Should Brewers be sellers?

[FVBrewerFan]

A post of mine from Transaction/Proposals thread:

 

There's a few moves they could make. See what you can get for Yo, Braun, Ramirez, KRod, Duke, Gorz, Maldy, Overbay, Reynolds, Weeks. Would even listen to a deal for Lohse or Gomez.

 

Hasn't received any reaction yet, probably because people I meant to put this in blue. But it was no mistake, I didn't mean it tongue-and-cheek.

 

This is still a good baseball team. With Henderson and/or Thornburg coming back, Jeffress is the wings, possible trade, etc. they could really bolster the bullpen. If they do that, they sill could make the playoffs.

 

But that is by no means a given. There are 8 legit teams in the NL vying for 5 spots. Even if they do get it, does the Brewers 3 man playoff roatation match up with the other contenders. No. No way. Not even close.

 

Instead of applying a couple bad-aids, trading away depth you don't have in the system to make a playoff run, take advantage of the situation and trade some asssets and build the system up- especially at the higher levels of the system.

 

Some of those guys are easier to move than others. I'm not proposing dealing a Braun, Gomez, Yo, or Lohse just for the sake of doing it. But if someone is willing to part with their top prospect and a couple others for say...Gomez, I would pull the trigger if the deal is right. We need a 1B, 3B, maybe a SS, and two starting pitchers better than anyone in the rotation today. (Peralta and/or Nelson could develop into that role, but they're not there yet.)

 

Bottom line, I would rather have 6 years from a couple/few high level prospects at this point than a small chance of making a legitimate run in the playoffs this year.

[torts]

no.

 

next.

[logan82]

Sellers implies making the MLB team worse and acquiring more prospects. I would love to build the farm but any discussion about trading MLB players while a team is leading the division at the halfway point is crazy talk.

 

Edit: Mind you that I am not sold we are the best team in our division and I don't think our rotation stacks up well with other playoff teams. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in third place at the end of the season.

[pitchleague]

Didn't the White Sox do something like this back in the 90s?

 

"Yeah, we know we're in first place, but we have no chance in the playoffs so we might as well dismantle the team . . . "

 

That's a plan for losers. I understand the desire to build up the farm system, but I'd rather be cheering for a competitive team every year (playoffs or not) than cheering for a 60-win team for 5 years in the HOPE that some of those prospects will pan out.

[Funketown]

No.

 

(Unless they get a comically stupid offer for Gomez or Lucroy. But that ain't happenin.)

[Patrick425]

Got to agree with the other responses so far. Don't know how many times the Brewers have been in first place at the All-Star break, but it has not been many. So, I would have trouble understanding any thoughts of being sellers.

 

Having a bunch of great prospects is no guarantee of a long run of future success. I think it was 7-10 years ago that the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball (I believe they were ranked #1 at least one year by Baseball America?). So far that crop of talent has yielded 2 playoff appearances and no World Series.

 

Strike while the iron is hot because you don't know when the next opportunity is going to come along.

[HiAndTight]

I might consider trading Yo, but that would be the extent of the selling I'd do.

 

Gomez is part of the future. At some point, you have to stop looking at trying to get 6 years out of a guy and be happy with 3 really exceptional years. The fact is you're usually going to spend those first couple years getting that player to perform well, so you'd perpetually be in this cycle.

 

I would have said yes to all of them depending on the return at the start of the season, but the Brewers are in first place, their top contender just lost it's best position player, and while we don't have a legit ace, any of the guys we put out there are capable of dominating a game.

 

I could see Lohse, Peralta, or Garza having an outstanding playoff run. So many things can happen in a short series, I just couldn't get on board with selling right now.

 

Plus, we are really building our system back up right now. We've been very aggressive and are having more success than expected from our young guys.

[Bombers]

no.

 

next.

x2

[guylanderfridancies]

I'm with you..kinda..I think.. Every team should always be looking for improvement in any way. Content is not going to fetch a better team, things will get stagnant, and first place leads will diminish quickly. The SF Giants gm Brian Sabean was quoted saying something like 'EVERYBODY ON OUR TEAM IS ON THE TRADING BLOCK'.. You know why? Cause he wants to win a 3rd world series in a half decade. You gonna argue the guy that brought in two world series rings that his ways aren't smart?...me either.........

 

However, I'm a little confused at what you want to sell for. When you say sell, and in your post mention for some top prospects.. that wont help the ML club today, tomorrow, this year, and maybe not even next year. But then you kind of mention for ML guys too..

