Bad news for the Cardinals: Wacha & Garcia to the DL

[Dead Simmons]

The #2 and #4 starters, Wacha and Garcia have joined the old #4 Kelly on the DL, both with shoulder issues. This on top of #1 Wainwright being watched closely after missing a start with elbow soreness.

 

I guess we will see if Cardinal "depth" of arms is for real.

[AZBrewCrew]

Interesting. I had seen something yesterday that they were planning to skip Wacha's spot in the rotation. Figured something was up

[Dead Simmons]

Interesting. I had seen something yesterday that they were planning to skip Wacha's spot in the rotation. Figured something was up

Right. The official announcement was just to give him a "breather" to keep him fresh for the post season. That sounded pretty bogus to all savvy Card fans. We are used to the FO and Med. staff misrepresenting the truth. Also Matheny (like TLR) believes in squeezing as many innings out of the top starters as possible.

 

2011: Chris Carpenter leads all of baseball in innings pitched and is never the same again. 2012: Waino leads the NL in IP and is gassed by WS time, getting rocked by the Bosox twice.

[splitterpfj]

I read today that St L is among the teams that have been watching David Price, I wondered why they would bother chasing an arm...now we know.

[SoupTown]

Baseball has indeed 'under cared about' managing LONG TERM. It is such a delicate balancing act. For example, should the Brewers be doing something proactive NOW to keep pitchers in peak performance and health for the post season - and for future years.

 

I don't follow the Cards closely, but whenever I look they have had a starter throw a shutout or a 1-run game. So, I really fear them. I mean anyone who meets then in the post season - if you are facing a couple of true aces - is the underdog to them. But, I guess if they have run their starters into the ground before then... or the previous year...

[lcbj68c]

Woohoo! Another seperate Cardinals thread...

 

All teams deal with injuries and much like the Wild Card thread that was started, I believe every race will be a dog-fight until the final week of September. The Cardinals injuries don't make me run to my bookie and hedge my bets.

 

The Brewers will have somebody go down. The Cardinals (already dominating in payroll spending) could certainly go out and buy David Price if they really wanted to. The Brewers cannot and likely don't have the human capital to either. Every win this team can get now is huge. Somebody is going to make a run and I don't see these Cardinals injuries as handicapping them one bit in being a team that can make that run.

[craigharmann]

Wait, what? Wacha and Garcia are having Tommy John surgery? Awesome! Helps the Brewers. That's really all I care about. The Brewers. And anything that helps them get better. And anything that makes the other teams in the division worse.

[ewitkows]

neither is having tj. one has a stress fracture and the other sounds like more shoulder surgery

[craigharmann]

neither is having tj. one has a stress fracture and the other sounds like more shoulder surgery

 

I know. My point was that it really doesn't matter to me, as a Brewer fan. Unless it makes the Cards worse. Which helps the Brewers.

[PrinceFielderx1]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago..... Funny. Dead simmons I consider you good luck. Stick around.

[RockCoCougars]

I'm going to worry about the Cardinals until they are officially eliminated from the race. It seems like the more hurdles that they face, the 'rosier' they come out smelling. I have to wonder if some of that luck hasn't transferred to the Brewers this season, as it seems like a lot of breaks have been falling their way so far.

[owbc]

The Brewers haven't gained any ground on St. Louis in the past month and a half.

 

There is still no guarantee that the Brewers will even be leading the division at the all-star break.

 

Statistically, the chance of the Brewers winning the NL Central currently sits at about 50%.

 

The Brewers are healthy right now. That will not last forever. There is way too much time left to say anything about the division. I will say that they have a very high chance of making at least the Wild Card game...which equates to a 50% shot at getting into the "real" playoffs.

[And That]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago

That's because you were/are. The Brewers have not clinched anything other than not losing 116 games this year.

[brwrsfan]

The Brewers have by no means locked up anything in the division. We've won a lot of game, but our lead really hasn't grown. The Cardinals have been playing just as well, the injuries might hurt them, but we'll see. We only have a 5.5 game lead, not 20. To say it's over now is just silly.

 

Looking ahead at the schedule, we have a brutal August, so hopefully we can build up a large lead before then. Still have I think 10 head to head with the Cardinals as well, so they most certainly can catch us and I'm still worried about them a great deal. Let's also not forget that the Pirates and Reds have begun playing a lot better and while they are close to 10 games back, if they get really hot and we slump, they could easily catch us too.

[MadScientist]

It doesn't matter, the Cardinals can just take a pile of dirt, water, parsley and frogs eggs and a #2 pitcher will spontaneously generate overnight. Guaranteed to throw 7+ shutout in his first start against the Brewers.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Brewers haven't gained any ground on St. Louis in the past month and a half.

 

If I were St. Louis that would worry me more than it does us. They have played pretty well and gained zero ground.

[Dead Simmons]

The Brewers haven't gained any ground on St. Louis in the past month and a half.

 

If I were St. Louis that would worry me more than it does us. They have played pretty well and gained zero ground.

 

It worries them alright. But the pitiful hitting is what has them in panic mode. Swapping hitters back and forth from the AAA team trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Multiple lineup experiments, the latest had Holliday moved from his usual #3 to #2 yesterday. A good idea since he's on a pace to hit 14 HR's this year. (he went O'fer)

 

The pressure from the fans and media, not to mention Matheny's fear of being fired will force some sort of significant aquisition before the trade deadline. No free agent is safe! (you guys got any?)

