Milwaukee Bucks 2014 - 2015 (part 1)

[Baldkin]

I can't get fired up about any plan without seeing an architectural drawing of the building. What are they going to put in it? Where will it be located? What do they expect to draw other than basketball and concerts?

 

How is this different from any other NBA arena? How much will seats cost? Will Milwaukee support a team at those prices? What will the building look like?

 

I'm not opposed to them building a world class facility, and to put some of that on the public, but it has to be awesome to draw any interest outside of the Milwaukee area.

 

You'll get drawings as soon as they have finalized the site. They need to secure funding of the arena before they go and pay exorbitant amounts of money to secure a site.

 

The owners simply aren't going to negotiate against themselves by leaking information early, especially with the wonderful Journal Sentinal trying to extort them to get to pay through the nose to secure their primary site.

[jerichoholicninja]

On the surface this seems like an innovative idea that will really minimize the effect on the taxpayer. However, this is politics and business working together so in some way the taxpayers are going to end up on the hook for more than is being publicized.

[FVBrewerFan]

I won't get excited until the legislature passes this. That is by no means a slam dunk, pardon the pun.

[patrickgpe]

I won't get excited until the legislature passes this. That is by no means a slam dunk, pardon the pun.

 

 

This really comes down to if Milwaukee legislatures will support the plan or not. Even though the legislature is Republican and would in theory vote Yes on any Walker bill, I don't see why a representative from Eau Claire would vote for something that benefits Milwaukee if the Milwaukee legislature won't support it.

[davego]

This plan protects the public from future liabity. It does stunt a revenue stream, but doesn't put the state on the hook for any future liability. I hate Scott Walker like most public employees, but I'll give him credit on the one. Of course, I'm a biased Bucks fan.

[BuckyBrewer61]

It does stunt a revenue stream.

 

It does stunt a revenue stream, but at the same time without a solution that revenue stream doesn't exist. Let's face it, if there's no new arena by 2017, Giannis and Jabari will be Seattle Supersonics - then none of this money exists in the first place, not even the $6+mil that is being held steady in the budget going forward. Seems like a pretty creative and smart plan to me.

[davego]

Oh, don't misunderstand, Bucky. I support the plan. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

 

I see why some might not, but given the current world-view of the decision-makers, I'm quite pleased with this plan.

[fondybrewfan]

$220 Million really isn't a lot of money either. Private sources contributing well over 50% of the project cost certainly should mean something when this is debated in the legislature. This new arena will very likely have no financial impact on anyone in the state and Milwaukee hopefully benefits substantially. I still have my doubts that's this arena will spur some kind of downtown renewal but its at least worth a shot. I haven't gone to a Bucks game in ages but I could have said the same thing about the Brewers when Miller Park was built. This could change that; obviously along with continued improvement on the court.

[tmwiese55]

I would be shocked if they don't find a way to work this out. With the amount of money being kicked in by Kohl and the new owners already it shouldn't be too difficult to find the rest. This plan by Walker's team seems like a great idea and with his ties to Milwaukee have to think he'll make it a point not to let them leave on his watch. Also, what about the old Miller Park tax? If I remember correctly that tax never went away like it was supposed to but instead got used for funding other things. What about using that here?

[FVBrewerFan]

I won't get excited until the legislature passes this. That is by no means a slam dunk, pardon the pun.

 

 

This really comes down to if Milwaukee legislatures will support the plan or not. Even though the legislature is Republican and would in theory vote Yes on any Walker bill, I don't see why a representative from Eau Claire would vote for something that benefits Milwaukee if the Milwaukee legislature won't support it.

 

Yes, I don't see this being voted on along party lines. This is not going to be easy at all to pass. Remember Miller Park and what a battle that was. Yes, that included a sales tax but the Brewers also had much wider appeal across the state that the Bucks do.

[paul253]

If I remember correctly that tax never went away like it was supposed to but instead got used for funding other things. What about using that here?

