Brewers acquire OF Gerardo Parra from Arizona; prospects Mitch Haniger and Anthony Banda to D-backs

[The stache]

http://imageshack.com/a/img745/6885/HTWeqh.png

[BrewersAA]

 

I give little credence to Spring Training breakouts, every year there are tons of nobodies who light it up in the spring to never be heard from again. I also take AFL stats with a grain of salt as it is a notoriously hitter friendly league. Sure, The Wisconsin numbers are nice but he has slashed 250/323/396 in Brevard and 255/316/416 at Huntsville, both marks barely above league average.

 

Starting in AAA and pushing for playing time in MLB are two very different things. The 9 players with the most at bats in Nashville are Hector Gomez, Sean Halton, Caleb Gindl, Eugenio Velez, Hunter Morris, Pete Orr, Jeremy Hermida, Kevin Mattison and Irving Falu. How many of them have really pushed for playing time in Milwaukee?

 

 

So, if you take out April he was literally a top 5 hitter in AA, cant ignore that. I always entirely ignore Brevard stats, you just hope to hear stories from the coaches about developing pitches and approaches and such. He had legitimate consideration to make the team out of ST. Of all of the trades made today he is considered the best prospect traded, look at the return compared to other trades.

 

All of that said, I LOVE how Parra fits this team, I think this addition, with a healthy Henderson is enough to get the brewers to the playoffs, possibly win the central. I just think they overpaid.

[danzig6767]

 

And yes, he very well could have pushed for PT in Milwaukee next year. If you are arguing that he would have likely started the year in AAA, how can you argue that he wouldn't have pushed for PT in Milwaukee next year? He can play all 3 OF spots and has produced when healthy.

Pushed for playing time where next year on the big league club?

 

Certainly not in CF or RF. That leaves only LF and the odds of Haniger pushing Davis for playing time would have been microscopic.

 

Haniger was one of those prospects who is solid in a number of areas, but great or exciting at nothing. Those type of players tend to become backups in the majors, if they even get to the bigs.

 

He has a career .776 OPS in the minors and not as some underaged kid during those stops at each level. He struggled in A+ ball last year as a 22 year old and this year he has a .732 OPS in AA ball as a 23 year old.

 

Sure it's possible that Haniger has a breakout season next year in AA or AAA, but so far there isn't much evidence to support that belief.

[The stache]

Yikes, this means the Tigers are trotting out the last 3 American League Cy Young Award winners.

 

The Tigers old owner, Mike Ilitch, really wants a ring before he shuffles off.

[HiAndTight]

 

I give little credence to Spring Training breakouts, every year there are tons of nobodies who light it up in the spring to never be heard from again. I also take AFL stats with a grain of salt as it is a notoriously hitter friendly league. Sure, The Wisconsin numbers are nice but he has slashed 250/323/396 in Brevard and 255/316/416 at Huntsville, both marks barely above league average.

 

Starting in AAA and pushing for playing time in MLB are two very different things. The 9 players with the most at bats in Nashville are Hector Gomez, Sean Halton, Caleb Gindl, Eugenio Velez, Hunter Morris, Pete Orr, Jeremy Hermida, Kevin Mattison and Irving Falu. How many of them have really pushed for playing time in Milwaukee?

 

It sounds like you're not giving credence to anything that doesn't support your argument.

 

I'm not sure when the AFL became insignificant, but fine dismiss that. But if you're going to push the whole, "it's a hitter friendly league," then doesn't his performance in BC count for anything? The way he was raking in AA?

 

 

And finally, do you see the overwhelming flaw in your logic regarding AAA players? You list those who have the most at bats. Do you think maybe they have the most at bats because they haven't earned promotions? You're starting to blatantly ignore anything that doesn't support the opinion you formed the first time you opened his BBRef page.

 

Seriously, Pete Orr? What in the world does the number of AB's he has for Nashville have to do with the chances that Haniger could have pushed for playing time next year in Milwaukee? It's an illogical argument.

[HiAndTight]

 

And yes, he very well could have pushed for PT in Milwaukee next year. If you are arguing that he would have likely started the year in AAA, how can you argue that he wouldn't have pushed for PT in Milwaukee next year? He can play all 3 OF spots and has produced when healthy.

Pushed for playing time where next year on the big league club?

 

Certainly not in CF or RF. That leaves only LF and the odds of Haniger pushing Davis for playing time would have been microscopic.

Haniger was one of those prospects who is solid in a number of areas, but great or exciting at nothing. Those type of players tend to become backups in the majors, if they even get to the bigs.

