Should Brewers be sellers?

[NievesNoNO]

No.

This team is very good. Even after what is hopefully their worst baseball of the year they still have the second best record in the NL. Their offense will continue to put runs on the board and their pitching while not great is good enough. I agree, that I don't necessarily like our starting pitching head to head with other would be playoff teams but I'd like our lineup head to head against anyone. They don't need to be the best team to win. As others have mentioned, their injury situation is better than most for the time being.

 

This team is pretty well rounded with a solid 4 starters, speed, power, solid options in the pen, and some nice defense up the middle. While some of those things might not mean much over the course of a season, having options and depth to impact a single game in the playoffs is pretty huge.

 

Their bench needs some work and I'd take another reliever but this team is primed for a deep run into the post season IMO.

[Pugger]

This would be kind of similar to what the Marlins did a year and a half ago which caused complete distrust between the fans and the management, made them a national punch line and caused a lot of empty stadiums. Except this would be way worse because the Marlins actually traded away average, over paid players and that's not what the Brewers have right now.

 

That stadium all shiny and new is still practically empty night after night.

[torts]

Got to agree with the other responses so far. Don't know how many times the Brewers have been in first place at the All-Star break, but it has not been many. So, I would have trouble understanding any thoughts of being sellers.

 

4 I believe

 

1982

2007

2011

2014

[JohnBriggs12]

The White Sox's were something like 3 games out and decided to sell. I think this was the Terry Bevington era.

 

The Brewers roster today vis a vis the competition is a lot stronger than the Sox was back in 1997. Cleveland was loaded that year and White Sox brass knew it. Reds and Cards have key players out. Now if the slide that occurred the last couple weeks continues for the rest of the month, and they do fall behind multiple teams, maybe you move a player or two to help the team in 2015. But you don't trade the core group.

[TigerUppercut]

No. This thread is what happens when theory trumps business common sense. As many players that put the Brewers in their no-trade clauses now, can you imagine what would happen in the future? You'd eliminate yourself from consideration for even mid-level free agents and the ability to add someone before the deadline in coming years. Melvin is a lot of things. Stupid is not one of them.

[DuWayne Steurer]

http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/srsly_b01010_366886.jpg

 

 

 

No.

[TheCrew07]

No. This thread is what happens when theory trumps business common sense.

 

This thread is what happens when people set their eyes on a championship instead of just being happy to get into the playoffs. The problem with most professional franchises is that they possess an extremely short term vision regardless of what "mode" they are in.

 

There's a group of posters on the this forum who regularly lament the fact that WI is all about the Packers and that the Brewers for many are just a summer distraction, well why is that? Maybe the rich history and huge disparity of championships between the organizations might have something to do with it?

 

The Brewers simply haven't earned the right to be held in the same kind of regard as the Packers and I don't intend that to be a slight against baseball at all. The Brewers as a franchise simply don't have anything legitimate to hang their hats on... 1 WS appearance 30 years ago doesn't really mean anything. I would love for the Brewers to become a power in MLB but they aren't going to do without the front end pitching and if they aren't able to develop that pitching and aren't able to compete for it in Free Agency, then they need to trade for it and I'm not talking about unloading prospects for 1-2 year window. I'm talking about trading for pieces of the puzzle with longevity that they can build around.

[FVBrewerFan]

This thread is what happens when people set their eyes on a championship instead of just being happy to get into the playoffs.

 

Precisely. The fact that nobody agrees with me tells me I'm on to something. Contrarians are often mocked, yet often end up being right. Look, I know the Brewers aren't going to trade a Gomez or Braun before the trade deadline. Doesn't mean they shouldn't. It's old thinking. Just like dismissing a 6 man rotation, or anything else that is contrary to the way things have been done in baseball for 100 years.

 

Brewers have made the playoffs a couple times in recent year. It was a long wait, so that was a lot of fun. Enjoyed every minute of it. But now it's time to go for the rings. Only way that happens is to have 2 absolute stud startring pitchers, and a 3rd that's close to that. Some of you have said the best team doesn't always win the WS. True. But no team wins the WS without outstanding starting pitching.

 

Three ways to get those arms. Develop them (which the Brewers have proven they can't do.) Sign a free agent (which the Brewers can't afford.) That leaves a trade. And the only way you get a true stud that is either in MLB or on the verge, is to trade a guy like Braun or Gomez.

 

Sure, we can hope and pray that Peralta and/or Nelson can be legit aces. Or, you can shake things up and take a chance. I guess I'm all alone, and that's fine, but after 30 years I'm ready to try something else.

