David Ortiz: In The Moment

[The stache]

Has anybody seen this special about Ortiz on EPIX yet? It makes me sick. Everybody is deifying Ortiz, calling him a "great man". He's the main reason that the Red Sox won those 3 World Series Rings. How many of the Sox used steroids to win? Ortiz, Garciaparra, Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon...etc. The guy plays six seasons in Minnesota, and he's never good enough to play full time. He hits 20 home runs once, and they cut him. Six years, 455 games, he hits 45 home runs. Then, suddenly when he goes to Boston, He's hitting 30, 40, 50 home runs in a season.

 

Not a single mention about his using PEDs. The same sports writers that absolutely crucified Ryan Braun for using something to overcome injury like Peter Gammons are slurping "Papi" up. The Red Sox, in addition to his World Series ring, making him another special MVP ring.

 

It all rubs me the wrong way. The whole double standard. "Big Papi is the personification of the American Dream. The ultimate success story that continues to unfold. This is the essence of David Ortiz in the moment."

 

Please. Point me to a toilet where I can hurl.

[torts]

Please. Point me to a toilet where I can hurl.

 

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/index.php

[jerichoholicninja]

PED's? Maybe. Probably. Either way I don't care.

 

I think he went through the same thing Carlos Gomez did, he finally found an organization that let him play to his strengths. I remember seeing an interview with a him quite a few years ago where he said the Twins organization was more interested in teaching players to sacrifice bunt and hit grounders to the right side.

[HiAndTight]

Has anybody seen this special about Ortiz on EPIX yet? It makes me sick. Everybody is deifying Ortiz, calling him a "great man". He's the main reason that the Red Sox won those 3 World Series Rings. How many of the Sox used steroids to win? Ortiz, Garciaparra, Manny Ramirez, Johnny Damon...etc. The guy plays six seasons in Minnesota, and he's never good enough to play full time. He hits 20 home runs once, and they cut him. Six years, 455 games, he hits 45 home runs. Then, suddenly when he goes to Boston, He's hitting 30, 40, 50 home runs in a season.

Not a single mention about his using PEDs. The same sports writers that absolutely crucified Ryan Braun for using something to overcome injury like Peter Gammons are slurping "Papi" up. The Red Sox, in addition to his World Series ring, making him another special MVP ring.

 

It all rubs me the wrong way. The whole double standard. "Big Papi is the personification of the American Dream. The ultimate success story that continues to unfold. This is the essence of David Ortiz in the moment."

 

Please. Point me to a toilet where I can hurl.

 

 

First of all, he was good enough to play in Minnesota. The Twins clearly just didn't realize that. Tom Kelly didn't like him. From what I remember, not only did the Twins place an emphasis on bunting and hitting grounders to the right side, they didn't want their players to be big pull hitters.

 

And I don't know if Ortiz is or isn't a good guy, or a great man, but I DO know that him supposedly showing up positive in a test that was supposed to remain quiet doesn't NOT automatically make him a bad guy. I also am not going to just pick the best players from an era and condemn them all. Damon and Nomar?

 

I personally like Ortiz a lot. I think he's a good guy...from what I can see. Now you never really know...I thought Arod was a good guy 10 years ago. But I did like him having the guts to get up there after the bombing and scream, "this is our *^% city!" That was pretty unifying.

[The stache]

I think Ortiz is entertaining, and while I don't like that he used a performance enhancer, I don't have any big problem with him. Maybe I'm not being clear about what's making me sick, and it wouldn't be the first time. It's really the treatment of Ortiz that is annoying me so. It's like the national sports media looks upon itself as being the Vatican. They think they are the ultimate moral authority, and they like Ortiz, and hate Braun. They trip over each other trying to get to the microphone to sing Big Papi's praises. Braun they not only excommunicate, they will continue taking cheap shots at him even after he's served his suspension.

 

There seems to be a real double standard. I know Braun lied about using something, and that was colossally stupid. But Ortiz is on a list of players that everybody has pretty much accepted as being the equivalent of a smoking gun, and it seems all is forgiven.

 

Braun didn't have a fake website made up to try and cover his tracks, but you don't ever hear about Cabrera, the guy that did do that. I think that's a little higher on the deception scale. But all the media cares about is bashing Braun and ARod.

[yfinn6]

Had Braun not done that press conference before the 2012 season, he would have received a lot less criticism. Had he just successfully appealed and then kept his mouth shut (like he's doing now about the whole situation) then it would have been a lot better for him.