[DuWayne Steurer]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago..... Funny. Dead simmons I consider you good luck. Stick around.

 

 

Right. Because you KNEW two top shelf starters for the Cardinals would be going on the DL in June at that time, right?

 

The race is still not over, not by a long shot. 5 1/2 games to make up with more than half a season to go is nothing still.

[dlk9s]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago.....

And even if the Brewers end up winning the division, you still aren't correct. DUCY?

[Fear The Chorizo]

What the injuries to Wacha and Garcia do is limit the depth their pitching staff has, which limits the pieces available to try and trade for frontline starting pitching, or more importantly an impact bat or two. Their everyday lineup on paper doesn't appear to have many weaknesses, other than they have an extremely limited ability to hit for power. Last year it was masked due to an unsustainable BA with RISP...this year it's actually below average if I'm not mistaken, and their run scoring capabilities have really suffered.

 

They really miss a bat like Beltran in the lineup right now. The Cards currently have 4 regulars slugging over 0.400, and only 1 barely over 0.500 largely due to a high batting average (Adams)...By comparison, only Segura and Overbay are slugging under 0.400 among the Brewers' regulars, with 3 slugging over 0.500.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Brewers haven't gained any ground on St. Louis in the past month and a half.

 

If I were St. Louis that would worry me more than it does us. They have played pretty well and gained zero ground.

 

It worries them alright. But the pitiful hitting is what has them in panic mode. Swapping hitters back and forth from the AAA team trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Multiple lineup experiments, the latest had Holliday moved from his usual #3 to #2 yesterday. A good idea since he's on a pace to hit 14 HR's this year. (he went O'fer)

 

The pressure from the fans and media, not to mention Matheny's fear of being fired will force some sort of significant aquisition before the trade deadline. No free agent is safe! (you guys got any?)

 

What happened to the offense? Is it just a matter of bad luck, age, injury or did they have a lot of good luck in the past and it is evening out? I looked back at past team stats and a main difference I see is they are not hitting as well with runners in scoring position. Considering they hit much better with runners in scoring position than they did overall I think perhaps they just had a bit more luck last season. I could see that make the offense look better than it really is.

[Dead Simmons]

They really miss a bat like Beltran in the lineup right now. The Cards currently have 4 regulars slugging over 0.400, and only 1 barely over 0.500 largely due to a high batting average (Adams)...By comparison, only Segura and Overbay are slugging under 0.400 among the Brewers' regulars, with 3 slugging over 0.500.

 

Losing Beltran was a good thing: freed up payroll and put Adams on the field every day, who along with his great glove work is the only Card batting .300, leads the team in triples and has to date 4 infield hits.

 

Carlos has been less than stellar for the Yanks. Batting .220. It looks like the guy has pretty much lost interest in baseball. Last week he pulled an on field gaffe I don't remember ever seeing: safe at first, he peeled of to the right and headed for the dugout. For some reason he thought he was out. Can you imagine the embarrassment?

 

In true Beltran form he promptly blasted one out later in the game.

[PrinceFielderx1]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago.....

And even if the Brewers end up winning the division, you still aren't correct. DUCY?

 

The race would be over in this scenario, actually. Brewers division champs! The way things are looking the Cards will miss the playoffs this year.

[brwrsfan]

and you guys said I was premature to call the NL Central race over a month ago.....

And even if the Brewers end up winning the division, you still aren't correct. DUCY?

 

The race would be over in this scenario, actually. Brewers division champs! The way things are looking the Cards will miss the playoffs this year.

 

What do you base your brewer homerism and Cardinal hatred on?? I'm sure all of us would love to win the division and have the Cardinals miss the playoffs, but there is still over half a season to go...and yes, they have 2 injured starters, but the Cardinals currently hold one of the two wild card spots (by 2.5 over Atlanta), they have the 7th or 8th best winning percentage in all of baseball and are 10-4 in their last 14 games so it's not like they've been free falling or anything.

 

This next stretch should be very telling for them. This is their schedule up to the all star break:

3 @ Denver

4 @ LAD

3 @ SF

3 vs Miami

4 vs Pittsburgh

3 @ Milwaukee

 

That's about as tough as it gets (and much like our August).

[Fear The Chorizo]

I guess I want to have my cake and eat it too on Beltran...

 

The Cards absolutely made the right decision not to give Beltran silly money at this point in his career, but they do miss a productive OF power bat in the middle of their order, which was what he gave them during his time in STL. Their hope was to get that level of production at both RF and 1st with a combination of Adams and Craig, with Taveras as the RF heir apparent once he was ready. Craig has underperformed so far this year compared to his career norms, and Adams is having a good year offensively aside from a lack of power. Both could easily improve and make this discussion moot, and Taveras will undoubtedly be an everyday OF'er before long, but I think their lineup lacks the accomplished slugger to build around. Guys like Adams, Craig, or eventually Taveras may develop into that, but they're not there yet. Craig and Adams as RF/1b options are pretty good, but aren't comparable to Beltran/Pujols manning those positions for STL a few seasons ago. Holliday's just not that type of hitter at this point in his career, either.