Brewers acquire OF Gerardo Parra from Arizona; prospects Mitch Haniger and Anthony Banda to D-backs

[SRB]

I am honestly baffled that so many don't think Ryan Braun could play competent defense at 1B, but whatever it's probably a moot point because I doubt he moves anytime soon.

We have explained in detail why. He looked bad the stats were bad, not just the throwing. You may disagree but I don't see how it can be baffling.

 

But they're totally different positions. Maybe "baffling" is too strong, but to me it's like saying a guy with bad range metrics at SS could not play 1B because he doesn't have enough range. (No Yuni jokes please )

 

Now that I think about it, Mark Reynolds is a great example of a horrendous 3B who is a plus defender at 1B. They're just completely different positions, the latter is the easiest position in the game, and I can't believe that any player with plus athleticism like Braun could not easily pick up 1B.

[adambr2]

I don't have an issue with moving him to 1st if you're doing it to begin a season, when he gets plenty of spring training reps and can learn the position.

 

My issue is with rolling the dice trying to do it in the middle of August just to accommodate a poor offensive outfielder like Parra when he has not played 1 inning at the position in his entire career.

 

Also, the Reynolds example doesn't really apply when he's been an equally bad defender at 1st as 3rd for almost his entire career. He improved to being an average defender at 1st last year and a plus one this year, but he didn't just move from 3rd to 1st for the first time and become a plus defender.

[logan82]

Braun was one of the worst infielders ever. Historically bad. That is not an exageration. Yuni and Reynolds were just bad. Yuni had bad range but decent hands. Braun had good range but couldn't pick the ball off the dirt. Yuni's "skills" translated well to a position where range didn't matter much. Braun's skills translate well to a position where he doesn't have to pick the ball off the ground quickly.

[Outlander]

Banda with another quality start yesterday for Arizona's A ball team. I guess I just don't understand why they throw in a lefty like Banda in the trade and go to such great lengths to keep Wang on the 40 man roster all year.

[Bombers]

Braun was one of the worst infielders ever. Historically bad. That is not an exageration. Yuni and Reynolds were just bad. Yuni had bad range but decent hands. Braun had good range but couldn't pick the ball off the dirt. Yuni's "skills" translated well to a position where range didn't matter much. Braun's skills translate well to a position where he doesn't have to pick the ball off the ground quickly.

I think that is some pretty selective memory going on here.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/braunry02-field.shtml

 

As you can see Braun had 10 fielding errors and 16 throwing errors. Yes, he only played 113 games (But if you take the ratio of (10/113)*150 games - he would average out to 13 fielding errors of a year. Yes, that would equate to Prince's worst year - but I would imagine an athlete like Braun would get better over time, and not worse like Prince. Also, Yuni had 10 fielding errors in 2011 and he had absolutely no range. None. If I had tape of all 10 fielding errors Braun made at 3rd, I would like to see how many of those were "errors" but his speed / quickness got him to the ball where Yuni would have just watched it bounce to left field and not received the wonderful E on the score card.

 

Yuni - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/betanyu01-field.shtml

Prince - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fieldpr01-field.shtml

[logan82]

Not really selective at all. Just look at his UZR in 2007.

 

Errors are a terrible way to judge fielders. I wouldn't even bother with them at all. That is why I used UZR in post #297.

 

If we had a spectrum of fielders it would be

Gomez

Good fielders

Average fielders

Bad fielders

Yuni

 

 

Braun at 3B

[Bombers]

UZR factors in errors into the equation though. My point is 10 of his 26 errors were on the fielding end. Thus a move to 1B wouldn't automatically render him the worst 1B in the league. IMO

[logan82]

I don't care how his errors were split. It is a bad stat.

[sveumrules]

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/2/17/11008934/arizona-diamondbacks-top-20-prospects-for-2016

 

Sickels released his top 20 Arizona prospects today so I thought it seemed like a good time to give this thread a bump.

 

Current tallies!

 

Gerardo Parra | 1.8 bWAR in 146 career game with Milwaukee. Traded for Zach Davies.

Mitch Haniger | 163wRC+ in 226 A+ PA's then 107 wRC+ in 174 AA PA's in 2015. Not ranked on Sickels list. 25 years old & should get his first AAA at bat this year.

Anthony Banda | 15th on Sickels list. Grade C+. "4th Starter Potential." Will be 22 for most of the summer and likely open in AA.

[fondybrewfan]

Haniger is an after thought at this point so it is Davies vs. Banda. It would appear both have about the same ceiling as a mid rotation starter; Davies is about a year ahead of Banda.

 

Kind of seems like a wash to me without considering the MLB impact of Parra on two non-playoff teams for the Crew.

[Mudville9]

Obviously I would rather have Banda than had to throw him in to make the trade, but I think I would trade Haniger and Banda for Davies pretty quick.

[3and2Fastball]

 

Kind of seems like a wash to me without considering the MLB impact of Parra on two non-playoff teams for the Crew.

