Why so much K-Rod bashing?

[Fear The Chorizo]

He's not hard to figure out, he just lets hitters make enough to mistakes to be successful.

 

Since that's the essence of pitching, I'm glad he's good at it. He's great at getting hitters to chase because his secondary offerings look like they're going to be strikes...until they're not and the hitter ends up swinging at a hard to hit pitch.

 

I agree that visually it isn't always the prettiest - there's no 96mph coupled with a knee buckling slider anymore, but he's been around the MLB block so much that he finds a way to get outs frequently.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

I don't hold closers in very high regard at all so I'm pretty indifferent to his status, I'd much rather have a pen full guys capable of going multiple innings and a manager willing to utilize the pitchers in longer outings than the standard 1 inning rule.

 

 

I remember a few years back when Axford had 7 saves of 4 or more outs, and it hearkened back to the days of guys like Gossage and such. I wish there were more guys that could do that, and more managers that were willing to do it.

[brewcrewdue80]

Hmm, watching him the other day I saw hitters whiffing on his Changeup. Something I always thought was supposed to look like a FB only to be slower and with more sink at the end of the pitch. Wouldn't sitting on Offspeed waiting for meaty FBs up in the zone result in looking stupid on a Changeup that's thrown near the strike zone? Since it resembles a FB initially that they are waiting for?

[HiAndTight]

K-Rod is a guy you like more if you are a purely statistical type of fan.

 

If you watch him closely he gets by being effectively wild, he rarely even comes close to target setup by the catcher and gives up a ton of loud outs. I remember a game earlier this year where he threw more balls than strikes but made it out of the inning unscathed.

 

I don't trust him, I never have, as I hate his mechanics as a pitcher. If he ever loses his plus secondary offering he's done. I often wonder why hitters don't just sit on his off-speed and force K-Rod to throw a FB, he can't throw it by them and the breaking stuff is rarely located in the zone. It's pretty much the same way I've viewed Estrada... why wouldn't you just sit change and react to one of those juicy 88-90 MPH waist high FBs when you get one?

 

Pitching coaches and industry insiders often talk about hitters getting themselves out and I think with a guy like K-Rod that sentiment rings very true. He's not hard to figure out, he just lets hitters make enough to mistakes to be successful. Now that I'm thinking about it maybe that's my biggest problem, he success doesn't have as much to do with his pure talent as it does relying on the opposition to make mistakes. If hitters won't chase then he's in trouble but the flip side is that when things are going well for him then he's getting hitters to chase those pitcher's pitches.

 

With his velocity down he's been pretty much the same whether he gives up runs or not; he understands how to setup hitters it's just the sequence of the pitches which will be the determining factor, if he has to give a hitter a FB when they are looking FB he's in trouble.

 

He's relatively cheap for the position and thus far he's been effective so has been a good acquisition. I don't like his abusive (allegedly) past so I don't care for him as a person, and as I said I'm not thrilled with his mechanics or his pure talent at this point in his career either. I don't hold closers in very high regard at all so I'm pretty indifferent to his status, I'd much rather have a pen full guys capable of going multiple innings and a manager willing to utilize the pitchers in longer outings than the standard 1 inning rule. I understand that's just my utopian view of the bullpen and isn't realistic at this juncture given the pitchers on the staff and the manager so K-Rod is fine for what he is, but I really don't want to bring him back for 2015.

 

I don't even know what this means? That he's the type of guy you like from a purely "how he does on the field," perspective?

 

And his fastball isn't 88-90. He averages over 90 MPH on his fastball, BUT what I really take exception with is this purely fictional idea that he's wild and rarely hits the target. He has VERY good command at this point. 5.60 SO/BB ratio last year, 4.78 this year.

 

 

Some of these comments....like he's been putrid in Milwaukee, or that the only reason some like him is because of his statistics(which again..just means how he's actually performed).

 

Seriously, guys can have success without throwing the ball 97 MPH.