The sales tax is still being used to pay for Miller Park. There is no way the 5 affected counties, especially Waukesha and Ozaukee, would allow it to continue for something else when the stadium is paid off.

 

This is not going to be easy at all to pass. Remember Miller Park and what a battle that was.

What people need to understand is that this money is gone either way. It is income taxes being paid by the players who play here. Without a new arena there won't be any players playing here. Without players playing here there is no income tax money. So either you use the money to fund a new arena or you lose the money altogether when the Bucks leave.....and they will leave. It's not like the average Joe from Eau Claire or Rhinelander is going to have to fork over tax money so the Bucks can have a new arena. That is the major difference between this and the Miller Park tax.

[BuckyBrewer61]

This is not going to be easy at all to pass. Remember Miller Park and what a battle that was. Yes, that included a sales tax but the Brewers also had much wider appeal across the state that the Bucks do.

 

I guess I have a hard time seeing what would be so difficult to pass about this outside of politics given the lack of a tax. It's taking and investing money from a pool that, if not harvested, won't exist in the first place because the Bucks will almost assuredly be gone. Regardless of whether or not you're a Bucks fan, that means $6million+ annually from the state budget gone for years to come, plus that money going into the budget years down the line will increase exponentially once the arena is paid off. I'm the furthest thing from a financial whiz, but to me that's a good thing no matter what part of the state you're from and whether or not you'll ever watch a Bucks game again.

 

If they were proposing this with the same numbers to build a new arena for a professional ice dancing team in Rice Lake, I'd be 100% for it.

[tmwiese55]

found this on the tax:

Miller Park officials had planned on ending a five-county 0.1 percent sales tax by 2018, but sluggish sales tax collections and flat investment returns have resulted in moving that projection to 2020.

Initially, the sales tax was supposed to end by 2014, but stadium district officials delayed the sunset-estimate in 2012 to a 2018 time frame after several factors hurt tax collections. The recession curtailed consumer spending, the financial crisis reduced investment returns and there has been a huge increase in online purchases that don’t include sales tax.

---

I guess what I'm thinking of is the conservative view that once a tax gets put in, it never goes away. So they've already stretched it out but, albeit with a good excuse as to why. Could be feasible to propose that once this ends for MP in 2018 or 2020 that it gets flipped to the bucks stadium. Most people would probably be more ok with that than to have it go on forever without a clear reason why.

 

Overall I agree that it will all be a fight throughout, but considering so much money is already promised by Kohl and the new owners I'd be surprised if they don't find a way. Also, when looking up the tax thing I saw they received 40 MIL from Miller for naming right through 2020. Bucks should be able to get a comparable amount of money from a sponsor like BMO, unless they already told Kohl they'd put his name on it.

 

Also, the NBA is printing money right now. Why can't they just give teams very low interest loans or some kind of help to fill gaps in funding like this.

[fondybrewfan]

NFL does that; the Packers received a big amount from NFL corporate to help finance the latest Lambeau Field renovation.

[jerichoholicninja]

NFL does that; the Packers received a big amount from NFL corporate to help finance the latest Lambeau Field renovation.

 

Yes and no. I believe tax payers are paying for over half of the Vikings new stadium. The Packers are unique being that they don't have a billionaire owner to invest in the team.

[FVBrewerFan]

This is not going to be easy at all to pass. Remember Miller Park and what a battle that was. Yes, that included a sales tax but the Brewers also had much wider appeal across the state that the Bucks do.

 

I guess I have a hard time seeing what would be so difficult to pass about this outside of politics given the lack of a tax.

 

 

Because you're looking at this rationally. Nothing rational ever happens in politics. You have legislators in Racine/Kenosha cheesed off about the casino. Think they'll easily jump on board and pass this for Walker? Not to mention all the Dems whose beefs with him go way back.

 

Then add upstate legislators that see nothing in it for them, other than having to explain this constantly to the folks. We all have to remember most people don't pay attention to details. They hear state helping the Bucks, and that's all they know or want to know.

 

So you're not just dealing with the reality of no new taxes, you're dealing perception.

