Milwaukee Bucks 2014 - 2015 (part 1)

[Baldkin]

So how is it that the Bucks games seem overwhelmingly full of minorities??

 

Well, that assumption is completely incorrect. I've been to 30ish bucks games over the last 5 years, and never has there been more minorities than white people at a Bucks game. Compared to a Brewers game, yes, a Bucks game is more diverse... but not even close to what you've described.

[coolcool]

So how is it that the Bucks games seem overwhelmingly full of minorities??

 

Well, that assumption is completely incorrect. I've been to 30ish bucks games over the last 5 years, and never has there been more minorities than white people at a Bucks game. Compared to a Brewers game, yes, a Bucks game is more diverse... but not even close to what you've described.

 

Yeah, even with the small sample size, there's not a lot of minorities. But I still don't get what it has to do with anything.

 

As far as capacity - it will probably hold less than the Bradley Center. Arenas in the past were built for the highest capacity possible (which is why the 2001 Bucks crowds were ROCKING). The trend now is to build club seats, lots of boxes, special zones, etc because more money is made on the premium experience seats.

[superfly]

I don't live in Milwaukee and never will, so take this with a grain of salt but I think putting it near Miller Park and creating a sort of "town" around it is where it should go...there are vacant lots there. I don't want anything to do with downtown Milwaukee on the rare occasion I DO go there, I can't be the only person that feels that way.

 

Sure...in comes the people saying it would "revitalize" the city. Oh really? All of those people that love the Milwaukee Bucks but are just waiting for a new arena are going to revitalize it? People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps. Furthermore, why should we build it downtown and then let some parking lot owner charge 20 bucks for parking? Build it out by Miller Park and let the Bucks charge the 20 bucks and keep it for themselves. It's silly.

[trwi7]

Putting it by Miller Park does nothing. Games are in the winter so you can't even tailgate, which is pretty much the only reason why Miller Park works where it is.

[nate82]

I haven't been in Milwaukee for a long time now but when I left the Grand Avenue Mall was a ghost town. Wouldn't it be better to tear down that mall and just place the new arena there?

[TURBO]

The trend now is to build club seats, lots of boxes, special zones, etc because more money is made on the premium experience seats.

 

Pricing out the average Joe is a mistake, and turns fans away from the live experience. If they want to revitalize, they should include more of the average fan, not just cater to the grossly rich... I feel the same way about the Brewers. It is getting just too costly to go to many live games anymore. All the expenses that are involved with one single game that I can comfortably watch on TV are just not worth it to me any longer.

 

Not that I really care about the Bucks, I haven't followed the NBA since Marques Johnson and Sidney Moncrief. I couldn't name a single current Bucks player, and don't even know when they are in season. If I got free tickets, I'd give them away...

[coolcool]

I don't live in Milwaukee and never will, so take this with a grain of salt but I think putting it near Miller Park and creating a sort of "town" around it is where it should go...there are vacant lots there. I don't want anything to do with downtown Milwaukee on the rare occasion I DO go there, I can't be the only person that feels that way.

 

Sure...in comes the people saying it would "revitalize" the city. Oh really? All of those people that love the Milwaukee Bucks but are just waiting for a new arena are going to revitalize it? People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps. Furthermore, why should we build it downtown and then let some parking lot owner charge 20 bucks for parking? Build it out by Miller Park and let the Bucks charge the 20 bucks and keep it for themselves. It's silly.

 

I agree that putting an arena in a certain area won't really "revitalize" anything. The United Center has 2 major tenants that repeatedly fill the stadium, and the area remains one of the worst in pro sports. The BC couldn't keep Legends open across the street.

 

With that being said, since the owners, local politicians will have to mitigate the need for a high sales tax, they'll have to create a TIF district that will raise the most amount of tax revenue. Putting it by Miller Park, while probably more convenient for 90% of fans that attend Bucks games, doesn't really benefit the owners in regards to creating a TIF district or generating profit from tenants connected to the building.

 

Since the city owns two worthless plots of land that don't do anything for the city (Milwaukee arena, Theater), the new arena might be a better sell with repackaging the old BC land as retail/residential and using the torn down theater/arena land for the new arena.

