New Top 20

[Mr Southpaw]

Is it time to do another Top 20? The Rookie Leagues have started and everyone is playing.

[Jenkins5]

Was thinking same thing today ha. A lot of movement in this new one I predict. Arcia, Coulter, Taylor should all be in a tight race for #2. Kodi, Monte, Lara and Gatewood all are available for the list now. Jorge Lopez has finally really started to come on as a prospect now. The rising of Brandon Diaz. Think this one will be very interesting and look way strong than previous ones!

[SRB]

Was thinking same thing today ha. A lot of movement in this new one I predict. Arcia, Coulter, Taylor should all be in a tight race for #2. Kodi, Monte, Lara and Gatewood all are available for the list now. Jorge Lopez has finally really started to come on as a prospect now. The rising of Brandon Diaz. Think this one will be very interesting and look way strong than previous ones!

 

I would rank them:

 

1) Nelson

2) Medeiros

3) Gatewood

4) Harrison

5) Arcia

6) Lara

7) Taylor

8) Coulter

[fondybrewfan]

I would give it another couple weeks; Medeiros hasn't even pitched yet. I know I shouldn't rank on small sample size but neither Lara or Medeiros have even suited it up yet. Maybe just wait until the end of July.

[umphrey]

Clint Coulter got picked just as high as those guys and he's been mashing since then for the most part. Same story with Taylor. The rookies are 5-6-7-8 for me, probably Lara-Harrison-Medeiros-Gatewood.

[reillymcshane]

The plan is to do another top 20 (or 25) in early August. We'll let the new picks get a little more time under their belts, and see if the trading deadline affects things.

[WV Brew]

I would presume that Medeiros will not pitch much this year. All those showcases and so forth. The Brewers will want to limit him while getting his feet wet. There's plenty of time.

[HiAndTight]

Was thinking same thing today ha. A lot of movement in this new one I predict. Arcia, Coulter, Taylor should all be in a tight race for #2. Kodi, Monte, Lara and Gatewood all are available for the list now. Jorge Lopez has finally really started to come on as a prospect now. The rising of Brandon Diaz. Think this one will be very interesting and look way strong than previous ones!

 

I would rank them:

 

1) Nelson

2) Medeiros

3) Gatewood

4) Harrison

5) Arcia

6) Lara

7) Taylor

8) Coulter

 

Wow...this is just each person's opinion based on limited information(unless there is someone who somehow gets to watch all of these guys play) but I just do NOT get the Coulter ranking. I personally think he's closer to Nelson than he is to anyone not named Arcia.

 

6'3 220, big time power, great plate discipline, incredibly talented pure athlete, huge arm. He's struggled a bit the last month or so, but you're still talking about a 20 year old kid with a .400 OBP, .500 SLG and someone who could be an elite defensive catcher. He's either going to be a really good catcher IMO or he's not going to stick there. My reason for that is he can catch and throw really well. Using the scouting scale I'd rate his throwing arm at about a 65. Maybe a 70. He's really agile. His problem right now is just getting down and blocking balls from time to time. Last year he had a problem with his hands. He didn't have very soft hands when receiving the ball. That seems to have improved a great deal.

 

So the one area he really struggles is the easiest area for a catcher to improve. It's just muscle memory and repetition. And he's extremely dedicated to sticking behind the plate.

 

As a former 1st rounder who's played pretty damn well thus far, I can't drop him behind 3 18 year old rookies who haven't played yet, and a 16 year old kid. I see the argument for Arcia, but just as a cold spell with Coulter isn't going to make me drop him, Arcia's hot spell hasn't bumped him above Coulter or Nelson yet for me (though it's incredibly encouraging to see him raking with his already impressive defensive ability).

 

 

1-Nelson

1a-Coulter-Obviously I'm a big fan.

3-Arcia

4-Taylor- Obviously a toolsy player

5-Devin Williams- Projectable 19 year old with over a K per IP and his BB's are down this year a big. 3 good starts.

6-Jorge Lopez-Really looks like he's turned the corner.

7-Harrison-Just gets the early nod for his BB ratio, albeit a small sample size, but was supposed to be extremely raw.

8-Kodi Medeiros- Hoping there is something to the Sale comp and his slider is as dominant as advertised.

