Riley Dearring

Another inexperienced guy who hasn't played much but could have a role increase. Will compete for a wing job.

 

SF/SG Kahlil Iverson

He is my favorite player in class and the one I think will have biggest impact in future if not next season. He is a slasher at 6'5 who does everything, scores, rebounds, passes, steals, and is all over court. He is a high-flyer who has an inconsistent jump shoot right now. He is compared to Alando Tucker and that excites me.

 

PF Charles Thomas

Undersize PF at 6'7 who is a big body and said to be a "junkyard dog" type. I could see him sitting and developing. Not as polished.

 

 

Overall, we will be inexperienced and not as deep but this is still a team that will compete in the Big 10 and should be a Sweet 16 type of 4/5 seed team

[brewcrewdue80]

I do wonder if Gasser's getting poked in the eye, and Dekker taking a shot to the head negatively affected their performances tonight.

 

Beyond that, it's hard to feel the game is being played on a level playing field when the team that only fouls twice in the first 20 minutes of the game racks up 10 fouls in the next ~ 10 minutes of play. Even if you're of the mindset that they got away with something....the lack of consistency in the calls is a problem.

 

 

I can't put it all on the refs, though. This Badgers team was in a position to win, and because of the quality defense (and the fatigue from all the high-stress minutes the starters have racked up all season), they just couldn't get their offensive sets going when it mattered most. When the other team is bringing "unheralded" All-American's in off the bench....it's hard to keep up. Nothing to hang your head about.

 

(At least they beat Kentucky....which will be the one thing people remember about this Tournament going forward.)

 

Don't forget Koenig who was questionable about his offense late, took that offensive headbutt to the face for the And 1 3pt play for Duke instead.

 

Think about it. Dekker after that shot to the neck/head by the Duke player on a rebound effort... how much time was left in the game? 8 min.? Right about the amount of time that Dekker disappeared from having the ball passed his way and allowed to dribble/penetrate for a shot.

 

Gasser's eye early...He's mostly a defensive player who hits a few big 3s during the game...0-1 FG, his only FG was a missed layup.

 

Koenig. His offensive foul non-call was what Bo Ryan was chirping about, how when a player jumps in to you to initiate contact, in practice they call the offensive player every time for a foul. It was 51-47 Badgers when that play happened. 10min. left. After the 3pt play its 51-50. Koenig was removed from the court for a little bit of time.

 

Think about that sequence. Duke would have been charged their 4th foul. Kaminsky the 2nd possession after that play makes an And 1 which would have been Kentuckys 5th foul. and the score would instead be 54-47 vs 54-50.

 

Duke would have received their 6th team foul with 6:41 secs and the game tied (vs 54-51) putting WI in the 1 and 1 from that point on.

Duke last foul of the game which would have been their team's 7th came with 21 secs unbelievably ahead 68-63 (not 65-63 with the offensive foul) where WI gets a 1 and 1 to make it potentially a tie game.

 

Koenig after that shot returned to the game and proceeded to airball a layup. Jumping head first in to Koenig's face to create contact and the refs making the wrong call created this entire wrong sequence of events.

 

I truly believe the shots to the head taken by the Badgers players affected their play. And the worse part of it, it they took all those head shots and not 1 foul was called on Duke for dishing them out.

[DHonks]

fondybrewfan, I still have not seen an angle where the Duke player clearly touches the ball. There are no angles broadcast during the game that show clear, irrefutable contact. Having said that, there is one angle where you see the Duke player reach for the ball, initially miss it with all his fingers, and then his middle flinger (the entire finger, not the tip) bends backwards a microscopic amount as it goes past. But the ball does not change trajectory or rotation. If we have to use our imaginations to fill in the gaps, then that is not irrefutable evidence. I also contend the Badger committed two fouls when he was flailing his arms out of control and hit the Duke player in the head. Really, this was a VERY close call and could have gone either way.

