Brewers interested in Seattle RHP Erasmo Ramirez

[Mass Haas]

There's your long guy if so --

[brewmann04]

I am Sure Jack Z will try to fleece Doug.

[pacopete4]

Our luck he's probably going to take Estrada's spot and we'll never see Nelson.

[monty57]

Interesting rumor. Nelson seems like a better option to replace Estrada, and I don't like putting a promising young arm at "long man," as that position can go a long time without pitching and then throw multiple innings several times in a week. That can destroy an arm, so it's best suited for a "has been," or a "never will be." I guess the best scenario would be for Ramirez to take Nelson's spot in AAA while Nelson takes Estrada's spot in Milwaukee with Estrada becoming the long man. That'd be nice depth, but I don't see Melvin making a move for a guy who will go to AAA.

 

More likely if a trade happens is that either (A) Ramirez will get the rotation spot and Nelson will stay in AAA, or (B) Melvin sees him as a RH Will Smith

 

This move would make for an interesting offseason, as Thornburg, Smith, Nelson and Ramirez are all guys who are good enough to be in a MLB rotation, while all five of our current guys are still under team control.

 

Finally, the most important question is: "What would it take to get a 24-year-old rookie with a career minor league ERA in the low 3's?" That would have to take more than Jungmann, so are we looking at giving up one of our best prospects here?

[JohnBriggs12]

"What would it take to get a 24 year old rookie..." Ramirez isn't a rookie and he's carrying a 4.54 ERA in AAA with a 1.4 WHIP. His big league WHIP has gone up every year. We aren't talking elite here by any means. He shot up through the Mariner system after posting nice numbers in rookie and low A ball. Since then, not so much. Seattle's been looking for back end of the rotation stability all year. Estrada might be their target.

 

Ramirez has had 3 major league shots and has regressed. I can see Seattle becoming impatient with him. After this year, he could be out of options as well. I could see an Estrada and a low level arm for Ramirez type deal. No way that would change the plan for promoting Nelson. Ramirez would just replace Nelson's spot in the rotation at Nashville. It would just be a method of getting something for Estrada. Jack Z might see Estrada as a nice number 5 who'd fare better in a less homer friendly environment.

 

To summarize, Seattle has a young pitcher who rose quickly through a system lacking elite arms, had some early major league success, but has regressed since. He's marginal at best. The Brewers have a 5th starter they are ready to replace more based on the potential of his replacement than recent struggles of the incumbent 5th starter. Once he is replaced, his value going forward to the Brewers is dubious, especially entering his final arbitration year. This is a match.

[monty57]

My bad. I just read the "but he's just 24 and sports a 3.24 mark during his minor league career" part of the article and assumed he didn't have much MLB experience. You know what they say about assuming :-)

 

Getting him for Estrada makes sense since they could stick him in the minors or the bullpen this year. When they replace Estrada, they'll probably just want him gone, and if someone else will pay him and give us a player that could have some value, that's probably a good move for the Brewers.

 

The Mariners at 49-41 probably still see themselves as "in it," so our trash could become their treasure. Estrada's still a MLB pitcher, we just have someone much better pounding on the door in AAA.

[bjkrautk]

The Mariners at 49-41 probably still see themselves as "in it," so our trash could become their treasure. Estrada's still a MLB pitcher, we just have someone much better pounding on the door in AAA.

 

Considering the next-best team in the AL for that 2nd wild card is Toronto at 48-44...why wouldn't the Mariners see themselves as "in it?" My only hang-up with the deal is that Estrada would seem to be as good - if not better - an option for the Brewers bullpen this year than Ramirez. He pitched well coming out of the pen back in 2011, which is how he earned the chance to join the rotation. Ramirez is younger and (assumedly) cheaper, and has an option to be sent down to AAA, but I don't know that he makes the Brewers better this year....which is my usual metric for contending teams making a move.

 

Would adding a replacement-level utility player (Willie Bloomquist as the second coming of Craig Counsell) who could back up all of the infield positions improve the bench, in conjunction with the Ramirez swap? (Not sure he's better than the bad options we have, but he equals out the salaries, and targets a position where the Brewers could be looking for an upgrade.)

As a straight player-for-player deal, this one just seems a bit unusual to me; makes me think there has to be another part of any possible move.

[Mass Haas]

Insights from Mariners perspective --

 

Lookout Landing: Entertaining the idea of selling Erasmo Ramirez

[PrinceEatMeat]

I'd probably trade Estrada in some type of deal for Ramirez. Stick Ramirez in the bullpen, or AAA, and call-up Nelson. I agree, that the Brewers probably just want to get rid of Estrada if they pull him from the rotation.

[Mr Southpaw]

Ramirez sounds like A Pena at AAA.

[monty57]

Insights from Mariners perspective --

 

Lookout Landing: Entertaining the idea of selling Erasmo Ramirez

 

From the fan comments, it sounds like they're hoping for a LF. Obviously Davis, Braun and Gomez are safe, but how would everyone feel about trading Gindl for Ramirez? I've always liked Gindl, but with our current OF locked up for years and Haniger and Taylor on the rise, I don't think he has much of a future with the Brewers.