9-Lara-Obviously as unproven as you can get, but arguably the top international FA should land in the top 10

10-Gatewood

11-Taylor Williams- I've seen him a few times. Looks like he could be really effective late inning reliever

12-Demuth- Was arguably the best hitter at Indiana, yet fell to us in the 4th round while the Cubs took his teammate 4th.

13-Haniger- Still a big fan, but was hoping for more of a breakout year. Though he's been pretty solid.

14-Yadiel Rivera- Very good defender. Hope the bat comes around. I think he could add some power with his frame. Could be a ideal utility guy in the near future and possibly even part of a loose platoon with Gennett. His splits vs lefties (317.338/.508) are encouraging as they were in 2012.

15-Hellweg- Yeah, he's had TJ, but during recovery pitchers often place more of an emphasis on repeating their delivery which hopefully improves his control. Hard to give up on a 6'9 pitcher who throws in the upper 90's.

16-Bradley- Has come along pretty slowly, but lefties often do. Control was outstanding in BC, but has been awful in AA.

17-Jungman- Hasn't really shown signs of the guy who could hit the upper 90's and was the most or one of the most advanced pitchers out of Texas, but gets GB's and should be nice long reliever, back end type guy.

18-Victor Roache-HUGE power, but looks as though he's lost at the plate right now. Still too much talent to give up on yet.

19-Tyler Cravy- Hard to ignore his performance since he moved back into the rotation despite average stuff.

20-Tucker Delmanico-Neither Newhaus or Delmonico have shown much this year, but both 3rd basemen have the tools to perform much better.

 

 

I'm sure this will differ greatly from others, but it's how I like them.

 

I DO believe the Brewers farm system is going to see the biggest jump in rankings from different sites this off-season, even sans Nelson. A LOT of really impressive young talent with a lot of high ceilings. I think there are several guys in this system with the potential to be well above average regulars, a couple with the upside to be an all star caliber player like Coulter, Arcia, the trio of position players drafted/signed this year, as well as several pitchers who are really breaking out this year who could be top 100-150 prospects like Lopez, Williams, Mereiros. But the strength of our system right now might be having a lot of those guys who can fill roles. Good 4-5 starters like Bradley, Jungman, Cravy, utility players like Rivera, a number of hard throwing relievers. The types of players we had to go out and trade for when we made our runs in 2008 and '11. And the only guy I see graduating from this list is Nelson next year.

 

By the way, I have no idea where to place Diaz at the moment. One publication had him as a top 100 prospect going INTO this season. That may be a huge omission on my part, and then I don't know what to do with Demuth. I know he should be hitting in rookie ball, but he's been dominant.

[SRB]

HiAndTight, I just don't think any pre-draft prospects in the Brewers system are very elite. Which isn't to say that somebody like Devin Williams or even Brandon Diaz couldn't have a huge breakout. The only reason I consider Nelson #1 is because of his proximity to being a decent major league pitcher.

 

I haven't heard anything suggesting Coulter can reasonably be expected to be an "elite defensive catcher," it seems like he might have to move to 1B at best, and coming into the season he wasn't even ranked in the BA Top 10 Brewers prospects. Granted, Haudricourt has a role in writing that list, but it's still based on conversations with scouts. Coulter has cooled off substantially at Wisconsin and even though his numbers on the season are still great (though his cumulative A-ball numbers between 2013-14 are not as amazing), I feel like you need to really crush the ball when you're playing half your games at DH.

 

Arcia/Taylor get the nod over Coulter because they have plus defensive potential and are holding their own offensively. Still, the latest draft haul (plus Lara) has much higher potential in my mind until proven otherwise. I think Jim Callis said offhandedly that all three draftees would rank ahead of anybody else in the Brewers system, so I don't think my rankings are that unreasonable.

[guylanderfridancies]

I don't think Nelson should be included in any more prospects list. He's the best pitcher in the PCL and as soon as his super 2 status is clear, he will be in the bigs for good.

[HiAndTight]

HiAndTight, I just don't think any pre-draft prospects in the Brewers system are very elite. Which isn't to say that somebody like Devin Williams or even Brandon Diaz couldn't have a huge breakout. The only reason I consider Nelson #1 is because of his proximity to being a decent major league pitcher.