 

I'll admit my post was provacative. I can see why they wouldn't do anything like this before the trade deadline, for all the reasons mentioned. But if not at the trade deadline, then they need to look at some of these moves during the hot stive league. Either way, quit the fence-straddling. If you want to go for it, put a package together for Price and be done with it. Of course that would mean giving up Nelson and others. But at least it's a legitimate attempt to win it all.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'm having an impossibly hard time coming up with the last Ace-caliber starting pitcher that was traded when he was a prospect, when everyone knew he was going to be a perennial Cy Young candidate. Max Scherzer is the closest I can come up with, but he was traded well after he started accruing service time and losing cost certainty. Teams simply don't include top of the rotation starter-caliber prospects in trades anymore. They'll part ways with upper tier position player prospects to get impact MLB pitching, sure, but the brightest pitching prospects rarely get moved. The only options for the Brewers to bring ace-caliber pitching to Milwaukee are to draft and develop it, or to trade prospects to acquire veteran MLB aces. Free agency for the top 10 arms in the world is a pipe dream and fool's plan for a small market team, and making a trade to acquire one of those type of arms before they make their MLB debut appears even less likely in today's game.

 

I'm talking about trading for pieces of the puzzle with longevity that they can build around.

 

isn't that Will Smith? what Gomez was when they made that deal before Hardy was going to start getting expensive? And the timing of this thread is silly. The Brewers could get the same value in return by trading MLB veterans like Yo, Braun, Gomez, Garza, Lohse, and just about anyone else they have under contract or team control going into 2015 during this coming offseason compared to trading them when the MLB team's in 1st place and they don't have piles of prospects beating down the door to take their place and not miss a beat.

 

as for the Brewers/Packers comparison - if the NFL didn't move toward their current salary cap structure and revenue sharing systems, the Packers would be lucky to have had the success the Brewers have enjoyed in recent years. Before the salary cap was implemented and the dawn of NFL free agency, the Packers were in the midst of their own decades-long stretch of futility. Having who will likely be regarded as 2 of the top 10 all time QBs playing for the Packers over the past two decades has a ton to do with their sustained sucess, too. That argument comparing the NFL/MLB teams is a strawman, IMO. Milwaukee's always been a great baseball town back to the days when the Braves were competing for titles. The economics of baseball put the Brewers and other small market teams at a disadvantage...not insurmountable, but difficult to overcome in order to build an organization intent on competing for titles every year.

[MadScientist]

Well selling Estrada, Weeks and/or Overbay would be ok. Other than that, hell no. There's no reason this team can make a run in the playoffs. They may not have a top ace, but 1-4 (and recent history shows team fair better with 4 than 3 starters in the playoffs) are solid and the lineup is good. Sure they could fail, but unless they totally tank right after the break, they should go for it.

[brewcrewdue80]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2950837/mind-blown-o.gif

 

 

HAHAHAHA Become Sellers? That's preposterous! Mark A is currently writing you a letter requesting you jump off the team bandwagon and go jump on the Cubs or Astros bandwagon. They have your Prospects to drool over. Trade your ML Starters for Prospects when you are leading the division? Because you're attaching the 3vs.3 Rotation matchup as being 100% certain doom and gloom. I mean, lets just ignore the what? Gomez/Gennett/Braun/Lucroy/Ramirez .300ish BA for those pitchers to face. Along with Khris Davis to supply the occasional HR. Maybe Segura turns himself around, rallying behind his son's death? Yeah Pitching helps win Championships, but so does offense. Our top 3, Lohse,Peralta, Garza imo are very capable to go 7ip giving up 1ER-3ER. That's one mistake pitch away with a runner on base to overcome the aces you fear.

 

The other problem in your indication to acquire frontline Pitching prospect: Off the top of my head here's some top ranked pitching prospect names and tell me how they've done:

Shelby Miller

Trevor Bauer

Jacob Turner

Carlos Martinez

Dylan Bundy

Tajian Walker

Zach Wheeler

Archie Bradley

Gerrit Cole

Tyler Skaggs.

 

The only true top notch prospect that to me has lived up to the billing is/was Jose Fernandez.

 

Gerrit Cole has been okay but he's not Ace, I wouldn't be scared going vs. him and Lohse/Wily/Garza going against him that day.

 

There's just no reason to sell really anybody that is on this team this year and beyond. The players you could sell would be Weeks/Reynolds/Overbay since their contracts expire at the end of the season. You can add Gorzo and Estrada to the list since Gorzo will be gone and you have the Leftys to make him expendable and Estrada is essentially banished to the Bullpen now that Nelson is up. But that is it, you don't sell anybody else from the Roster in this season. You only look at selling in the offseason at this point.