 

He has a career .776 OPS in the minors and not as some underaged kid during those stops at each level. He struggled in A+ ball last year as a 22 year old and this year he has a .732 OPS in AA ball as a 23 year old.

 

Sure it's possible that Haniger has a breakout season next year in AA or AAA, but so far there isn't much evidence to support that belief.

 

 

Where exactly did ANYONE say he was going to take over a starting job from Braun, Gomez or Davis next year? Framing the argument that way and then saying he doesn't have a chance to beat out Gomez or Braun and very little to beat out Davis when the ACTUAL argument was that he could "push for playing time." Generally a team goes with more than 3 OF'ers. Usually it's 5.

 

And Haniger was raking in AA after struggling the first month. And yes, he was young for the league. 1.5 years below the league average.

 

I'm also not sure when a .752 OPS in AA after hitting .193 in the first month is somehow a black mark. He's steadily progressed and made adjustments at every level to the point where he was crushing AA pitching.

So at every level he's performed very well. AFL, Spring Training, A ball, BC, and AA. Nobody said he did so without experiencing any struggles, but if that's the barometer, then you can turn around and make the argument Tyrone Taylor hasn't done anything to expect much out of him either as he only put up a .738 OPS at Wisconsin.

 

 

And again, this is all forgetting about a talented pitcher we threw in the deal.

[brewmann04]

WE have some Talented Possible OF throughout the System

[ImScafering]

Bad Trade by the Brewers. I would've been happier if they did nothing. Parra said today that as long as he plays everyday that he will be happy...That is not going to happen. The only thing he has on Schafer is a better arm. He will only give us 1 or 2 more hits per week because we will platoon him. How many games have we lost this year because of Davis' lack of range and arm?? Not many, if any. This trade will only create turmoil....mark my words.

[chadomac]

Someone just called 1250AM and said that this thread probably means that Davis is benched, Braun is going back to LF, and then Parra will take RF. Wow.

 

I don't know why I listen to talk radio.

[TheCrew07]

I think as usual there are posters who are a looking at a statline and making determinations about what a young player is or isn't without any context.

 

Haniger has enough tools to be an average RF offensively with above average defense as his ceiling.

 

He'll hit somewhere between .250 and .270, has the potential to hit 20 HRs, has a decent eye at the plate, a good arm, and can even play a passable CF. He's not a burner, but he's not slow, he's just a very good baseball player who does many things well but isn't all that flashy.

 

Parra is a decent upgrade of the bench and Milwaukee's OF situation is crowded so losing Haniger isn't the end of world, but Haniger may well end up having a better all around career. This trade isn't a slam dunk win for the Brewers but they traded from a position of strength to acquire an upgrade for the MLB team which made more sense than trying to sell out for someone like Price.

[sveumrules]

It sounds like you're not giving credence to anything that doesn't support your argument.

 

I'm not sure when the AFL became insignificant, but fine dismiss that. But if you're going to push the whole, "it's a hitter friendly league," then doesn't his performance in BC count for anything? The way he was raking in AA?

 

 

And finally, do you see the overwhelming flaw in your logic regarding AAA players? You list those who have the most at bats. Do you think maybe they have the most at bats because they haven't earned promotions? You're starting to blatantly ignore anything that doesn't support the opinion you formed the first time you opened his BBRef page.

 

Seriously, Pete Orr? What in the world does the number of AB's he has for Nashville have to do with the chances that Haniger could have pushed for playing time next year in Milwaukee? It's an illogical argument.

 

I'm giving credence to the most reliable information. His 636 combined plate appearances in A+/AA tell us far more than his 236 plate appearances in A ball or his 150ish plate appearances in the notoriously fluky environments of Spring Training and the AFL.

 

His performance in Brevard does count for something, he hit 7% better than league average. For me that is holding his own, but nothing to get excited about. Compare that to Taylor who is currently hitting 18% better than league average while being considerably younger. That I can get excited about.

 

Right, none of those guys in AAA have earned a promotion because they suck and there are no vacancies. Much the same as our outfield has no vacancies for the next couple years, thus starting in AAA and pushing for playing time in the bigs are two distinct entities. By the time their is a vacancy I'd much rather it be filled by Taylor than by Haniger.

[AZBrewCrew]

I wonder how Parra is going to be received in the clubhouse. Didnt he have some pretty strong words about Braun after the suspension last year?

[zzzmanwitz]

Bad Trade by the Brewers. I would've been happier if they did nothing. Parra said today that as long as he plays everyday that he will be happy...That is not going to happen. The only thing he has on Schafer is a better arm. He will only give us 1 or 2 more hits per week because we will platoon him. How many games have we lost this year because of Davis' lack of range and arm?? Not many, if any. This trade will only create turmoil....mark my words.