 

I haven't heard anything suggesting Coulter can reasonably be expected to be an "elite defensive catcher," it seems like he might have to move to 1B at best, and coming into the season he wasn't even ranked in the BA Top 10 Brewers prospects. Granted, Haudricourt has a role in writing that list, but it's still based on conversations with scouts. Coulter has cooled off substantially at Wisconsin and even though his numbers on the season are still great (though his cumulative A-ball numbers between 2013-14 are not as amazing), I feel like you need to really crush the ball when you're playing half your games at DH.

 

Arcia/Taylor get the nod over Coulter because they have plus defensive potential and are holding their own offensively. Still, the latest draft haul (plus Lara) has much higher potential in my mind until proven otherwise. I think Jim Callis said offhandedly that all three draftees would rank ahead of anybody else in the Brewers system, so I don't think my rankings are that unreasonable.

 

 

I don't follow what you mean by, "he might have to move to 1B AT BEST?" There is no world in which that is a "best case," scenario for Coulter. He's not just a big plodding guy. He's an plus athlete. He would almost certainly move to 3rd, RF or LF before 1st base unless it was based on an organizational need. Keep in mind these scouting reports you're citing are rating a kid off of how he performed at age 19 coming out of HS. The same ones that said Lucroy's defense may hold him back and at best he would be a backup catcher. I believe BA Callis said Weeks was a 40/40 type player. Sickels(IIRC) said Lawrie's upside was that of Rogers Hornsby.

 

And Coulter is "crushing," the ball, especially for a 20 year old kid(who by the way, has played 118 games at C and 32 at DH). I don't know what you expect out of the kid, but he's doing pretty damn well. He's performing similarly at A ball to what Fielder did. Even if the kid does have to move out from behind the plate, and by the way, it seems as though it's a prerequisite to throw in something when writing up a scouting report about how whatever prospect that is being discussed MIGHT have to move off his position at increasingly and ridiculously young ages. But even if he does, his bat should play just about anywhere.

 

As for Lara, I just believe ranking him ahead of Coulter is akin to ranking Rolando Pascual ahead of Gallardo in 2006, or just as they did a couple of years ago, ranking Jungman and Bradley ahead of Peralta. Ranking high profile signings/draft picks ahead of other players who were highly touted, but have actually produced. Prospect rankings are interesting, but as many scouts will even admit, they're ranking guys based on what someone else has said about a player or from one game. This is how Mark Rogers was ranked 44th in 2005 despite walking 6.6 per 9 and posting a ERA of 5.00 in A ball at 20 years of age. I'll admit to be bullish on Coulter as I've seen him play for a few years not( prior to being drafted a couple times and several times in Appleton). So I think as splashy as the signing of Lara is, and I do love that signing(along with the top 3 picks) I just don't agree with placing them above a former 1st rounder who's performed very well.

 

I'll be surprised if Coulter isn't a top 100 prospect after this season, but I guess we shall see.

[umphrey]

Gotta get Dave Denson into the top 20 as well. He's an 18 yr old that is playing above average in A ball this year. We went over slot to sign him.

[And That]

The same ones that said Lucroy's defense may hold him back and at best he would be a backup catcher. I believe BA Callis said Weeks was a 40/40 type player. Sickels(IIRC) said Lawrie's upside was that of Rogers Hornsby.

Scouts are wrong sometimes? Get out.

 

BA's 2010 prospect handbook (culled from conversations with multiple scouts) stated that the scouts were split as to whether Lucroy would be good enough defensively to be able to stick behind the plate, but his bat was major league quality. They specifically mentioned that his game-calling was questionable and his throws from home sailed to second. And that's pretty much how he hit the big leagues in 2005. The 2008 and 2009 handbooks made no mention of him being a potential backup at all. (And the irony of calling someone out for using "at best" and then using it yourself is wonderful.)

 

The 2005 handbook made no mention of 40/40 for Rickie Weeks. Neither did the 2004 version. Also no Rogers Hornsby comps for Lawrie at any point, though the 2010 handbook did mention Jeff Kent. Which is sort of like Rogers Hornsby.