 

I'm not for trying to bolster the farm system so much as I am for getting something better for the ML team though. So, yea. Don't sell unless it's for sure going to give us a better chance to win now. But I guess at that point it's not selling, it's trading? So I guess I'm not really with you? maybe like, 22% with you?

[ewitkows]

If they can flip one of the relievers or maybe Yo for a legit 1b then ok. but selling just to sell would be stupid

[davego]

The White Sox's were something like 3 games out and decided to sell. I think this was the Terry Bevington era.

[monty57]

I'm as much for "maximizing your return" and "building the system" as anyone, but no. At a time when the Brewers are leading the division with no significant injuries to their team, while their main division rivals have had crippling injuries, you do not trade away your stars. Especially not with the excuse of "we don't think that we would beat the Dodgers in a playoff series so none of this is worth it."

 

The main goal of the season is to make the playoffs. Once there, anything can happen. The best team doesn't often win the World Series, but the team that doesn't make the playoffs never wins the World Series. I'm not sold that the Brewers are going to make the playoffs, but they're much closer than I would've believed prior to the season. I said that they would need everything to go right, and so far pretty much everything has. Most of their hitters are above league average. Most of their pitchers are doing better than expected. They have played good defense for the most part. They haven't had any injuries, while their opposition has. I don't know if that will all keep up, but I wouldn't throw it all away right now.

[DocLuna7]

Without looking it up I think that ChiSox trade was with the Giants and involved CHI sending Danny Darwin, Roberto Hernandez, and Wilson Alvarez to SF.

[chadomac]

Having a bunch of great prospects is no guarantee of a long run of future success. I think it was 7-10 years ago that the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball (I believe they were ranked #1 at least one year by Baseball America?). So far that crop of talent has yielded 2 playoff appearances and no World Series.

 

Exactly. So many prospects get so much hype and are treated as if they are can't-miss impact MLB players... well it sure seems like most of them don't pan out for one reason or another.

 

A lot of things happen during the progression from the minor leagues to the majors. Development, lack of development, personal problems, injuries... tons of things can go wrong and often do. You also get players that develop into great players that you never expected them to be when they were drafted in the 10th round.

 

What I'm saying is... you can't tell a lot of the time. You can try your best, but highly-touted prospects fairly regularly end up amounting to nothing.

 

You don't discard being in the place the Brewers are in right now. They have a real chance to do something this year, and they will add pieces to try and make a run. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this thread.

[FVBrewerFan]

Why would trading say, Gomez, Yo, and Duke (for example) equal some sort of massive rebuilding for the next 3 years? I don't understand why/how that makes the Brewers a 60 win team with no chance at the playoffs for the next 3 years.

 

Leading the division is fools gold. Making the playoffs is fine, but it's not good enough anymore. If you want to see a legitimate run for a World Series, we need a better rotation. Once again, I'm not talking about trading Braun for 3 single A guys. I'm talking about trading a Braun or Gomez for a top 10 prospect. A "can't miss" stud starter. No such thing as can't miss? True. But also no guarantee Braun will ever be 100% healthy either. Or than Gomez won't become a .230 hitter overnight within the next couple years.

 

But if you guys really believe Yo, Lohse, Garza can win 2-3 playoff series...good luck with that. I much rather put all my chips in a pot I can win.

[FVBrewerFan]

If they can flip one of the relievers or maybe Yo for a legit 1b then ok. but selling just to sell would be stupid

 

Which I specifically said I wouldn't do. "sell just to sell."

[FVBrewerFan]

Having a bunch of great prospects is no guarantee of a long run of future success. I think it was 7-10 years ago that the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball (I believe they were ranked #1 at least one year by Baseball America?). So far that crop of talent has yielded 2 playoff appearances and no World Series.

 

True. But it also produced Fielder, Braun, Hart, Hardy, Yo, and probably someone else I'm forgetting. I guess I would take 6 years of that level of talent for Gomez and Zach Duke.

[Patrick425]

Having a bunch of great prospects is no guarantee of a long run of future success. I think it was 7-10 years ago that the Brewers had arguably the best farm system in baseball (I believe they were ranked #1 at least one year by Baseball America?). So far that crop of talent has yielded 2 playoff appearances and no World Series.