 

As for the parking - I think the city owns the land for most of the public structures. A new arena would certainly have a connected structure, something which was idiotically left out of the existing Bradley Center.

[monkeyman343434]

I don't live in Milwaukee and never will, so take this with a grain of salt but I think putting it near Miller Park and creating a sort of "town" around it is where it should go...there are vacant lots there. I don't want anything to do with downtown Milwaukee on the rare occasion I DO go there, I can't be the only person that feels that way.

 

Sure...in comes the people saying it would "revitalize" the city. Oh really? All of those people that love the Milwaukee Bucks but are just waiting for a new arena are going to revitalize it? People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps. Furthermore, why should we build it downtown and then let some parking lot owner charge 20 bucks for parking? Build it out by Miller Park and let the Bucks charge the 20 bucks and keep it for themselves. It's silly.

 

Wow, I don't even know where to begin.

"People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps." .... what? you think people are leaving NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, Miami, etc etc? Just because Detroit is a mess doesn't mean all other big cities in the country are "decrepid dumps" Big bad downtown Milwaukee scares you too much to go to it?

 

Arenas help revitalize a city, not just by an NBA team, but all of the other types of events that an arena like that can attract, or should try to attract. On non-game nights, they have to do a good job of bringing in concerts and other types of events (Globetrotters, wrestling, rodeos, etc) that can sell out the arena. When you have all sorts of different people coming to the arena for basketball, concerts, and what ever other events they can attract, those people will go out to bars, go out to eat, need places to stay, etc which help build up the area around the arena.

 

Yeah the parking prices are a real pain, but get creative and find a cheaper/alternative way to park and get to the game/event.

 

Thank you for reminding me why I moved away from Wisconsin.

[coolcool]

The trend now is to build club seats, lots of boxes, special zones, etc because more money is made on the premium experience seats.

 

Pricing out the average Joe is a mistake, and turns fans away from the live experience. If they want to revitalize, they should include more of the average fan, not just cater to the grossly rich... I feel the same way about the Brewers. It is getting just too costly to go to many live games anymore. All the expenses that are involved with one single game that I can comfortably watch on TV are just not worth it to me any longer.

 

Not that I really care about the Bucks, I haven't followed the NBA since Marques Johnson and Sidney Moncrief. I couldn't name a single current Bucks player, and don't even know when they are in season. If I got free tickets, I'd give them away...

 

 

Losing turns fans away from the live experience. Having a crappy franchise turns fans away. There's still plenty of opportunity for average Joe Bucks fan to get tickets for cheap - stub hub has games for like $8 in the upper deck. The NBA takes a massive cut from sales, so face value ticket prices are always going to be high for NBA games. The NBA is forcing the Bucks to build a new arena by 2017 precisely because they have no club seats and make almost nothing on each game.

[superfly]

I don't live in Milwaukee and never will, so take this with a grain of salt but I think putting it near Miller Park and creating a sort of "town" around it is where it should go...there are vacant lots there. I don't want anything to do with downtown Milwaukee on the rare occasion I DO go there, I can't be the only person that feels that way.

 

Sure...in comes the people saying it would "revitalize" the city. Oh really? All of those people that love the Milwaukee Bucks but are just waiting for a new arena are going to revitalize it? People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps. Furthermore, why should we build it downtown and then let some parking lot owner charge 20 bucks for parking? Build it out by Miller Park and let the Bucks charge the 20 bucks and keep it for themselves. It's silly.

 

Wow, I don't even know where to begin.

"People don't gravitate towards cities, that's why the majority of them are decrepid dumps." .... what? you think people are leaving NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, Miami, etc etc? Just because Detroit is a mess doesn't mean all other big cities in the country are "decrepid dumps" Big bad downtown Milwaukee scares you too much to go to it?

 

Arenas help revitalize a city, not just by an NBA team, but all of the other types of events that an arena like that can attract, or should try to attract. On non-game nights, they have to do a good job of bringing in concerts and other types of events (Globetrotters, wrestling, rodeos, etc) that can sell out the arena. When you have all sorts of different people coming to the arena for basketball, concerts, and what ever other events they can attract, those people will go out to bars, go out to eat, need places to stay, etc which help build up the area around the arena.