[SRB]

I see absolutely zero to like about Ramirez other than the fact that he had a passable AAA/MLB season a couple years ago. He hasn't even been highly regarded from a prospect standpoint. Why exactly would we trade Marco Estrada (or even somebody like Gindl) for this guy other than the fact that he's relatively young?

 

(Mariners fans want Taylor, Haniger, or Roache? Puh-lease...)

[reillymcshane]

Insights from Mariners perspective --

 

Lookout Landing: Entertaining the idea of selling Erasmo Ramirez

 

From the fan comments, it sounds like they're hoping for a LF. Obviously Davis, Braun and Gomez are safe, but how would everyone feel about trading Gindl for Ramirez? I've always liked Gindl, but with our current OF locked up for years and Haniger and Taylor on the rise, I don't think he has much of a future with the Brewers.

I like Gindl, but I don't see him fitting in as anything other than a backup OF. Therefore, I'd have no problem letting him go for someone who can help us. I just don't know if anyone sees Gindl as anything more than a back up.

[HiAndTight]

Ramirez sounds like A Pena at AAA.

 

 

Pena throws in the upper 90's. Rarmirez throws in the low 90's. With Pena you can at least hold out hope that he becomes something special. With Ramirez it sounds like you'd be hoping he can be a good reliever/back of the rotation type starter.

[monty57]

With Ramirez it sounds like you'd be hoping he can be a good reliever/back of the rotation type starter.

 

That's why I thought someone like Gindl might be the price tag. Both have the talent to be MLB players, but both are stuck in AAA. The Mariners seem to have given up on Ramirez and need OF, the Brewers have a roster that doesn't allow for five OF on the MLB team. I wouldn't want to give up Taylor or Haniger for a guy who throws in the low 90's with no control, but Gindl seems to be in limbo and may never get a shot at the MLB level in Milwaukee.

 

Just my two cents. I've never been good at determining the "price tag" of players in trade.

[Kelbysdaddy]

I like the guys in the comments of the article that are saying jack should target khris davis for this guy. Doug traded one of his most popular players to make room for Davis! Granted, I don't really know much about this erasmo guy, but I really doubt he'd be worth Davis (at least to Doug).

[monty57]

I like the guys in the comments of the article that are saying jack should target khris davis for this guy. Doug traded one of his most popular players to make room for Davis! Granted, I don't really know much about this erasmo guy, but I really doubt he'd be worth Davis (at least to Doug).

 

Heck, we could throw Gomez or Lucroy in to sweeten the deal :-)

 

No, Melvin will not trade his starting left fielder to get a former mid-tier prospect who's "lost it" and whose greatest contribution would be either as a middle reliever/long man, or as AAA insurance depth.

 

But that's part of what makes fan sites fun... almost everyone overvalues their own guys and undervalues the other team's guys.

[brewcrewdue80]

I would gladly take Ramirez for Estrada. That's what I'm waiting for in a deal. Erasmo has that Will Smith, Thornburg, Gorzo Emergency Starting pitching ability that you attempt to turn in to a quality Bullpen arm.

His BB/9 is low in AAA. He's young and a higher velocity FB than Estrada that with another tick or two from the Bullpen may allow him to play up to ability(like Smith)

He's regressed as a Starter and to me Estrada can still provide quality Starts, maybe moreso with Seattle as his home so it can make some sense for Seattle to get a back end #5 SP that is more reliable than what they have, at a cost of now important prospects.

Ramirez has almost been exclusively a SP minors/ML club. 2012 was his rookie year and I'm adding up: 8appearances 12IP 9hits 3R/3ER 1HR 4BBs 7Ks as a RP.

I'm all for that type of pitching from an added RH RP who can go long. Especially because he's younger than Estrada with more Team Control. I hope this scenario plays out.

[HiAndTight]

I would gladly take Ramirez for Estrada. That's what I'm waiting for in a deal. Erasmo has that Will Smith, Thornburg, Gorzo Emergency Starting pitching ability that you attempt to turn in to a quality Bullpen arm.

His BB/9 is low in AAA. He's young and a higher velocity FB than Estrada that with another tick or two from the Bullpen may allow him to play up to ability(like Smith)

He's regressed as a Starter and to me Estrada can still provide quality Starts, maybe moreso with Seattle as his home so it can make some sense for Seattle to get a back end #5 SP that is more reliable than what they have, at a cost of now important prospects.

Ramirez has almost been exclusively a SP minors/ML club. 2012 was his rookie year and I'm adding up: 8appearances 12IP 9hits 3R/3ER 1HR 4BBs 7Ks as a RP.

I'm all for that type of pitching from an added RH RP who can go long. Especially because he's younger than Estrada with more Team Control. I hope this scenario plays out.

 

 

Seattle is the exact type of place where Estrada could still be a useful starting pitcher. And they're a competitive team. I'm not positive how their rotation is lining up right now, the health of Walker/Paxton, two elite young arms is in question. Walker is back I believe and Paxton is starting rehab soon.

 

But he could still be a serviceable starter for them in that park for the time being.