Purely hypothetical "what if" game - Greinke and Sabathia trades

[homer]

 

Baseball needs to get past the idea that young players need to be productive right away or they aren't "ready", every player is going to have his own learning curve. Instead of being hounded by the pressure to produce they need the room to be comfortable and learn from failure without constantly having to look over their shoulder. This is basic sports psychology stuff that MLB has typically been horrible at, baseball is probably the most mentally challenging sport there is because the margins between good and bad are so very small.

 

 

The thing is, if you follow the path you propose you continually wait for guys to develop and you end up with an average teams while the physical catches up with the mental. Then when the guys are just about to blossom you trade them for another younger guy that's not as good. You end up running in place.

 

The point of the thread was to basically ask if people would be more excited about the future if we had all the prospects we never traded away. It's an impossible exercise to some extent because there are so many moves that would or would not have happened had you stood pat. Just thought it'd be fun to think about.

[chickinbrickin]

i'd gladly do those trades again and again. why? because they led to playoff appearances. half of the guys the brewers traded away have amounted to nothing. matt laporta? nobody. escobar? nobody. lorenzo cain? who? odorizzi hasn't yet to put up a solid season. brantley is the only good player the brewers lost. i don't think brantley would have made the impact that greinke did.

 

not all prospects are good prospects. the brewers are doing just fine without those guys. would anyone here really trade in the memories of '08 and '11 for a few no name prospects? i sure wouldn't.

 

That wasn't and isn't the question. It's a purely hypothetical question about how would this team look if they still had all the players they'd traded away. And you seem to be awfully dismissive of the players the Brewers traded away and I'm not sure why. None of them complained about the Brewers, none of them had a say, and they helped get the pitchers you so clearly are thrilled we got.

 

Calling guys like Lorenzo Cain a nobody is just...ridiculous.

 

Cain has a 3.1 WAR this year, is hitting over .300, 16 SB's, and a VERY good defender. That's a nobody?

Alcides Escobar is a very good SS. He's an outstanding defender like Cain, and is hitting about .280/.315. Not Arod, but really-really valuable player.

 

Odorizzi's "crime," here is that he hasn't yet put together a dominating season? HE'S 24 YEARS OLD!!! He was good as a 23 year old in the AL East and this year has a FIP of 3.46, has a K/9 of 10.06. What the heck do you want from him? Remember when you called Peralta an ace and said it was an "insult," to him to suggest that Jimmy Nelson is very similar to him?

Well, sorry to break it to you, but last year when Peralta was 24(same age as Odorizzi) he wasn't nearly as good as Odorizzi. In fact THIS YEAR he's has a FIP of 4.20 to Odorizzi's 3.46, about 3.5 fewer K's per 9 IP.

 

And then there's the one you did concede was alright, Brantley...who by the way has been more valuable than anyone on this Brewers team and is a borderline superstar.

 

 

 

So...nobody said that we shouln't have made the trades, rather, how would this team look with the Players we traded away. But trying to diminish the value of every player we traded away....I don't get the point there. Does that make you feel better if the players we traded fail? Don't we still have a historic 2nd half from CC and a couple playoff runs? So no need to distort how good the players we traded actually are.

I think this all goes back to your mantra about prospects are unproven(which is like saying water is wet to me, but I digress).

Just because I don't think they're good doesn't mean I have something against them. There is nothing wrong with what I said about Odorizzi. He has yet to do anything of relevance. He's young and unproven. He could be good or could be a flash in the pan.

 

Alcides Escobar is nothing special. I'll take Segura 100x over him. We've seen how good Segura can be. I think he'll be consistently good once he matures. Escobar was hyped to death and was supposed to be the next big thing. He's not bad, but he's nothing special either. I was a bit harsh on Cain. I take that back. He's still nowhere close to the guy the Brewers have in CF right now. These guys got the Brewers great players because of what they did in the minors. As minor league players they were great. Their perceived value was far greater than their actual production at the MLB level. I don't have much respect for Brewers prospects because they haven't earned it. I don't trust Brewers prospects, especially pitchers. They have fallen short of the hype often. I trust Cardinals prospects more because most of them are consistently good.

 

Segura over Alcides 100x over? Alcides is one of the top defensive shortstops in the league. Segura is good on defense, but he can't touch Alcides. I think Segura has more of a chance of being that "flash in the pan" you mention.