 

Yeah the parking prices are a real pain, but get creative and find a cheaper/alternative way to park and get to the game/event.

 

Thank you for reminding me why I moved away from Wisconsin.

 

Nice try at the thinly veiled jab at Wisconsin residents. Too bad I don't even live in Wisconsin. LOL.

 

Back to the Bucks. Where do families live? They don't live in downtown Milwaukee, they live in the suburbs. Thus, it is much more convenient for Mom and Dad to take their children to a suburban arena like Miller Park/new BC than to load them up and take them into the city, where games frequently end at 10-11pm at night. It doesn't scare me, but many parents in the back of their mind are thinking about safety that time of night. We do want these kinds of people as the backbone of our team...don't we? I know when I go to a Timberwolves game I'm watching my back when I get out of there.

 

Which is why I proposed a "town" being built around Miller Park/new BC. Something innovative and revolutionary. I've seen others write about it in the past, so I am not the only one. We wanted Attanasio to get involved with the Bucks...well lets get on it. Edens and Lasry should call him up and see if he is interested in constructing this "idea" of a sports town and making it become a reality. Build a hotel, build restaurants, a mall etc. Make it our own unique little town that is self sustaining. Sure as hell is more appealing to the taxpayers than asking for "MOAR MONEY FOR THE CITY."

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I've been to 1 Bucks game since 2001, and if the Bucks arena is downtown I will not go either. The only interest I have to go downtown is for the yearly On Deck event, and if there is a concert I really want to see. If the arena is built by Miller Park I can see myself going to a few games. I don't think the winter would stop some people from tailgaiting. It wouldn't stop me. Look at the Brewers artic tailgate where people will camp out for days.

[paul253]

So how is it that the Bucks games seem overwhelmingly full of minorities??

 

I know some people already commented on this but I want to touch on it too because I've worked security at a lot of Bucks games the past few years. In the lower bowl you'll see more higher class people because the tickets are more expensive. I can only assume that you are referring to the upper level. So the answer to your question is this. With the Bucks doing so poorly and attendance so low, the team gives A LOT of tickets to the Boys and Girls club. Those tickets end up going almost exclusively to minority teenagers. Personally I can say we have had a lot of problems with them as SOME of them don't come to watch the games. They come to hang out and screw around. Almost none of them have adult chaperones either. Now I'll fully admit perhaps since I do security and gravitate towards the problems they may seem worse to me than they actually are. I'm just giving you my perspective.

 

As far as revitalizing the city. I think downtown is actually gone through quite the revitalization already....at least the east side of it. The west side lags behind. But every weekend night there are tens of thousands of people down there at the bars. There are a crap load of apartments and condos that have been built in the past few years, with more to come. New skyscrapers are going up as well. Where they are really lagging is the western end of downtown, which is where the BC is. I think building middle and upper class apartments will actually do a lot more to revitalize that side than a new arena would. With apartments and condos, people are ALWAYS there, as opposed to being there three hours at a time for an event. With more people comes more things people want to live by....restaurants, bars, retail, etc. This idea that a new arena will automatically revitalize downtown is absurd. It certainly COULD help, but it won't automatically help. Downtown needs more hotels, more middle/upper class apartments (especially west of the river) and an expanded convention center. It would also help to completely tear down the Grand Ave and allow the new Silk club to open somewhere. I've only been to a strip club one time in my life and have no plans to ever go again, but I think it's a joke they won't allow Silk to open a club downtown. As much as they don't want to admit it, people will go downtown to go there.