 

As far as his mechanics....really? He's been around for a while. Who cares what a 32 year old closer in the top 15 all time in saves throws as long as he's effective? He comes in, gets the last 3 outs and doesn't do it the WAY some would like. That's just a strange reason for not liking him. If he was 22 instead of 32, fine. But at what point does he become proven? If you don't like him because of his off the field stuff, fine. I fine almost no validity in the other reasons however.

 

Oh, and saying, "if he loses his secondary pitches, he'll struggle isn't really saying anything. If anyone pitcher does so, they'll struggle. If Khris Davis loses his bat speed, he'll struggle. It kinda goes without saying. But what is there to suggest this is going to happen?

 

 

Not every good pitcher comes in a 6'5 frame with a 99 MPH fastball and, plus curve and plus change(though K-Rod has the last two). K-Rod is getting it done and has done so while he's been a member of the Brewers.

[HiAndTight]

Hmm, watching him the other day I saw hitters whiffing on his Changeup. Something I always thought was supposed to look like a FB only to be slower and with more sink at the end of the pitch. Wouldn't sitting on Offspeed waiting for meaty FBs up in the zone result in looking stupid on a Changeup that's thrown near the strike zone? Since it resembles a FB initially that they are waiting for?

 

 

Yes, it would. And he rarely throws "meaty fastballs." He just doesn't throw in the upper 90's(he also doesn't throw 88 as he has an average FB over 90, meaning he hits 92+ at times when he needs it and does a great job of locating it. When you have such a nasty change(and curve) you can get by with 89-92 all day long.

 

 

I bash him because he bashed his wife. He's not someone I'm happy about rooting for.

 

Again, this I understand. That's pathetic. But lets say that it was Kintzler putting up these numbers, and I doubt you'd take have a problem with the actual production.

[danzig6767]

He's not hard to figure out, he just lets hitters make enough to mistakes to be successful.

 

Since that's the essence of pitching, I'm glad he's good at it. He's great at getting hitters to chase because his secondary offerings look like they're going to be strikes...until they're not and the hitter ends up swinging at a hard to hit pitch.

 

I agree that visually it isn't always the prettiest - there's no 96mph coupled with a knee buckling slider anymore, but he's been around the MLB block so much that he finds a way to get outs frequently.

No kidding

 

A lot of major league pitchers are really effective that only throw around 90-91 as K-Rod does because they have quality command and good secondary pitchers. Hell, we just saw that tonight with Gio Gonzalez who won 21 games two years ago without a blazing fastball. Loshe is another great example. When he threw really hard in his younger days, he never had the kind of success as he does now, even though his fastball today tends to sit in that 88-90mh range.

 

It's not like there isn't tons of film out there of K-Rod to watch, yet he's been getting good and mediocre hitters out for years even as his velocity has dropped because he can command all his pitches well more often than not, just like any other successful pitcher who doesn't throw really hard. Plus, he has an elite changeup which he can throw at any point in the count.

 

Speaking of that changeup. The more i watch baseball closely, the more it seems like young pitchers should all be pushed hard to learn a changeup, whenever possible. It's such a devastating pitch for guys with good command of them and not taxing on the arm. I watch Peralta and think if he can ever get just solid command of his changeup, he could be dominant. He's already really good even though everything he throws is hard, but mix in a pitch that changes speeds for hitters to think about, he'd be brutal to bat against.

[HiAndTight]

He's not hard to figure out, he just lets hitters make enough to mistakes to be successful.

 

Since that's the essence of pitching, I'm glad he's good at it. He's great at getting hitters to chase because his secondary offerings look like they're going to be strikes...until they're not and the hitter ends up swinging at a hard to hit pitch.

 

I agree that visually it isn't always the prettiest - there's no 96mph coupled with a knee buckling slider anymore, but he's been around the MLB block so much that he finds a way to get outs frequently.

No kidding

 

A lot of major league pitchers are really effective that only throw around 90-91 as K-Rod does because they have quality command and good secondary pitchers. Hell, we just saw that tonight with Gio Gonzalez who won 21 games two years ago without a blazing fastball. Loshe is another great example. When he threw really hard in his younger days, he never had the kind of success as he does now, even though his fastball today tends to sit in that 88-90mh range.