 

And if you've followed my posts, you know I'm a Prospect fan too and a guy who seeks younger players to add to the system for aging/replaceable vets. But the Crew sit in such a great position and honestly, are a RH Bullpen piece away to me from controlling the division. Would I like a 1b addition? Yeah but they also bat 7th in the lineup. A Bench Bat? That'd be nice too, but I think shoring up the 7th/8th RH RP is the best addition the team can make to continue this run.

[DuWayne Steurer]

[

 

 

Sure, we can hope and pray that Peralta and/or Nelson can be legit aces. Or, you can shake things up and take a chance. I guess I'm all alone, and that's fine, but after 30 years I'm ready to try something else.

.

 

I think most people would agree, if they weren't in first place (granted, after a rough losing patch,), but still.......in first place......at the all star break.

[torts]

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/05/the-office-o.gif

[fondybrewfan]

Never say never but the likelihood of trading a contributor and getting a return back that improves the big league club this year probably isn't very likely.

 

The chance to make the playoffs simply isn't going to be around every year for the Crew; you need to give it your best shot whenever that chance is realistic. All the teams in the Central have their flaws; the Brewers have as good a shot as anyone.

[JohnBriggs12]

This would be kind of similar to what the Marlins did a year and a half ago which caused complete distrust between the fans and the management, made them a national punch line and caused a lot of empty stadiums. Except this would be way worse because the Marlins actually traded away average, over paid players and that's not what the Brewers have right now.

 

That Marlin team went 69-93 in 2012. How is that in any way similar? It's not like they were breaking up the 27 Yankees. They tried to put together a contending team for the new stadium but it backfired and they got out from under a lot of that money quickly.

[danzig6767]

Why would trading say, Gomez, Yo, and Duke (for example) equal some sort of massive rebuilding for the next 3 years? I don't understand why/how that makes the Brewers a 60 win team with no chance at the playoffs for the next 3 years.

 

Leading the division is fools gold. Making the playoffs is fine, but it's not good enough anymore. If you want to see a legitimate run for a World Series, we need a better rotation. Once again, I'm not talking about trading Braun for 3 single A guys. I'm talking about trading a Braun or Gomez for a top 10 prospect. A "can't miss" stud starter. No such thing as can't miss? True. But also no guarantee Braun will ever be 100% healthy either. Or than Gomez won't become a .230 hitter overnight within the next couple years.

 

But if you guys really believe Yo, Lohse, Garza can win 2-3 playoff series...good luck with that. I much rather put all my chips in a pot I can win.

Did you watch the playoffs in 2011?

 

The Cardinals won a title with a team which needed insane luck to just make the playoffs and then once the playoffs started, many of their starters struggled to pitch only five quality innings.

 

Last year Boston won it all with a pitching staff which ranked 14th in ERA. Atlanta lead the league in ERA, yet won just a single playoff game.

 

It's simply a myth that only teams with a great rotation and pitching staff make it to the World Series.

 

Sure you'd rather have a Kershaw and Greinke leading your pitching staff in the playoffs, but that's far from a guarantee of a spot in the World Series. History has proven that.

 

I won't go as far as some others who say the postseason in baseball is a complete crapshoot, but it's also not very predictable either. Nor does a great rotation almost always lead to postseason success or a non-elite rotation mean that team can't go far in the playoffs so long as their bullpen and offense is productive.

[logan82]

Last year Boston won it all with a pitching staff which ranked 14th in ERA.

I agree overall but this part is misleading. They were 6th in the AL.

[danzig6767]

True, but while Lester did have a great postseason, the only other reliable starter they had in that run was Lackey who was far from ace material. Hell, the year prior Lackey had an abysmal 6.41 ERA.

 

You get in any playoff series, especially the short five game ones and things are often very unpredictable given the nature of baseball. That's why since that great multiple titles stretch by the Yankees many years ago, baseball playoffs for the most part have been quite unpredictable from year to year.

 

For as important as elite starters are in the playoffs, i'd say bullpens have been shown to be nearly as important. The teams who have been able to avoid blowing any games late and/or survived mediocre starts with quality bullpen work tend to have advanced, while often teams who blew late leads suffered badly for it.

 

Ortiz deserved the World Series MVP last year, but IMO Uehara was right up there in importance with Ortiz and Lester during the Red Sox playoff run. Tazawa was also great, along with the Boston pen as a whole.

 

In 2011, Carpenter was the Cardinals only reliable starter in the playoffs, but their pen kept the team alive in many of their games leading to a title. Clearly their offense was also great though in that run. On the flip side, the Texas bullpen arguably lost that World Series vs St. Louis.

[Bnowell4evr]

The only thing we should sell is one of our extra LH relievers to the Angels for one of their many solid RH relievers. Other than that I hope this thread wasn't serious.