 

True. But it also produced Fielder, Braun, Hart, Hardy, Yo, and probably someone else I'm forgetting. I guess I would take 6 years of that level of talent for Gomez and Zach Duke.

 

 

And...where did all those guys get us and how many of those guys are still on the team?

 

I don't get the logic. To me it's like saying I have a decent chance of having a million dollars at the end of this year, but I could give up that chance to have a possibility of having a million dollars in some future year. Why would you do that?

 

I understand your point is that you are giving up the chance this year so that you will have multiple opportunities in the future. However, no matter who you get, the future is a complete unknown. I know one thing for certain right now, the Brewers are in first place.

[crossface21]

Got to agree with the other responses so far. Don't know how many times the Brewers have been in first place at the All-Star break, but it has not been many. So, I would have trouble understanding any thoughts of being sellers.

 

4 I believe

[markedman5]

A first place team at the break giving up on the season would make the Brewers the laughing stock of baseball......

 

You play to get into contention for the playoffs and then see what happens from there.....You do this because their are no guarantees that you will make the playoffs next year or in the future...can you imagine the players reaction? The season ticket holders and casual fans?

 

please make it stop......

[craigharmann]

Sure, Braun, Garza, Lohse, A-Ram, Go-Go and Lucroy for the entire Astros farm system. Absolutely, I'd do that!

[lcbj68c]

Sellers implies making the MLB team worse and acquiring more prospects. I would love to build the farm but any discussion about trading MLB players while a team is leading the division at the halfway point is crazy talk.

 

Edit: Mind you that I am not sold we are the best team in our division and I don't think our rotation stacks up well with other playoff teams. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up in third place at the end of the season.

 

I completely agree. I think this ballclub played over their heads at .600 for much of the season. I think they are a 80-84 win team fighting for 3rd or 4th place.

 

That said, they are in a position to make the playoffs for the 3rd time in 7 years and I don't think they should make the MLB team worse and squander that opportunity. The Brewers don't need to be the best team on paper to win a world championship and so I'm okay with that. I know a lot of people out there get upset when the best team on paper isn't the champion, but not me. Get to the show and see what happens.

 

But I think they can be sellers of marginal talent in exchange for something of value down the road. If somebody came knocking down the door for one of our relievers in exchange for a Nick Delmonico, I'd be all for it.

[jerichoholicninja]

Can you make thread titles blue instead of red? This thread would make more sense then.

[Fear The Chorizo]

True. But it also produced Fielder, Braun, Hart, Hardy, Yo, and probably someone else I'm forgetting. I guess I would take 6 years of that level of talent for Gomez and Zach Duke.

 

the problem with your argument and logic is every one of the players you mention above that the farm system produced was drafted and developed. In today's game, the very best prospects are rarely traded when they are essentially major league ready. you might go after low minors talent that's a few years away and hope they blossom into stars, but many of the best Brewer prospects in their system are all at those levels making names for themselves. The recent A's/Cubs trade was a somewhat rare occasion because a top 10 prospect landed 1.5 years of a #2 starting pitcher and a 1/2 season of an arm pitching great that could likely lead to a compensatory pick in next year's draft when he signs elsewhere as a FA. Of the former Brewer prospects you listed, Hart and maybe Hardy would've been available to trade before they broke into the bigs. The rest were untradeable assets that teams build around when they were climbing through the Brewer system.

 

Zach Duke isn't bringing talent of that level back in a trade. Gomez would, but how many times do players having MVP-caliber seasons for a team in 1st place get traded at the deadline? My guess would be zero.

 

Yes, the Brewers decided to play their worst baseball leading up to the All Star game...but they are still in 1st place, and have a much better injury situation than their most likely competitors (Cards and Reds), who have key position players and pitchers out significant time. Of all the doom and gloom about how the poor Brewers' farm system is going to cost them over the next few years once the Cardinal and Pirates dynasties take shape and rule the NL for the next 25 years, why in the world would you want to trade quality MLB players away from this Brewers team when they have a legit shot to win a division right now??? Especially because not trading these players by this year's deadline isn't going to limit Melvin from trying to trade some of them over this offseason, when their value may be even higher because he wouldn't be limited to trading these guys only to contending teams.

[umphrey]

This would be kind of similar to what the Marlins did a year and a half ago which caused complete distrust between the fans and the management, made them a national punch line and caused a lot of empty stadiums. Except this would be way worse because the Marlins actually traded away average, over paid players and that's not what the Brewers have right now.