Brewers acquire OF Gerardo Parra from Arizona; prospects Mitch Haniger and Anthony Banda to D-backs

[Outlander]

I suppose those who think Davis should start vs RHP also think Gennett should start vs LHP

Or those who think Davis should start don't ignore that Davis has a higher OPS than Parra and is therefore a difference maker with his power. Horrible comparison with Gennett against left handers.

[3and2Fastball]

Davis & Parra have practically identical career OPS numbers vs RHP, but Parra has much better BA & OBP numbers vs RHP and is a light years better defensive player than Davis.

[Patrick425]

I haven't seen this Fangraghs article by Jeff Sullivan posted yet, and it is certainly worth the read...

 

Brewers Bet on a Different Sort of Regression

 

...and if reading isn't your thing, then click on it anyway to be mesmerized by this GIF...

 

http://cdn.fangraphs.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Parra2.gif

 

That article pretty much sums up how I feel about the trade. In particular these two lines:

 

Haniger is the better prospect of the two, although he’s got a low ceiling and an unspectacular 2014 campaign under his belt.

 

the Brewers paid relatively little for a guy who, several months ago, would've cost an upper-level prospect. It was a good time to strike.

 

I still maintain that they paid relatively nothing for these two guys. Neither of the two guys they traded away are top 100 prospects and I doubt either of them would even crack the top 200 or 250. It's like getting a deal on prime rib for $5. The worse that can happen is that it tastes horrible and you are out $5..big deal. However, if it's a good cut a meat, you just got yourself a pretty good deal.

[TURBO]

Had he done that against the Cardinals, would there have been tension in the air?

 

Isn't Parra breaking some unwritten rule there in that gif? Is that the classy way to play baseball?

 

...and who was the Dodger with the piano on his back?

[rwa12]

I haven't read all 11 pages, and was gone yesterday. Here are my thoughts. Parra is great as a super 4th OF. Someone was asking who this year's Hairston would be, looks like him. I don't think Parra really needs to platoon, I think he should just rotate through the outfield giving guys breaks. This is the time of year for nagging/exhaustion injuries. I would think that Parra would be a starter on most teams, and is certainly one of the top 4th OF in the game. Nice bench addition.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Now you want a straight platoon with Davis basically now only starting once every 4-5 days?

 

who's advocating this? This seems like a strawman unless a poster actually stated 'thank goodness, now we can sit Davis on the bench most of the time'

 

definitely not a straight platoon with Davis only. On days when the Brewers face a LH starter (probably 25-30% of their remaining games), I want Davis, Gomez, and Braun starting in the OF with Parra on the bench. On days when the Brewers face RH starters, I want to make sure the regular starting OF's (again, Davis, Gomez, and Braun, all RH bats) get enough days off to keep them fresh down the stretch. I would lean towards Parra replacing Davis in the lineup a bit more often than Braun or Gomez, simply because Braun and Gomez are better hitters against RHP than Davis is.

 

The Brewers have 6 scheduled off days the rest of this season - Braun will need a few more than that. Gomez may be able to play everyday through that but odds are he'll need a game or two off at some point too. Both Braun and Gomez have largely been scuffling through July, which likely is the reason the entire offense has been struggling recently. Parra can't play multiple positions at the same time, so on days when he's taking Braun's or Gomez's place in the lineup Davis will also be playing. For every 10 games the Brewers face against RH starters, Parra probably makes 6 starts - probably 4 in place of Davis, 1-2 in place of Braun when he needs a day, and 1 for Gomez if he needs a day. for 70-75% of their remaining games against RHP, Parra starts 60% of the time - adding in the games against LH starters, Parra starts around 20-22 games against RHP during the remaining 53 games of the season. He'll likely be Davis' late-inning defensive replacement, too.

 

So we're really pissed about a LH bat that's much better than Schafer taking AB's from Braun over 2-3 games, Gomez for 1-2 games, and Davis for 8-10 games for the rest of this season? For reference, Schafer's had about 10 games-worth of ABs in RF (for Braun during injury/rest), 8 games-worth in LF (Davis off days), and 4 games-worth in CF (Gomez offdays, as I believe Schafer was hurt when Gomez served his suspension). Schafer's AB's would've been higher had he not been injured himself early on this year, when Herrera and other even worse OF options were getting quite a few ABs.

 

I just don't get it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Had he done that against the Cardinals, would there have been tension in the air?