 

I really don't understand your line of thinking on this trade. Parra is a MUCH better hitter than Schafer and is probably a little bit better in the field.

[danzig6767]

 

Where exactly did ANYONE say he was going to take over a starting job from Braun, Gomez or Davis next year? Framing the argument that way and then saying he doesn't have a chance to beat out Gomez or Braun and very little to beat out Davis when the ACTUAL argument was that he could "push for playing time." Generally a team goes with more than 3 OF'ers. Usually it's 5.

 

And Haniger was raking in AA after struggling the first month. And yes, he was young for the league. 1.5 years below the league average.

 

I'm also not sure when a .752 OPS in AA after hitting .193 in the first month is somehow a black mark. He's steadily progressed and made adjustments at every level to the point where he was crushing AA pitching.

So at every level he's performed very well. AFL, Spring Training, A ball, BC, and AA. Nobody said he did so without experiencing any struggles, but if that's the barometer, then you can turn around and make the argument Tyrone Taylor hasn't done anything to expect much out of him either as he only put up a .738 OPS at Wisconsin.

 

And again, this is all forgetting about a talented pitcher we threw in the deal.

Tyrone Taylor is only 20 years old, that's why he's yet to play above A+ ball where he currently has a .766 OPS.

 

Hey time will tell on Haniger. You are free to like his prospects going forward more than others. Arizona wasn't going to just give us Parra for nothing. So you obviously feel the Brewers overpaid, while other don't. We'll see how the team does the rest of the year, if Parra helps, if he's on the team next year, and how well Haniger develops for Arizona.

 

A lot of variables will determine how this trade is viewed in the future.

[Raw Biz]

Banda sounds too much like Bando. I'm glad he's gone.

[guylanderfridancies]

 

I give little credence to Spring Training breakouts, every year there are tons of nobodies who light it up in the spring to never be heard from again. I also take AFL stats with a grain of salt as it is a notoriously hitter friendly league. Sure, The Wisconsin numbers are nice but he has slashed 250/323/396 in Brevard and 255/316/416 at Huntsville, both marks barely above league average.

 

 

So would you say you take the AFL pitching stats with a grain of sugar?

[Ennder]

I don't really like the deal but just about anything you put on the field will be better than Schafer. He can't hit, his defense seems shaky for someone who is supposed to be a great defensive player and he can't even seem to bunt. 4th OF was definitely a need for this team because if anyone gets hurt and we have to start Schafer it is a complete nightmare. I think we overpaid for Parra though, probably because he has been a bit of a Brewer killer.

[Thurston Fluff]

If I was to look at this team and assess what it needs most I think a left handed hitting bench player who can contribute on both offense and defense would have been high on my list. Well done.

[gregmag]

I've gotten upset before when prospects I believed in got dealt, so I'm not going to argue with Haniger's boosters. I hope they're right; I hope he has a great career. I'll just say I'm okay with putting him in this deal.

 

TheCrew07 gave, I think, a fair estimate of what Haniger might be able to do. In particular, I think it's reasonable to argue that the first six years of Haniger's MLB career will be worth more than the next 1.25 years of Parra's career. Maybe even a lot more. But that's okay. To put this in perspective, think about including Michael Brantley (a guy I loved as a prospect) in the deal for two months of Sabathia. I think, for the Brewers, that was a good use of Michael Brantley. He has broken out this year, and he'd improve our team, but not dramatically. He may have more good years, though this kind of looks like an age 27 spike. But Sabathia put us in the playoffs. Parra's nowhere near that important, but he does address our most glaring weakness. I think there's a good chance we'll look back at this trade in five years and say it was a good use of Haniger for us.

[3and2Fastball]

You think Khris Davis is going to start Friday night vs RHP Adam Wainwright? I'm betting it is Parra starting, hopefully in right with Braun moved back to left field.

[MNBrew]

If I was to look at this team and assess what it needs most I think a left handed hitting bench player who can contribute on both offense and defense would have been high on my list. Well done.

Bingo.

 

I've long said that your 4th OF and your 5th IF need to be guys with whom you're comfortable as long-stretch everyday starters. That makes for solid depth when everyone's healthy and NOT so much trouble when someone gets hurt. I've liked Schafer for 5 years or more, and he's still an excellent defender w/ good speed, but Parra's a significant upgrade over him on lots of levels including defense.

[HiAndTight]

I'm giving credence to the most reliable information. His 636 combined plate appearances in A+/AA tell us far more than his 236 plate appearances in A ball or his 150ish plate appearances in the notoriously fluky environments of Spring Training and the AFL.