 

You also have to factor in who the Brewers got for Parra.

 

Zach Davis has some real potential.

[gregmag]

Obviously it would be nice if we still had Banda, but this makes me feel even better about the sequence of trades. Banda is 15th/C+ in a weak Arizona system. (Arizona's ninth best prospect is a B-/C+ guy; for comparison, the C pluses on the Brewers' list begin with Demi at 17.) Davies is a B- guy, 14th in our stronger system, and has already climbed the ladder to the majors. Plus they're about the same age. It's hardly a blowout, but Davies looks like a meaningfully better prospect than Banda through Sickels' lenses. Then you throw in the facts that (a) the only other thing we gave up was Haniger and (b) we got a really strong year (putting together the two partial seasons) out of Gerardo Parra? That's not a huge win, but I think it's very sound resource management.

[MKE81]

I don't care how his errors were split. It is a bad stat.

 

Interesting take given it actually does matter how his errors are split. As a hypothetical, if a guy has 30 errors and you say he can't field the ball to save his life yet 28 errors were on the throwing end then he clearly doesn't have an issue fielding it. You can't say this guy is historically bad at fielding the ball because he can't hit the side of a barn throwing it.

 

Just for your information, a guy I used to work with has been best friends with Counsell forever and when Braun was called up he told us he has no problem picking it he just doesn't know where it's going to end up.

[StearnsFTW]

Obviously I would rather have Banda than had to throw him in to make the trade, but I think I would trade Haniger and Banda for Davies pretty quick.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't trade Davies for those 2.

[MrTPlush]

Interesting what these two are doing post trade. Not saying the trade was bad, but more interesting to look back at some prospects we originally drafted/developed.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hanigmi01.shtml

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=ari

[JosephC]

I thought trading Haniger was a real questionable move considering how well he showed in 2013. But on the other end of the Parra trades the Brewers ended up getting Davies back. Obviously this flip-flopping could still end up being really bad for one side or the other but I think when all is said and done Haniger will end up being a average MLB outfielder and Davies will be a 3rd/4th type starter which is probably a wash type of situation.

 

Pretty surprised that Banda has emerged as he has. Arizona's farm system is one of the weakest in MLB through so I don't know how much weight to put on his #1 ranking. I'm guessing that if you put him in the Brewer's system he probably sits in the 13-15 area? Have to tip your cap to the Diamondbacks for picking him out of the Brewer's system. He may or may not make it in the big leagues but clearly the Diamondbacks chose a player that has a pretty decent chance and I'm not sure that could have been said about Banda back in 2014.

 

Not to be forgotten in all of this is that the Brewers had Parra for a year and he did a good job while he was here.

[Ennder]

To be fair Hanigers xAvg is like .240 this year. This looks more like a hot start than anything sustainable. He also retooled his swing completely so he isn't the same guy we traded.

[MrTPlush]

Like I said not trying to start some argument over this and that. Just found it interesting the D Backs ended up with two pretty darn respectable prospects for a not so great looking Gerardo Parra. Nice pickins by them.

[The stache]

He's got 15 hits and 6 walks in the last ten games. Sustainable or not, he's shown that he can play big boy ball, and I'd rather have him in Milwaukee.

 

 

 

To be fair Hanigers xAvg is like .240 this year. This looks more like a hot start than anything sustainable. He also retooled his swing completely so he isn't the same guy we traded.

[billymac]

Anyone know if Ray Montgomery was doing pro scouting at this time in Arizona?

[Roderick]

Haniger will end up being a average MLB outfielder and Davies will be a 3rd/4th type starter which is probably a wash type of situation.

 

Close to a wash, but if you told me I could have a #3/#4 pitcher or an average OF, I would take the starter.

 

Not that Davies has settled out to whatever he is to be yet. Last year when you just look at NL, he would have to be in the ballpark of 23-26 best starter over the course of the season, which would make him a solid #2. But, obviously the long-term jury is still out.

[jerichoholicninja]

Where exactly would Haniger fit if he was still with Milwaukee? Outfield is pretty packed throughout the organization.

[Ennder]

Where exactly would Haniger fit if he was still with Milwaukee? Outfield is pretty packed throughout the organization.

 

I'm not sure but what he did for the first month of this year was not for real, it was heavily BABIP influenced.

[ZBTMP]

Where exactly would Haniger fit if he was still with Milwaukee? Outfield is pretty packed throughout the organization.

 

I'm not sure but what he did for the first month of this year was not for real, it was heavily BABIP influenced.

 

Even if you regress his BABIP to a projected .300, his stash line is an impressive .263/.378/~.500. I don't know that a 13.7% walk rate and a .250+ iso are for real, but its not all just luck. I wrote him off as a 4th outfielder at best a long time ago, but I'm leaning toward I was wrong.

 

Still makes me think perhaps our development system was further behind than our scouting. Arnett, Cody Adams, Frederickson, Kentrail Davis, Heckathorn, Jungmann, Bradley, Coulter, Roache.... Ok maybe not.