 

The only thing that bothers me about Ortiz is how he watches HR's more than any other batter, yet rarely gets drilled or called out for it. That outburst where he broke the dugout-to-bullpen phone was ridiculous, too.

[sveumrules]

How many of the Sox used steroids to win?

 

Probably right around the same number as guys on the teams they beat in the WS and on all the other 28 teams as well.

 

Ortiz has always had impressive raw power. Griffey and A-Rod certainly seem impressed by Ortiz launching bombs out of T-Rats stadium back in 1996.

 

[The stache]

Had Braun not done that press conference before the 2012 season, he would have received a lot less criticism. Had he just successfully appealed and then kept his mouth shut (like he's doing now about the whole situation) then it would have been a lot better for him.

 

The only thing that bothers me about Ortiz is how he watches HR's more than any other batter, yet rarely gets drilled or called out for it. That outburst where he broke the dugout-to-bullpen phone was ridiculous, too.

 

I agree that Braun probably would have been better off not saying anything. I just remember everybody on ESPN and Yahoo Sports, pretty much everywhere, clamoring for Braun to speak. They weren't going to stop nagging him until he got behind the mic. And I'd bet good money that somebody on Braun's legal team wrote his speech. Still, it doesn't matter because ultimately Braun is responsible for what he says.

 

While Braun should have kept his mouth shut, I think we'd all agree that hiring somebody to develop a fake website to try and cover up your cheating ways is worse than saying what Braun did. Yet I never see anybody ripping on Melky Cabrera.

[phnxcrew]

I completely agree on the ridiculous double standard. Melky looks huge. Marlon byrd looks huge. Every player busted including ortiz still looks to be on the juice. I have a lot of experience in exercise science and body building and it is even more obvious to myself when a player is juicing than others as a result. The fact that that all they talk about is how braun should give his mvp/ money back (etc) needs to stop. He played the same game half of the game's stars have been playing for thirty years. Talk about them all as the devil or stop talking about it.

[sveumrules]

Of course there is a ridiculous double standard, it is the mainstream media. Do you really expect fair, unbiased reporting?

 

Braun will always be villified more than other offenders because of two things, his ill advised press conference and his MVP trophy. The writers voted for him, it was revealed that he "cheated", so they feel personally betrayed and have responded as such.

 

As for the talk of Ryan needing to give back salary or the award needing to stop, hasn't it already stopped? When is the last time anyone suggested that?

[RockCoCougars]

Ortiz definitely gets a pass, probably because of the sports media's love of all things Boston. I'm not a fan of his, and if I had to bet, I'd say he's still juicing.

[phnxcrew]

Of course there is a ridiculous double standard, it is the mainstream media. Do you really expect fair, unbiased reporting?

 

Braun will always be villified more than other offenders because of two things, his ill advised press conference and his MVP trophy. The writers voted for him, it was revealed that he "cheated", so they feel personally betrayed and have responded as such.

 

As for the talk of Ryan needing to give back salary or the award needing to stop, hasn't it already stopped? When is the last time anyone suggested that?

 

I do not imagine the midwest hears as much but in dbacks country (hah) and dodgers nation it comes up in nearly every situation with the brewers.

[jerichoholicninja]

Of course there is a ridiculous double standard, it is the mainstream media. Do you really expect fair, unbiased reporting?

 

Braun will always be villified more than other offenders because of two things, his ill advised press conference and his MVP trophy. The writers voted for him, it was revealed that he "cheated", so they feel personally betrayed and have responded as such.

 

As for the talk of Ryan needing to give back salary or the award needing to stop, hasn't it already stopped? When is the last time anyone suggested that?

 

The double standard is mostly because Braun doesn't play in LA, Chicago, Boston, or New York.

[Dead Simmons]

How many of the Sox used steroids to win?

 

Probably right around the same number as guys on the teams they beat in the WS and on all the other 28 teams as well

 

Absolutely correct. Whether we like it or not, the men that play the game are as greedy as any corporate raider. Fame and money and all that goes with it is the name of the game. And this is nothing new.

 

Even the chemists that produce PED's want to be known. The agents that urge their clients to dope want to get rich and BE KNOWN. I want to be known! I could go on and on about the human condition, but to what purpose? Greed, power and the desire for acquisition is intrinsic to the species. It's not any more complicated than that.