 

I've heard a lot of references on the internet about the Duke guard stepping out. In real time I sure thought he looked like he was flirting with the boundary. But if the announcers calling the game didn't make a big deal out of it, then why should armchair referees?

[young guns]

So the refs never saw the angle that showed the ball go off of Winslow's fingers. The head of officiating sees that replay after the refs have left the table, but decides to let it go. I think it's absurd that they never saw the replay in the first place -- what is up with that? On one hand I see why he didn't go down and have them look at it, but on the other I don't know how you sit there and say oh wow they got it wrong, I'll do nothing.

 

I'm not trying to say the refs cost us the game because of that call, because we didn't play well down the stretch. But they made so many bad calls and missed calls, going both ways, that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth... and who knows how we could have played down the stretch if we didn't feel like the refs were against us (not sure if that's how the players felt, but that's how I felt so I can imagine that's how they would feel).

 

That link I posted clearly shows it. The only way his finger bends like that is if the ball is impacting it. His middle finger is the only one that moves. Try moving just your middle finger like that, you cant do it unless you use something else to do it.

[MrTPlush]

I'm not sure how any Wisconsin fan can complain about refs after the majority of people think Wisconsin was seriously aided in the Kentucky game. Stop complaining about a bad call when they were given generous calls going their way multiple times during the tourney.

[AZBrewCrew]

We just ran out of gas against a NBA Farm team. It happens.

[stoutdude04]

I'm not sure how any Wisconsin fan can complain about refs after the majority of people think Wisconsin was seriously aided in the Kentucky game. Stop complaining about a bad call when they were given generous calls going their way multiple times during the tourney.

 

Disagree here. I felt Kentucky had a lot of foul calls go their way. With that being said, the shot clock violation was missed...but that wasnt reviewed. I'm upset with the review not being over turned. There were a few and 1s called against them in the Duke game that could have gone the other way as well.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm not sure how any Wisconsin fan can complain about refs after the majority of people think Wisconsin was seriously aided in the Kentucky game. Stop complaining about a bad call when they were given generous calls going their way multiple times during the tourney.

 

Multiple times? What other times? As far as the Kentucky game goes, there were questionable calls both ways. But 3 big ones. The Hayes timeclock shot, no question.

 

How about a clear shot to Gasser's face when the ball isn't close to him? That is always, always, always called a flagrant 1- even if it isn't deemed intentional. The other one that went for KY was a Koenig 3 pointer wiped away by a "charge" call on Gasser- a call all the "experts" I heard said was a ridiculous call.

 

So, if anything, the calls went in Kentucky's favor that game.

[stoutdude04]

I agree with you FV. It surely 'seemed' like calls went against us in both games(the missed shot clock call of course was a big play, but so was the 3 that got wiped out when the guy slid beneath Gasser). Although, I typically look through red colored glasses so my opinion may be skewed.

 

It's weird to hear the one stand by judge say he saw the replay but wasn't sure if he should call the refs back over because he didn't want to change the game...well, by not calling them over it could very well have changed the outcome. It's over. I do believe Duke played better given how the game played out, but this is a tough pill to swallow knowing we most likely wont have a realistic shot at a title for many years to come.

[homer]

I'm not sure how any Wisconsin fan can complain about refs after the majority of people think Wisconsin was seriously aided in the Kentucky game. Stop complaining about a bad call when they were given generous calls going their way multiple times during the tourney.

 

 

I would say the crappy calls sort of evened out in the UK game.

[tmwiese55]

I'm generally one who's good at being unbiased and not to nitpick refs as I know it's not an easy job. My summary was in the UK game we got more of the breaks in the first half. They got them down the stretch, other than the shotclock miss on Hayes. The bs charge on Gasser to take away a 3, punch to gassers face, block/charge against Frank that came right after Dekker took the charge so the refs didn't want to call two in a row but it was clearly a charge, and I want to say there was one more bad call on us late maybe a charge called on Nigel.