 

It's not like there isn't tons of film out there of K-Rod to watch, yet he's been getting good and mediocre hitters out for years even as his velocity has dropped because he can command all his pitches well more often than not, just like any other successful pitcher who doesn't throw really hard. Plus, he has an elite changeup which he can throw at any point in the count.

 

Speaking of that changeup. The more i watch baseball closely, the more it seems like young pitchers should all be pushed hard to learn a changeup, whenever possible. It's such a devastating pitch for guys with good command of them and not taxing on the arm. I watch Peralta and think if he can ever get just solid command of his changeup, he could be dominant. He's already really good even though everything he throws is hard, but mix in a pitch that changes speeds for hitters to think about, he'd be brutal to bat against.

 

And it's so easy to throw if you practice on it. THIS is what kids should be throwing other than fastballs....and if Peralta can develop a good one, not even a plus one, but one he throws 15-18 pct of the time, he could turn into an ace. A legit ace.

[Bombers]

Because he is garbage ... I wonder if RRR has the stones to make Broxton the closer.

[JohnBriggs12]

We are seeing the K-Rod that was a huge factor in the bullpen debacle of 2012 that basically cost that entire season. He's doing in again.

[superfly]

I don't think KRod is the source of our issues. Look no further than the 4 of 5 starting pitchers we have who have us 5 runs in the hole by the 4th inning every single night.

[reillymcshane]

14 HR in 62 innings. That's a worse home rate than Estrada.

 

His HR rate has risen each of the last four years. That's not a good trend.

 

When Frankie's 'on', he's devastating. He just hasn't been 'on' of late, and seems to be serving up some taters with regularity.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't think KRod is the source of our issues.

 

He is not THE source, but he is A source. Along with bad starting pitching, bad late inning relief pitching, bad base running, bad htting, and bad defense.

[JohnBriggs12]

A lot of blame to go around but this mess all started with a blown save in SD. They've been reeling ever since. Then with teams they are competing with all losing and the Brewers tied in the 9th and two out, he deflates everyone again.

[FVBrewerFan]

Brewers tied in the 9th and two out, he deflates everyone again.

 

The deflating part was bases loaded in the 8th and couldn't score. That was the ballgame.

[superfly]

Nobody seems to be talking about STRANDING THE BASES LOADED WITH ZERO OUTS. It was over before KRod even came in the game. You cant hit a simple flyball with zero outs, you don't deserve a shot to win the game. Nothing more to say about it.

 

KRod gives up some HRs, but I think he's adequate for this season. Not that we're going to even need a closer this month anyway.

[DocLuna7]

Nobody seems to be talking about STRANDING THE BASES LOADED WITH ZERO OUTS. It was over before KRod even came in the game. You cant hit a simple flyball with zero outs, you don't deserve a shot to win the game. Nothing more to say about it.

 

KRod gives up some HRs, but I think he's adequate for this season. Not that we're going to even need a closer this month anyway.

 

While it's true that we squandered our best offensive opportunity and probably the game in the 8th, if we were somehow to have a miraculous run and make the playoffs do you at all trust KRod in a high leverage situation in a post-season game? I sure as hell don't.

[superfly]

Nobody seems to be talking about STRANDING THE BASES LOADED WITH ZERO OUTS. It was over before KRod even came in the game. You cant hit a simple flyball with zero outs, you don't deserve a shot to win the game. Nothing more to say about it.

 

KRod gives up some HRs, but I think he's adequate for this season. Not that we're going to even need a closer this month anyway.

 

While it's true that we squandered our best offensive opportunity and probably the game in the 8th, if we were somehow to have a miraculous run and make the playoffs do you at all trust KRod in a high leverage situation in a post-season game? I sure as hell don't.

 

I trust KRod more than I trust Will Smith or Kintzler...those two are completely lost and useless. KRod has been there before. I guess we could try Broxton but that wouldn't solve the 6th-7th-8th inning issues.

[jerichoholicninja]

Just get a lead first and then worry about who will give it up.