[adambr2]

I can't see this happening, unless the skid continues after the break and they end up 5+ down by the deadline.

 

I find some of the suggested trade candidates to be the furthest out there. What in the world would we want to trade Maldonado for? He's the ideal backup catcher, and it's not like we're going to get a good return for him. We'll still need a backup C.

 

Overbay? Reynolds? C'mon, these guys are worth nothing in a trade.

[FVBrewerFan]

I changed my mind. After Wainright's BS last night I want to beat them this year and every year. Thanks for jarring me back into reality everyone.

[logan82]

I changed my mind. After Wainright's BS last night I want to beat them this year and every year. Thanks for jarring me back into reality everyone.

Doesn't really sound like we had anything to do with you changing your mind.

[HiAndTight]

Why would trading say, Gomez, Yo, and Duke (for example) equal some sort of massive rebuilding for the next 3 years? I don't understand why/how that makes the Brewers a 60 win team with no chance at the playoffs for the next 3 years.

 

Leading the division is fools gold. Making the playoffs is fine, but it's not good enough anymore. If you want to see a legitimate run for a World Series, we need a better rotation. Once again, I'm not talking about trading Braun for 3 single A guys. I'm talking about trading a Braun or Gomez for a top 10 prospect. A "can't miss" stud starter. No such thing as can't miss? True. But also no guarantee Braun will ever be 100% healthy either. Or than Gomez won't become a .230 hitter overnight within the next couple years.

 

But if you guys really believe Yo, Lohse, Garza can win 2-3 playoff series...good luck with that. I much rather put all my chips in a pot I can win.

 

 

Well now you're just picking and choosing which players we'd trade from the team. If we went with your original idea of possibly trading Braun, Gomez, Lohse, K-Rod, Gallardo, as well as several other key players. THAT is when someone said they didn't want to be a 60 win team while waiting for prospects. So your response in which you take two players who won't be around next year and ONE of the star players is a little disingenuous.

 

Second, you don't believe that a rotation like Garza, Lohse, Peralta, Gallardo has a chance to win? All you need to do is watch the post-season every year. There are multiple examples of inferior rotations winning. Didn't we just beat Washington 9-2 with Strausburg on the mound? In fact, haven't we beaten several aces this year that we shouldn't have on paper? Did we not beat the defending WS Champs ace Lester earlier this year?

 

Who wouldn't rather have Kershaw/Greinke atop their rotation. But didn't we lose with Sabathia to Myers?

 

 

And isn't it just as likely that Peralta or Nelson will become aces as these "top 10 prospects," that have yet to be named?

[pitchleague]

 

Didn't we just beat Washington 9-2 with Strausburg on the mound?

 

Yes, we did. With a "Sunday Lineup" if I remember right (even though it was a weekday game.)

 

Did we not beat the defending WS Champs ace Lester earlier this year?

 

Again, correct. Plus, A-Ram and Lucroy both lit him up in their 1 AB vs him in the All-Star game.

[TigerUppercut]

No. This thread is what happens when theory trumps business common sense.

 

This thread is what happens when people set their eyes on a championship instead of just being happy to get into the playoffs. The problem with most professional franchises is that they possess an extremely short term vision regardless of what "mode" they are in.

 

There's a group of posters on the this forum who regularly lament the fact that WI is all about the Packers and that the Brewers for many are just a summer distraction, well why is that? Maybe the rich history and huge disparity of championships between the organizations might have something to do with it?

 

The Brewers simply haven't earned the right to be held in the same kind of regard as the Packers and I don't intend that to be a slight against baseball at all. The Brewers as a franchise simply don't have anything legitimate to hang their hats on... 1 WS appearance 30 years ago doesn't really mean anything. I would love for the Brewers to become a power in MLB but they aren't going to do without the front end pitching and if they aren't able to develop that pitching and aren't able to compete for it in Free Agency, then they need to trade for it and I'm not talking about unloading prospects for 1-2 year window. I'm talking about trading for pieces of the puzzle with longevity that they can build around.

 

 

I don't disagree with most of this, and by and large, have been one of those posters taking a longer term view. You can't deny, with any business sense whatsoever, that the Crew doesn't take a major PR hit with the fans, media, players and other front offices competing for the same players for doing this IN SEASON WHILE LEADING THE DIVISION, however. Many prospect gurus have been amazed at the return the Cubs got for a front line starter, and the primary piece wasn't even a pitcher. No struggling team is trading a top 10 or 20 prospect (in season at the deadline), a potential ace, for anything the Brewers have to offer. That's just fact. The rest is fantasy baseball. Welcome to the real world.