 

Isn't Parra breaking some unwritten rule there in that gif? Is that the classy way to play baseball?

 

...and who was the Dodger with the piano on his back?

Looks like it was Dan Haren

[yfinn6]

Had he done that against the Cardinals, would there have been tension in the air?

 

Isn't Parra breaking some unwritten rule there in that gif? Is that the classy way to play baseball?

 

...and who was the Dodger with the piano on his back?

Looks like it was Dan Haren

 

I've only seen that happen in high school - to a kid on my team. Looked like Haren was kind of chuckling about it, and so were a few guys on the bench, which was our reaction, too. Kid on my team hit a missile to RF and was out at 1B by 2 steps.

[adambr2]

Now you want a straight platoon with Davis basically now only starting once every 4-5 days?

 

who's advocating this? This seems like a strawman unless a poster actually stated 'thank goodness, now we can sit Davis on the bench most of the time'

 

definitely not a straight platoon with Davis only. On days when the Brewers face a LH starter (probably 25-30% of their remaining games), I want Davis, Gomez, and Braun starting in the OF with Parra on the bench. On days when the Brewers face RH starters, I want to make sure the regular starting OF's (again, Davis, Gomez, and Braun, all RH bats) get enough days off to keep them fresh down the stretch. I would lean towards Parra replacing Davis in the lineup a bit more often than Braun or Gomez, simply because Braun and Gomez are better hitters against RHP than Davis is.

 

The Brewers have 6 scheduled off days the rest of this season - Braun will need a few more than that. Gomez may be able to play everyday through that but odds are he'll need a game or two off at some point too. Both Braun and Gomez have largely been scuffling through July, which likely is the reason the entire offense has been struggling recently. Parra can't play multiple positions at the same time, so on days when he's taking Braun's or Gomez's place in the lineup Davis will also be playing. For every 10 games the Brewers face against RH starters, Parra probably makes 6 starts - probably 4 in place of Davis, 1-2 in place of Braun when he needs a day, and 1 for Gomez if he needs a day. for 70-75% of their remaining games against RHP, Parra starts 60% of the time - adding in the games against LH starters, Parra starts around 20-22 games against RHP during the remaining 53 games of the season. He'll likely be Davis' late-inning defensive replacement, too.

 

So we're really pissed about a LH bat that's much better than Schafer taking AB's from Braun over 2-3 games, Gomez for 1-2 games, and Davis for 8-10 games for the rest of this season? For reference, Schafer's had about 10 games-worth of ABs in RF (for Braun during injury/rest), 8 games-worth in LF (Davis off days), and 4 games-worth in CF (Gomez offdays, as I believe Schafer was hurt when Gomez served his suspension). Schafer's AB's would've been higher had he not been injured himself early on this year, when Herrera and other even worse OF options were getting quite a few ABs.

 

I just don't get it.

 

So you make a strawman reference, then proceed to say that "we're really pissed about a LH bat that's much better than Schafer." Nice.

 

Anyway, I was responding to post #198 where 3and2 suggested a platoon. So yeah, it was directly suggested.

 

I am not pissed about having Parra. I just don't want this to turn Davis into a part-time player. Beyond the numbers, we should also consider that Davis is a player on the rise and Parra is not (I know they are only a year apart, but they are at vastly different points in their careers)

 

I don't want our 2 best power hitters to be part time players.

[topper09er]

Had he done that against the Cardinals, would there have been tension in the air?

 

Isn't Parra breaking some unwritten rule there in that gif? Is that the classy way to play baseball?

 

...and who was the Dodger with the piano on his back?

Looks like it was Dan Haren

 

I've only seen that happen in high school - to a kid on my team. Looked like Haren was kind of chuckling about it, and so were a few guys on the bench, which was our reaction, too. Kid on my team hit a missile to RF and was out at 1B by 2 steps.

 

Im pretty sure Larry Walker did that once also

[Pugger]

I think this is probably the first and only deal of the day. It does fill a major bench hole and we didn't give up much so it is a solid deal.

 

This is what I thought too when I heard the news. Wasn't our bench an area of need?