 

For Duke, I rewatched it last night to see how bad the refs were since I was at the game and tough to tell. I've read other boards saying how it's balanced by how Okafor and Winslow were in foul trouble, well they deserved to be in foul trouble. All of Okafors fouls were legit and he actually got away with a few bumps early out on the frontcourt that could've been called (but didn't have to be). Winslow could've been called for several charges throughout the game to make his worse, but all his were legit too. One really bad late was blatant charge where he elbowed Duje in the face, instead its a fould on us and 2 pts for them when it should've been his 4th.

 

Overall, I really didn't see much to complain about from either side until we got that 9 pt lead and they basically gave them 6 free pts on questionable calls right after that. Some And 1s for Allen that didn't need to be called, one which he was literally not touched. Then throw on the extra points by missing the Winslow out of bounds and the botched replay and it's a whole different game. I understand stuff happens though and you can't get every call right but if just 2 or 3 of these 6 or 7 questionable calls goes the other way it's whole different game.

 

I know others have complained of their hand checking and holding while on D and I do see the argument but I don't think it warrants much complaining. In a championship game this type of things is common due to refs not wanting to call a foul every time. However, this is part of why it was surprising to see them call such questionable ones on UW.

[DatHoser]

In the "less than surprising" news of the day, Sam Dekker elected to enter the NBA draft.

 

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/wisconsin-badgers-sam-dekker-nba-draft-going-pro-frank-kaminsky-041015

[bjkrautk]

Good for Sam; he had a bad game in the championship, but the run in the tournament made him a few million dollars. Awfully hard to tell a guy like that to stick around.

 

It's going to be a reloading year for Wisconsin without him, but that's how Bo's program has always worked.

[fondybrewfan]

Pretty cool a kid from Sheboygan is going to the NBA. He is making the right decision.

 

Bo will still have a preseason 1st team all B10 player in Hayes and probably a preseason 2nd team B10 player in Koenig; but after that there will be a lot of playing time for freshman, redshirt freshman, along with Showalter and Brown. Next year should be interesting but you just have to expect a good UW team. Bo will have them ready.

[tmwiese55]

Obviously next year will be a somewhat 'rebuilding' year. But considering we have two really good players back I'd still expect top 4 in the B1G and losing in the round of 32 or sweet 16. Assuming a couple fresh get some minutes along with Happ, as long as Bronson and Nigel stay for their senior years they could make a run again that year. Those two will be two of the best players in the country at that point.

 

Also, it wouldn't be crazy to make a run when the next class of freshman are seniors since it's a strong group and doubtful any go pro. They just need to nail a big and a PG in the next class to pair with them and they could really have something that year.

[fondybrewfan]

One thing to consider is that the Big Ten is going to be loaded next year. Michigan St and Maryland are both going to be fantastic and Indiana should be really good as well. UW could certainly finish Top #4 next year and probably will; but it is going to be a pretty tough road.

 

Spring signing day is later this week; should be interesting to see if any last minute recruiting efforts can get another big man in or if they are just going with the 4 man recruiting class is-is (Pritzl, Thomas, Illikainen, and Iverson). I don't know if there are any highly recruited big men that Bo is involved with; more than likely he might take on a project type kid.

 

Next year's team will have no seniors that will contribute; kind of crazy to think about for a Badgers team.

[GAME05]

I wonder how many more years Bo will want to coach.

[LouisEly]

So Noskowiak ends up at Iowa State. Noskowiak, McKay, Burton, Matt Thomas... "The Mayor" is starting to tick me off.

 

But Marquette gets UNC-Ashville transfer PG Andrew Rowsey, who has averaged 19.7 ppg in 63 games. He'll have to sit out a year, but will (hopefully) join Sandy Cohen as one of two juniors on the squad in two years. I think there were two graduate transfers that were looking at Marquette as well.

[patrickgpe]

Rowsey could be huge; they really need a scorer.

 

I know marquette was looking at Damion Lee, who is going to Lousiville haven't heard much about other players. The article in todays paper did say that Wojo would bring someone one but they would have to be a carlino player that can make a difference.