Diamondbacks win Tough Guy Points

[Pugger]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

 

Even if Luc gets a single we most likely get 2 runs and the lead. Getting the slam was the ultimate 'revenge'.

[sdcheezhd]

I wish Block or Anderson had said "I Don't Believe What I Just Saw."

[homer]

Kirk Gibson played WR for Michigan State, the same school that produced the poster boy for steroids, Tony Mandarich. Coincidence?

 

Yes.

[dlk9s]

Not that I really care, but seems to me Gibson should be suspended and more than just a couple games.

 

If he does, it will be a net positive for the Diamondbacks.

[RockCoCougars]

Kirk Gibson has a well deserved reputation as one of the biggest jerks in the game, so I'm glad this is making him look stupid. Normally, I'm all for retaliation, but I'm not so sure in this case unless they escalate things even more. Why risk injury?

[1992casey]

Didn't we have a situation earlier this year where our releaver only had 8 pitches to 'warm up' on the mound? I can't recall the game or situation tho....

 

Roenicke failed to have a reliever warmed up when Brandon Kintzler was removed from the game, and Will Smith was restricted to 8 warm-up pitches. The coaches who normally would have handled this (Rick Kranitz and Lee Tunnell) were attending a graduations, and minor league pitching coordinator Rick Tomlin was filling in as pitching coach.

[danzig6767]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

 

I wish i ran baseball and had ultimate authority for situations like this because i'd be suspending pitchers and managers who throw at batters on purpose for large amount of games, not these tiny 2-5 game suspensions which scare nobody in baseball. Start at 10-20 game minimum suspensions.

 

Anyone who has ever played hardball understands that a baseball is pretty much like a round shaped rock which could really hurt a person when being thrown hard, much less 85-95mph. A pitcher intentionally throwing at a batter may intend to hit the guy in a place to not cause injury, but it's not a given.

 

At some point baseball needs to take this stuff more seriously and punish offenders harshly enough to make teams/managers/pitchers think much harder before intentionally throwing a baseball at a hitter. It's not just the potential for injuring a player, teams have a lot of money invested in many of those players. Just imagine if that pitch thrown at Braun had hit say his hand instead of his butt, and broke a finger.

 

This simply shouldn't be tolerated in baseball anymore, just like football no longer tolerates say delivering a brutal late hit in retaliation for some silly perceived snub. Stuff like that can result in a 2-4 game suspension, which would be like a 20 or 40 game suspension in baseball. It's long past time for baseball managers and players to grow up and stop getting so bent out of shape over silly perceived slights or unintentional hit batters.

[LouisEly]

Braun had the best quote, referring to Gibson:

 

"You'd have to ask him," Braun said. "I wish him the best. I hope he finds peace and happiness in his life and is able to enjoy his life. I wish him the best."

[MillerParkSouth]

Love that quote so much. Gibson and that entire regime in AZ has to be on their way out. Not the type of stuff a last place team should be pulling.

[Thurston Fluff]

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Probably so. What's your point? Because a once in a lifetime situation that had to be played according to the rules every pitcher who comes in after one of their guys gets kicked out has to risk injury?

 

 

That wasn't my point at all. My point is that we could have avoided the situation by just going one reliever down rather than risking his health. Which would probably have been a better option.

 

Probably would have been. My guess is they never thought about it or they might have tried. Considering the ump was really looking for a way to get him more pitches he probably would have accommodated him. Of course there probably would have been some sort of discipline for all involved, maybe even the ump, for doing so. I seriously doubt Atlanta would have taken that sitting down. Garcia probably would have protested the game with some legitimacy.

[Pugger]

Didn't we have a situation earlier this year where our releaver only had 8 pitches to 'warm up' on the mound? I can't recall the game or situation tho....

 

Roenicke failed to have a reliever warmed up when Brandon Kintzler was removed from the game, and Will Smith was restricted to 8 warm-up pitches. The coaches who normally would have handled this (Rick Kranitz and Lee Tunnell) were attending a graduations, and minor league pitching coordinator Rick Tomlin was filling in as pitching coach.

 

Oh yes, now I remember! thnx

[reillymcshane]

Didn't we have a situation earlier this year where our releaver only had 8 pitches to 'warm up' on the mound? I can't recall the game or situation tho....

 

Roenicke failed to have a reliever warmed up when Brandon Kintzler was removed from the game, and Will Smith was restricted to 8 warm-up pitches. The coaches who normally would have handled this (Rick Kranitz and Lee Tunnell) were attending a graduations, and minor league pitching coordinator Rick Tomlin was filling in as pitching coach.

 

Oh yes, now I remember! thnx

Wasn't Duke warmed up at the time, but Roenicke told the umpire it was Smith who was coming in?

 

I think it was relayed to the bullpen earlier to have Duke ready, when RRR had meant to have Smith, which caused the confusion. Once he told the ump Smith was coming in, they couldn't change it, and he has to face at least one batter.