[SRB]

I'm not sure a straight platoon is in order, because I wouldn't want to mess with Davis too much (who actually has been quite solid), and since Parra is having a down season at the moment, but I did some cocktail napkin math:

 

Parra career v. RHP = .286/.335/.425/.760, .327 wOBA [+11.0 UZR/150 in LF]

Davis career v. LHP = .294/.345/.632/.977, .418 wOBA [-2.5 UZR/150 in LF]

 

If we assume 1/3 of PA against LHP, 2/3 against RHP, and just applying those weights to the above numbers (like I said, far too simplistic most likely), you get a combined line of:

 

.288/.339/.494/.833, .357 wOBA [+6.5 UZR/150 in LF]

 

Closest full-season stat line I could find to that was Alex Gordon in 2012, when he had a .357 wOBA and +7.3 UZR for a season fWAR of 5.6

[Fear The Chorizo]

I don't want our 2 best power hitters to be part time players.

 

Since that's not going to happen, I think you can rest easy. Part of my last post was aimed at earlier posts in the thread speculating that the Parra trade was a precursor for Davis to be traded at the deadline, too.

 

This thread just has a weird mix of "don't like the trade because RR will now probably bench Davis", "hate the trade because Haniger could become a serviceable OF in 3-4 seasons", "ok with the trade but wish there would've been a bigger splash", "should've stayed pat because Parra isn't much better than Schafer", and "love the trade because one of the main roster deficiencies of this Brewers team was poor backup OFs and LH options." I'm sure the actual outcome of this trade is somewhere in between all these opinions, but let's at least have the team play a few games with Parra on the roster to see how it shakes out. Otherwise we're all going to make the guy in 'Office Space' a lot of money...

 

http://themoornextdoor.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/office_space_kit_mat.jpeg

[chadomac]

Very weird thread. The amount of people that think Davis is going to lose significant playing time due to this move is shocking to me.

[swheeler23]

My only problem with it is Parra thinks he is a full time Outfielder. I guess you don't want someone who doesn't want to start . I hope it doesn't create a problem like on the Dodgers earlier in the year.

[Patrick425]

I don't want our 2 best power hitters to be part time players.

 

Since that's not going to happen, I think you can rest easy. Part of my last post was aimed at earlier posts in the thread speculating that the Parra trade was a precursor for Davis to be traded at the deadline, too.

 

This thread just has a weird mix of "don't like the trade because RR will now probably bench Davis", "hate the trade because Haniger could become a serviceable OF in 3-4 seasons", "ok with the trade but wish there would've been a bigger splash", "should've stayed pat because Parra isn't much better than Schafer", and "love the trade because one of the main roster deficiencies of this Brewers team was poor backup OFs and LH options." I'm sure the actual outcome of this trade is somewhere in between all these opinions, but let's at least have the team play a few games with Parra on the roster to see how it shakes out. Otherwise we're all going to make the guy in 'Office Space' alot of money...

 

 

Isn't that what a lot of sports discussion is about? Isn't that part of the fun of being a sports fan...trying to predict how different transactions, injuries, etc will effect your team? What the manager will do. What the lineups will be. Who will play where. There are several threads in this forum based on predictions (Brewre record in a certain month or for the year, playoff predictions). I don't see how predicting the ramifications of a trade is any different. You don't have to agree with any or all of the conclusions that people are making regarding the trade and you are always free to come up with your own conclusions, but I don't see any harm in trying to guess how the addition of a new player to the roster will affect playing time of current players.

[adambr2]

I don't want our 2 best power hitters to be part time players.

 

Since that's not going to happen, I think you can rest easy. Part of my last post was aimed at earlier posts in the thread speculating that the Parra trade was a precursor for Davis to be traded at the deadline, too.

 

This thread just has a weird mix of "don't like the trade because RR will now probably bench Davis", "hate the trade because Haniger could become a serviceable OF in 3-4 seasons", "ok with the trade but wish there would've been a bigger splash", "should've stayed pat because Parra isn't much better than Schafer", and "love the trade because one of the main roster deficiencies of this Brewers team was poor backup OFs and LH options." I'm sure the actual outcome of this trade is somewhere in between all these opinions, but let's at least have the team play a few games with Parra on the roster to see how it shakes out. Otherwise we're all going to make the guy in 'Office Space' alot of money...

 

 

Isn't that what a lot of sports discussion is about? Isn't that part of the fun of being a sports fan...trying to predict how different transactions, injuries, etc will effect your team? What the manager will do. What the lineups will be. Who will play where. There are several threads in this forum based on predictions (Brewre record in a certain month or for the year, playoff predictions). I don't see how predicting the ramifications of a trade is any different. You don't have to agree with any or all of the conclusions that people are making regarding the trade and you are always free to come up with your own conclusions, but I don't see any harm in trying to guess how the addition of a new player to the roster will affect playing time of current players.