 

It's easy to find a specific instance about a specific scout being wrong about a specific player, but when you start taking in multiple opinions, scouts' batting average on players is much better. Are they still wrong as a group sometimes? Sure, but this phenomenon of being wrong sometimes is not limited to scouting baseball. Criticizing the profession and then spouting forth your own scouting analysis is bizarre, to say the least.

[Noche]

Just about everyone doing prospect rankings on the internet is a 2nd hand source at best. I have yet to find anyone who can consistently pick out the quality player out of a pack of seemingly AAAA players. It's easy to spot the Ken Griffey Jr's. The people who can that come to mind, Goldstein and Melvin, are both in front offices.

[ctmyers]

I remember the Angel Salome v. Jon Lucroy debate very vividly. And I can admit I was staunchly in the Salome corner. This was mainly because his Huntsville numbers were outright gaudy, but also his coach came on here and sung his praises as the next Johnny Bench. At that time, it was Salome's bat versus Lucroy's defense. Salome had the ultra-quick pop time, but would sail throws. Lucroy could swing it, but maybe not enough to be a full time major league back stop.

 

Just goes to show that even first hand reports can be misleading.

[Mr Southpaw]

I will take a crack at making a list.

 

1. Coulter........I too, am a big fan

2. Arcia...........I think he will be in Milwaukee in 2017, maybe starting!

3. Haniger.......Seen him play at AA, seems to be very steady.

4. Taylor..........Could be our best prospect, like Arcia, could be starting in MLB in 2017.

5. Cravy..........Performance first. Almost two years of 2.00 ERA. Nice three pitch stuff.

6. Denson........Hitting with power at 19 years old.

7. Wagner........Very consistent starter at A+

8. Lopez..........Showing us the money.

9. Jungman......Servicable starter. Maybe a 5th starter at some point.

10 T Williams....Have not seen him pitch, but his stats are there. Thornberg anybody?

11 D Williams....Starting to show us the money. Only 19 years old.

12 Segovia.......17 year old hitting almost hitting .400 and he takes walks too.

13 Lara............16 years old. 3.2 million. Somebody knows something. Show me the money!

14 Delmonico....Needs to step it up

15 Zarraga.......Switch hitting catcher hitting about .350 in AA/AAA. Can he play 1B or RF?

16 Harrison.......Show me the money.

17 Medeiros......Young pitchers take so long, but again show me the money.

18 Reed...........I have always like him. He needs to make the next step.

19 Matos..........Helena 3B with a little power.

20 B Diaz.........Helena CF with power, 19 years old

 

next ten

 

21 Goforth........Next reliever after Jeffress

22 Demuth.......In Appleton.

23 Newhaus......Very young. Show me the money.

24 Gagnon........Nice AA year.

25 Bradley........Got himself to AA, can he make the next step?

26 Roache.........Power means nothing if you don't hit the ball. Please, SMTM.

27 McFarland.....Nice A year in Appleton.

28 H Johnson.... Nice year at A+.

29 Raterree.......Lots of power.

30 Rivera..........Utility guy in the Counsell frame.

 

Young Guys

 

31 Gatewood.....Show me the money.

32 Aviles..........Helena SS, nice bat, 19 years old

33 Oquendo......Arizona SS hitting above Mendoza, 18 years old

34 Atencio........DSL catcher batting .300, 17 years old

35 Pierre..........DSL CF with power, 17 years old

 

 

 

DL

 

Hellweg

Hall

Morris

[TooLiveBrew]

Morris is on the DL as well

[Mr Southpaw]

Another Gamel?

[igor67]

Gamel was a far better prospect than Morris ever has been and it took him multiple injuries to flame out.

[Mr Southpaw]

Final results look to be the same because of limited MLB chances.

[Mr Southpaw]

Looks like Nelson is off the list.

[FVBrewerFan]

Can't wait for Top 20 2.0, I will begin the campaign for my man crush Ratterree to make the list.

[Mr Southpaw]

Are we there yet?

[Outlander]

I would guess not until the first trade deadline is over.

[Duckpondbrew]

MLB.com put up its new list. Man it's a refreshing change! Nelson is up to 53 (but he'll be off soon). Our first 3 picks are in the top 6. Only new prospect other than our hope filled trio is Wagner.