[WinkelsasVsSoriano]

For a team that seems to staunchly defend 'unwritten rules', didn't they break one throwing at Braun? I thought it was always "you get one", as in, if you throw at the player the first time and miss him, that's it. You had your chance and you blew it. It seemed like they were going to hit him no matter how many pitches it took.

 

Honestly, it was just dumb in the first place. I get they were going to put him on anyway, but if Montero doesn't basically make a blind catch on the first throw behind Braun, the Brewers tie it up and have the go-ahead run at third. But hey, I'm not complaining - if you want to be macho, then you live with the consequences. I've always found the amount of unwritten rules ridiculous and am glad the Brewers haven't played that game in recent years (the last egregious one I can remember was McClung hitting Pujols in an equally bad spot that led to a bunch of runs.)

 

One question: I know in situations like this, the pitcher usually gets six games so he has to miss a start. Does the manager get one as well? I'm kind of blanking on that. I'd think the league may give him 2-3, just for being so completely over-the-top obvious with the fist-bump and general dugout celebration. I could be wrong, but a few games may be warranted.

I wish Montero would get one too, just based on his ridiculous reaction to being hit in the first game, then calling for the hit on Braun, but I don't think they really punish catchers.

 

Addendum: I really love the quotes by Lohse and Braun. Great stuff. And the Brewers coach sarcastically clapping at the Diamondbacks dugout after the second pitch hit Braun was great as well (I think that's on MLB.com with Arizona's feed.)

[brwrsfan]

I think the managers get one automatically if warnings have been issued - which they weren't in this case. So it's up to MLB's discretion, but based on his reaction and quotes, I'm sure he'll get at least one game.

[brewcrewdue80]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

It happened in the 7th inning. I think the lack of retaliation is due to Lucroy coming through in that situation. If Lucroy doesn't hit that GS and we're still losing the game....I'd certainly have had my RPs prepared in the 7th or 8th innings to bean their guy. In the 7th the order was Parra(bean)/Goldschmidt(bean)/Montero(Bean) or the 8th Prado/Peralta/Owings

 

Easily can retaliate in that 7th inning. And you could easily have done it with Smith. But again, instead we had the lead and now being a division leader you pitch to win the game. We got the ultimate payback without having to throw at them. Anyone watching highlights of this game not fans of Milw and fans against Arizona, I'd be pretty sure we gained some fan appreciation towards us. And Lucroy for sure gained some fans.

[WinkelsasVsSoriano]

Sorry if this has been posted, but I didn't see it. I was looking to see how many games Evan Marshall got suspended, and maybe if Gibson did too, but it turns out neither of them have to miss any games. How in the world is that possible? That was one of the more obvious plunkings I've seen. Marshall did get fined, however.

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/mlb/diamondbacks/2014/06/21/evan-marshall-suspended-hitting-ryan-braun/11229093/

[Outlander]

That is pretty horrendous and not consistent with suspensions that have been handed out the last couple of years.

[TooLiveBrew]

Pretty clear subtext from MLB. If the hit had been on a different player from Braun, I think you'd have seen a stiff penalty.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Boo. Gibson seems to be obsessed with Braun and high-fives his pitcher after he's ejected. And Towers openly talks about the need for hitting opposing batters. And all that happens is an insignificant fine for the pitcher (who probably has a donation cup placed in the clubhouse since everyone in it seems to be on the same page)? That's complete crap.

 

Now I really, really wish Lucroy had hobbled around the bases after his grand slam while give the fist pump rounding second.

 

EDIT: Apparently, the D-Backs probably did "pass the hat" around (from the article):

 

A funny exchange occurred when Gibson was asked if Marshall's teammates, who enthusiastically greeted him in the dugout with fist bumps and high fives after his ejection, might have paid the rookie's fine.

 

"He's got to pay his own fine. That's the rule," Gibson said.

 

But when a reporter pointed out that no one would know where the money came from, Gibson smiled and said, "It's gotta come from him. Where he finds it, I don't know."

 

Then he added: "You guys are always trying to get me in trouble. There are certain things you can't say."

[jerichoholicninja]

Pretty clear subtext from MLB. If the hit had been on a different player from Braun, I think you'd have seen a stiff penalty.

 

This is probably true.

[gregmag]

Great. MLB basically invites the league to do whatever they want to Braun, while giving Kirk Gibson a free pass to be a petulant scumbag. I hate sports sometimes.

[AZBrewCrew]

Kirk Gibson can do what he wants. He'll likely be updating his resume before the season is over anyway.

[WV Brew]

At the moment, the Brewers are something like 16 1/2 games ahead of the D-Backs. Let them celebrate small "victories".

[Vgmastr]

Diamondbacks now trying to beat the Pirates in Tough Guy Points.

 

Arizona is fast becoming my second most hated team behind the Cardinals. Kirk Gibson is garbage, guys like him and Matheny have no place managing a team.

[Outlander]

It is going to keep on happening because MLB does not discipline them or gives a slap on the wrist. It is a pretty garbage organization from top to bottom so hopefully ownership just cleans house.