[LouisEly]

No Parker, no Ilyasova, no Pachulia, no Sanders, no Marshall, no problem. At Orlando, at Miami, home against Portland, and had a chance to win at San Antonio.

 

Not championship caliber, but coming together quite nicely.

[Jenkins5]

Honestly, at this point, I would not be shocked if Bucks make a Cinderella run. They are in the East soooo anything is possible!They can play with and beat anyone, any given night. Just imagine if they were healthy? Hopefully they can find a trade partner to move up or add an additional 1st round pick in June to keep youth movement moving forward. Like I knew coming in, Kidd is an excel coach and teacher and he has taken a team most of us thought would be improved but still a losing team into a maybe 4-6 seed team in the East.

 

Only complaint I have had all season is the extremely low amount of playing time Henson has had compared to the high amount of minutes he should be playing.

[GAME05]

Is a sign-and-trade of Knight in the offseason a possibility? And what would a deal like that usually land in return? Does OJ Mayo have any trade value with his contract? And is a FA signing of a quality player quite as far-fetched as it used to be since a new arena is just a vote away and we have a coach whom players seem to like playing for? And if we're targeting a PG or defensive Center in the draft but want to move up to get a more impact one, could that realistically be accomplished? As much as I'd like to see someone like Mudiay on the team, most mocks have him going #2, and we certainly don't have what Minnesota gave up to get a #1.

[Jenkins5]

I'd hate a sign and trade and that will really set the Bucks back. Knight has been the heart and soul of this team and youth movement. He's still only 23 and he has proved enough to be part of the future. He works way too hard and has continued to improve every season. Working with Kidd will only make him continue to blossom

[trwi7]

Honestly, at this point, I would not be shocked if Bucks make a Cinderella run. They are in the East soooo anything is possible!They can play with and beat anyone, any given night. Just imagine if they were healthy? Hopefully they can find a trade partner to move up or add an additional 1st round pick in June to keep youth movement moving forward. Like I knew coming in, Kidd is an excel coach and teacher and he has taken a team most of us thought would be improved but still a losing team into a maybe 4-6 seed team in the East.

 

Only complaint I have had all season is the extremely low amount of playing time Henson has had compared to the high amount of minutes he should be playing.

 

They're 6-15 against teams over .500.

[LouisEly]

It takes time to learn how to win. Look at OKC - they had Durant, Westbrook, and Harden and it wasn't until their third year of playing together that they reached the finals. Durant & Westbrook's first year of playing together they didn't even make the playoffs, and the first year that all three were together the got bounced in the first round. Many of those losses to teams over 500 was during their tough December schedule when they were still learning Kidd's system and learning to play with each other.

 

The Bucks are also one of only three teams to win at Atlanta... and Atlanta hasn't lost since.

[fondybrewfan]

The Bucks show flashes of being able to beat any team and they have several really nice wins. However they have struggled mightily against both Chicago and Toronto who could be potential 1st round opponents. Right now it would be Washington. I think the Bucks could do what they did a couple years back and push there 1st round opponent to a 6 or 7 game series; just not sure they can actually win a series. Washington probably would be the best match up for the Bucks among Washington, Chicago, Toronto, and Cleveland.

 

Also it is becoming obvious that they need to keep Knight around next year; he has really blossomed into a good PG. For next year they could really use a good center in the draft to push Zaza and Sanders.

[homer]

I would guess that most .500 teams beat bad teams and lose to good teams.

[Jenkins5]

I would guess that most .500 teams beat bad teams and lose to good teams.

 

Really like someone before just said, it takes awhile to learn to win. Most of these guys were on the worse Bucks team in history and the worst team in NBA last year....They were so bad they finished worse than a team that was actually trying to lose every game last year. That is the difference this season. They have played most of the top teams in NBA down to the wire and have just fell short. Any given night they can beat any team. They have beat good teams. I am actual more disappointed to that fact they have lost to bad teams more than they should have.

 

This team is beat up but they keep battling. This team is a year or 2 away from being a big player in the East.