 

Exactly. That's all we can really do now is speculate since we haven't played an inning since the trade.

[MadScientist]

Other than occasional starts, I think Parra will be used as defensive replacement (particularly on double switches). In this situation, do you think the Brewers will just put him in left, or put him in right and move Braun to left? Braun had quite a few assists while playing in left, and Parra has great arm for playing in right. Runners will be hard pressed to try to take the extra base with this outfield.

 

The worst part of trading Haniger is that it means a fairly high draft pick only progressed enough to be worth half a MLB 4th outfielder.

[TheCrew07]

Mitch Haniger is valuable, he wasn't "nothing". I don't have problem trading him because as I said the OF situation is very crowded in the short and long term.

 

I do take issue with how his talents and ceiling are being represented by some in this thread. BC is incredibly hard on RH batters and he's held his own very well in AA. Braun only put a .784 OPS in BC and the way Haniger is being scrutinized in this thread I wonder what would have been posted about had he been traded at the deadline in 2006.

[JohnBriggs12]

Bottom line is they got a starting caliber OF albeit one who is a bit below average offensively to fill a role they wanted Schafer to fill at the beginning of the season. Neither Schafer nor the internal alternative Gindl who's OPS at AAA is down considerably from 2013 were the answers. Both now seem longshots to retain their 40 man status in the winter.

 

Had Schafer performed up to expectations, say about what Parra's done this year, he'd have played considerably more. Gomez is showing signs of wearing down which is not surprising given his all out style. Davis has never played a full major league season of logging over 600 PA. Braun has history of needed days off as well. Parra's going to play. Not against every RH pitcher, but against a lot of them, and not always for Davis either and he's going to be in the OF for the 8th and 9th anytime they have a lead that's under 5 runs.

[sveumrules]

Mitch Haniger is valuable, he wasn't "nothing". I don't have problem trading him because as I said the OF situation is very crowded in the short and long term.

 

I do take issue with how his talents and ceiling are being represented by some in this thread. BC is incredibly hard on RH batters and he's held his own very well in AA. Braun only put a .784 OPS in BC and the way Haniger is being scrutinized in this thread I wonder what would have been posted about had he been traded at the deadline in 2006.

 

Braun's 784 OPS was good for a 121 wRC+, that's much more impressive than Haniger's 719/107 performance. Also Braun was a "3rd baseman" at the time and was a much higher draft pick and far more highly regarded as a prospect. Comparing the two is disingenuous.

[torts]

I dont care Haniger got traded, 23 at AA, the kid was basically blocked from the majors for 3 years anyways with Davis/Braun/Gomez there, last thing I want to see is a kid get to AAA quickly and then sit there for 2+ years because theres nowhere for him to go. At least now he'll have a chance to break into the majors with less obstruction (without actually looking at AZ's roster)

[SRB]

Mitch Haniger is valuable, he wasn't "nothing". I don't have problem trading him because as I said the OF situation is very crowded in the short and long term.

 

I do take issue with how his talents and ceiling are being represented by some in this thread. BC is incredibly hard on RH batters and he's held his own very well in AA. Braun only put a .784 OPS in BC and the way Haniger is being scrutinized in this thread I wonder what would have been posted about had he been traded at the deadline in 2006.

 

That was 260 PA and the only time in Braun's career that he hasn't destroyed the ball. The same season he also put up a .956 OPS at AA. Ryan Braun was also a top 10 draft pick, and was universally considered a top-50 prospect in all of baseball by 2006.

 

Mitch Haniger is not a great prospect...

[reillymcshane]

Parra provides great depth for the rest of the season. Not bad considering all the little injuries we've had this year. Plus he can spot start, pinch hit and be a defensive replacement.

 

Next year, we could keep Parra and put him in RF, and move Braun to 1B (a debateable move, but one I think would be good.)

[SRB]

Parra provides great depth for the rest of the season. Not bad considering all the little injuries we've had this year. Plus he can spot start, pinch hit and be a defensive replacement.

 

Next year, we could keep Parra and put him in RF, and move Braun to 1B (a debateable move, but one I think would be good.)

 

Honestly, this is an easy way to immediately improve the team in both 2014 and 2015, and I don't understand why they don't do it.