 

An arena in the Valley by Miller Park could work.....but this is Milwaukee. Our leaders are idiots and look out for themselves first and foremost. If you opened up a ton of land east of the park and built a mini-city, full of bars, restaurants, hotels, condos, and retail (think Bayshore with less retail and more entertainment and residential) in between Miller Park and the new arena I think it could really work. I'd love to see a Wisconsin sports museum open up down there. Somehow get the Packers involved as we all know they are far and away the most popular Wisconsin team. They seem insistent on building a street car.....how about building it from a new downtown station to a station by Miller Park? There are a lot of opportunities available but in my entire life here in Milwaukee I just haven't seen that kind of outside the box thinking that makes me believe this is even remotely possible. What's going to happen is there are going to build it near where the BC is and people are going to complain about having to pay a small tax to build and maintain it.

[davego]

I live 5 hours away. A new BC by Miller Park would be great for me. Not that it's all about me...

[Outlander]

Having the Bucks play in the Miller Park area is a pretty bad idea. There isn't really a debate if it will go in the downtown area, just where in the downtown area.

[adamb100]

It would be a nightmare for traffic too when there is a Bucks and Brewers game going on roughly the same time.

[paul253]

Having the Bucks play in the Miller Park area is a pretty bad idea. There isn't really a debate if it will go in the downtown area, just where in the downtown area.

 

It would be a nightmare for traffic too when there is a Bucks and Brewers game going on roughly the same time.

 

It would be a fine idea if the city is willing to invest in an entire project instead of just plopping an arena down there. There would have to be some major road upgrades but if you used Miller Park and the new arena as bookends for an entire sports and entertainment district it could be a huge draw. I agree is it 100% going downtown but just the fact that the Menomonee Valley isn't even being considered bothers me. Our city leaders have zero vision. They can't even imagine building something like St Louis built around their ballpark. They think if they put up an arena downtown everyone will be falling all over each other trying to open their development nearby.

 

As far as the traffic....yeah it would be bad if/when both the Bucks and Brewers play. But considering that is what, 3 maybe 4 times a year, that shouldn't even be a factor.

[Baldkin]

Why can't they have the same sort of vision for downtown? That is EXACTLY what the new owners are trying to do. This idea that it needs to be put in the dump of an area between Poto and Miller Park is just silly.

 

Why can't it go downtown?

 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/bucks-owners-hope-to-pick-site-for-new-arena-by-years-end-b99352988z1-275347641.html

 

Edens and Lasry said their project will be more than just an arena. In general, sports economists agree that new arenas without any additional development often fail. The favorable alternative in many cases is finding an arena site and bringing in more development that turns the site into a destination for people to live, work and play.

 

"It's more of a vision for lifestyle and attractiveness to people than it is some kind of simplistic business model," Edens said.

 

Lasry said he and Edens had been looking at how other cities have married new arenas with new development. One such city is Sacramento, where arena boosters have broken ground for a new downtown arena. The entire development is expected to include office space, more retail, hundreds of new residential units and up to 250 hotel rooms.

 

"When we bought the team, we knew we had to build an arena," Lasry said. "Part of it is for us. But how do we do it in the best interests of the state? It's a whole development. How do we do it with the real estate? For us we have to be pretty open about it."

[nate82]

Having the Bucks play in the Miller Park area is a pretty bad idea. There isn't really a debate if it will go in the downtown area, just where in the downtown area.

 

It would be a nightmare for traffic too when there is a Bucks and Brewers game going on roughly the same time.

 

It would be a fine idea if the city is willing to invest in an entire project instead of just plopping an arena down there. There would have to be some major road upgrades but if you used Miller Park and the new arena as bookends for an entire sports and entertainment district it could be a huge draw. I agree is it 100% going downtown but just the fact that the Menomonee Valley isn't even being considered bothers me. Our city leaders have zero vision. They can't even imagine building something like St Louis built around their ballpark. They think if they put up an arena downtown everyone will be falling all over each other trying to open their development nearby.

 

As far as the traffic....yeah it would be bad if/when both the Bucks and Brewers play. But considering that is what, 3 maybe 4 times a year, that shouldn't even be a factor.

 

Its not like this hasn't been done before.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/U.S+Airways+Center/@33.4459,-112.071211,634m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b121f8913ad39:0x8093f61e7b03fd19

 

Chase Field and the US Airways Center are almost on top of each other. They are about 1,300 feet apart actually so it could work.