 

No, you're giving credence to what you deem the most reliable information. He's performed above average everywhere. The Arizona Fall League is a VERY competitive league. He perfromed well there. But that was a fluke. Fine. Then he performed EXCEPTIONALLY well in AA except for April which I'm going to call a fluke.

 

His performance in Brevard does count for something, he hit 7% better than league average. For me that is holding his own, but nothing to get excited about. Compare that to Taylor who is currently hitting 18% better than league average while being considerably younger. That I can get excited about.

 

Ok, so take Taylor's best and Haniger's worst and that's the reason to get excited about Taylor but to declare Haniger insignificant and no real loss.

 

For the record, I like Taylor more as well. I was using him to prove a point.

 

Right, none of those guys in AAA have earned a promotion because they suck and there are no vacancies.

 

First of all, Gindl, Schafer, Falu and others HAVE been promoted from AAA.

 

My initial argument was that even starting by saying, "look at the guys who have the most at bats in AAA, they haven't been promoted," is on it's face illogical as those who get promoted aren't going to have the most at bats. But since you seem to want to stick to that original argument, fine. There have been several guys called up this year. And of course if a 23 year old prospect is performing equal to a 30 year old non-prospect, the 23 year old is going to get the nod.

Much the same as our outfield has no vacancies for the next couple years, thus starting in AAA and pushing for playing time in the bigs are two distinct entities. By the time their is a vacancy I'd much rather it be filled by Taylor than by Haniger.

 

Actually...no, YOU made them two different "entities." Neither are entities, rather potential scenario's, but I digress.

 

The statement which you vehemently objected to was that he would have pushed for playing time in Milwaukee NEXT YEAR. So starting in AAA and pushing for PT in Milwaukee next year...those two things are NOT mutually exclusive. It's a normal progression of events. He was on pace to push for playing time in Milwaukee as soon as next year.

 

Then, in your next argument is the fallacy that because all of our STARTERS will be back next year, that he won't be up(never mind the fact that there are no vacancies NOW and yet we traded for an OF'er) that by the time there IS a vacancy, you'd rather go with Taylor than Haniger.

 

As if this discussion was EVER "which player would you rather take over for in the OF in 3 years, Taylor or Haniger."

The debate is very simple.

 

In my opinion, we gave up too much.

In your opinion Haniger was a player of little consequence or however you articulated that point and losing him is insignificant.

 

By trying to project 3 years into the future and say you'd rather have Taylor start over Haniger doesn't further that argument. It has nothing to do with it.

 

 

I'll make this simple. I do like the addition of Parra, but his value to me with his diminished defense, the fact that he's a corner OF'er with a sub 700 OPS and has demanded a starting job is NOT worth 6 years of a very promising young player like Haniger as well as a talented long shot lefty in Banda.

 

He's a minor upgrade over Schafer based on this year in that he won't hurt us AS MUCH as Schafer has if he plays the way he has the first 100+ games.

[HiAndTight]

If I was to look at this team and assess what it needs most I think a left handed hitting bench player who can contribute on both offense and defense would have been high on my list. Well done.

Bingo.

 

I've long said that your 4th OF and your 5th IF need to be guys with whom you're comfortable as long-stretch everyday starters. That makes for solid depth when everyone's healthy and NOT so much trouble when someone gets hurt. I've liked Schafer for 5 years or more, and he's still an excellent defender w/ good speed, but Parra's a significant upgrade over him on lots of levels including defense.

 

 

He is NOT a significant upgrade over Schafer defensively.

 

Again;

Parra -.3 WAR

Schafer -.2 WAR

 

Schafer has played more, and Parra is a better bat.

 

 

And frankly, if I was to look at this team and what it needed, a legitimate ace is at the very top of that list and then a very good right handed reliever is 2nd. But it's a matter of cost. Like Parra but not at the cost given how he's performed in a hitter friendly park this year.

[HiAndTight]

You think Khris Davis is going to start Friday night vs RHP Adam Wainwright? I'm betting it is Parra starting, hopefully in right with Braun moved back to left field.

 

 

Maybe Parra will start because they tend to try and get the new guy in the line up right away from a trade or even a callup, but I see no reason to mess with Braun in order to do so, and since Davis has a better line vs right handed pitchers, it wouldn't be to put the better hitter out there.

 

Parra does hit for a higher average and have more speed, so he may have value in being able to help manufacture runs....I suppose.

[sveumrules]

He is NOT a significant upgrade over Schafer defensively.

 

Again;

Parra -.3 WAR

Schafer -.2 WAR

 

Schafer has played more, and Parra is a better bat.

 

Why quote WAR which is a summation of offense, playing time, position, base running and defense when just comparing the defensive performance of two players?