 

PED's are here and will never go away. Our grandchildren will be having this conversation years from now. But there IS something that I wonder about: why are so few pitchers implicated?

[jerichoholicninja]

I've never really cared about David Ortiz one way or the other but his comments after Chris Archer called him out for watching his homeruns made me dislike him.

 

Archer:

"I think it was a perfect example of what Price said," Archer said. "All my interactions with him outside of (baseball), off-the-field, have been good. But when it comes to him on the field, I don't know what makes him think that he can showboat the way he does and then nobody retaliate, nobody look at him a funny way or nobody pitch him inside.

 

"I don't know why he feels like that. But obviously, he feels the way David said he does. He feels like he's bigger than the game. He feels like this show is all about him, which in reality, if I don't walk Daniel Nava or if I don't give up an infield single to (Dustin) Pedroia, his one home run means nothing. I hope that he realizes that there's more that goes into it than just him. And, I don't know, I feel like you can't say that your true character is defined by one action, but multiple actions speak to who you are."

 

Ortiz:

“There’s always going to comments out there. He’s not the right guy to be saying that. He’s got two days in the league, you can’t be just [whining] and complaining about [stuff] like that.”

[DuWayne Steurer]

Can't go three days without there being another article on ESPN about David Ortiz's feelings being hurt. Amazing.

[sveumrules]

It sounded more to me like Archer is the one with hurt feelings here. Ortiz cadillacs every long fly ball he hits, the other team cries foul, and Papi proceeds to not care as evidenced by his comments & continued cadillacking. How this still qualifies as "news" is mystifying to me.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It sounded more to me like Archer is the one with hurt feelings here. Ortiz cadillacs every long fly ball he hits, the other team cries foul, and Papi proceeds to not care as evidenced by his comments & continued cadillacking. How this still qualifies as "news" is mystifying to me.

 

 

I'll rephrase. Can't go three days without a pointless article about David Ortiz. David Ortiz barking at a scorekeeper. David Ortiz cadillacking. David Ortiz is the 2nd best Red Sox hitter of all time, according to some old guy. David Ortiz Cadillacking some more. David Ortiz pissed off David Price.......on and on and on. All of it pretty much pointless....

[Dead Simmons]

I scanned an article today where Yaz stated that Ortiz is the 2nd best hitter in Bosox history. I have to wonder what HIS agenda is.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24639159/yaz-calls-ortiz-second-greatest-red-sox-hitter

[The stache]

Yaz played a good part of his career in a pitching friendly era, and I think he was a better hitter than Ortiz. Now if you want to talk power, they are comparable. But Yaz, in his prime, was a better pure hitter.

[sveumrules]

Yaz career wRC+ is 130.

Papi w/BOS wRC+ is 146.

 

Ortiz has played 12 years with the Sox so if you limit Yaz to his best 12 years (1963-74) his wRC+ goes up to 145 for that stretch so prime Yaz is essentially equal to Papi at the plate.

 

My personal vote for the second best Red Sox hitter would be Tris Speaker who managed a 164 wRC+ in over 4500 plate appearances with Boston between 1908 and 1915.

[502 to Right]

The 'stache -

 

Please tell me on this doll where Mr. Ortiz touched you.

[The stache]

I scanned an article today where Yaz stated that Ortiz is the 2nd best hitter in Bosox history. I have to wonder what HIS agenda is.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24639159/yaz-calls-ortiz-second-greatest-red-sox-hitter

 

It sounds like part of the PR campaign to get David Ortiz support for the Hall of Fame, which ESPN is happily jumping on.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11280604/mlb-david-ortiz-shaping-baseball-first-teflon-slugger

 

ESPN makes me laugh. On Sportscenter, and on their website, they're quietly in David Ortiz' corner. Yet they had no issue jumping all over Ryan Braun. Nice double standard.

[StearnsFTW]

My personal vote for the second best Red Sox hitter would be Tris Speaker who managed a 164 wRC+ in over 4500 plate appearances with Boston between 1908 and 1915.

 

I'd say that's a good call. Tris Speaker was pretty good.

 

Also, Jimmie Foxx.

[Baldkin]

My personal vote for the second best Red Sox hitter would be Tris Speaker who managed a 164 wRC+ in over 4500 plate appearances with Boston between 1908 and 1915.

 

I'd say that's a good call. Tris Speaker was pretty good.

 

Also, Jimmie Foxx.

 

I'd take this guy over Ortiz too:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/17/manny_ramirez.jpg