[paul253]

Why can't they have the same sort of vision for downtown? That is EXACTLY what the new owners are trying to do. This idea that it needs to be put in the dump of an area between Poto and Miller Park is just silly.

 

Why can't it go downtown?

 

But where are you going to have the room to build a major entertainment district like you would in the Menomonee Valley? Talk about a dump of an area look at what's around the most likely downtown landing spot for an arena (the area currently used by the theater and Cell) You have a large MATC building right there. You have the Police Administration Building right there. The County Courthouse, County Jail and a minimum security state prison are three blocks away. The Medical Examiner's office is two blocks away on Highland Ave. And Kitty corner to the northwest corner of the development area is a very large housing project neighborhood (Hillside Terrace) that is littered with crime. None of that is going away, unlike in the valley where all the old factories and railroad tracks can simply be torn down and replaced.

 

Look I agree....the arena is going downtown. But if your goal is to build a sports/entertainment district your best bet is to build it in the Menomonee Valley. There is more room for development and it would incorporate Miller Park so you can have a year long crowd coming as opposed to an arena where almost all of the events occur when it is cold outside. By limiting yourself to downtown, and more specifically the dilapidated west side of downtown, you are really handicapping your ability to make a successful entertainment district.

[Baldkin]

There is plenty of room to add an entertainment district, you don't need 3 square miles of land to add restaurants, an indoor beer garden or whatever else they may want to put in there. You aren't building an amusement park.

 

This isn't something that is going to take up 10 city blocks. The Arena will take up 1-1.5, where everything additional will take up 2-3. There is plenty of space there, especially if they can take over the space currently occupied by the Journal Sentinal's almost vacant building.

 

That would tie the arena to the riverwalk (through Pere Marquette park) and Old World 3rd street.

 

Again, it's a question of if it can be done right. I think the new owners realize this, and realize what it will take to get it done -- money, money, money and money.

[fondybrewfan]

My early prediction for the starting lineup is this. Not sure who plays what position but I imagine Kidd will be creative.

 

Knight

Parker

Giannis

Sanders

Marshall

 

Ersan, Bayless, Henson, Dudley, and Middleton the main guys off of the bench.

 

It seems like a fairly deep team this year and the starting lineup could go a lot of ways. I could see Dudley or Henson definitely in the starting lineup as well.

[Baldkin]

My early prediction for the starting lineup is this. Not sure who plays what position but I imagine Kidd will be creative.

 

Knight

Parker

Giannis

Sanders

Marshall

 

Ersan, Bayless, Henson, Dudley, and Middleton the main guys off of the bench.

 

It seems like a fairly deep team this year and the starting lineup could go a lot of ways. I could see Dudley or Henson definitely in the starting lineup as well.

 

I don't think they have depth. They have a lot of mediocre players who are all about the same skill level. I hope it doesn't cause problems this year.

 

I see the lineup as Knight, Middleton, Giannis, Parker and Sanders. I think Middleton has a big breakout year playing in an offense that actually utilizes the 3 point shot -- and is actually an offense.

[FVBrewerFan]

I see it both ways. Downtown would be nice (and I realize also that's where it's going) but the Valley could have worked.

 

Unfortunately, the "powers that be" really messed up a long term plan. Now, we're stuck with attractions scattered everywhere. The Zoo, State Fair Park, Miller PArk, Poto, Downtown/ new arena, Summerfest. Can you imagine how cool it could have been to have all or most of these venues together in one entertainment district? But alas, that ship has sailed.

[fondybrewfan]

Maybe depth was the wrong word; they just have a lot of options for a starting lineup. Interchangeable parts so to speak. Giannis and Parker should really be the only locks for the starting rotation; after that you could pick from 6 or 7 guys.

[FVBrewerFan]

My early prediction for the starting lineup is this. Not sure who plays what position but I imagine Kidd will be creative.

 

Actually, it really doesn't matter who starts. I'll be curious to see who is on the floor at the end of games, and how that changes as the season goes on. I also don't think either Giannis or Parker are locks to start by the way. Sanders is the only lock to start, and probably Knight. (Although I would WANT to see Knight be the 6th man.)