Diamondbacks win Tough Guy Points

[reillymcshane]

I loved this quote from Lohse after yesterday's game:

 

"You know what?" Brewers starter Kyle Lohse said. "They won tough-guy points today. But I don't know where the stats are for those. We won the game because of that. It was pretty unnecessary."

 

No better way to counter idiots than just winning. When Gibson seems more concerned about retaliating than winning, that team has a problem.

[ewitkows]

We'll when you don't have much to play for, you have to win at something

[Patrick425]

I posted this in the Manny Machado thread before this thread was started:

 

I think last night's Brewer game was a classic example of how to handle being thrown at.

 

First of all, I really respected the way Braun just took off his shin guard and trotted down to first without any emotion after clearly getting plunked on purpose. Second, Lucroy's follow up grand slam was the exact way to take "revenge" for getting thrown at.

 

I know that there are a lot of jokes about St. Louis and being "classy" on this board. However, all joking aside, I think the way the Brewers handled that whole situation last night was a complete class act. No emptying of the dugouts, no retaliatory actions...just winning the game. AZ will probably end up with some fines and suspensions. All the Brewers get is a W.

 

 

I also want to add that I was surprised that the new pitcher gets unlimited warm ups when there is an ejection. I guess I never realized this. Seems like a dumb rule. If you are going to purposely throw at someone and not be prepared with a relief pitcher, then you should not have the luxury of unlimited warm ups.

[FVBrewerFan]

Brewers have handled it well. I was thinking no retaliation tonight, until I realized Garza is starting so it's possible.

 

Not that I really care, but seems to me Gibson should be suspended and more than just a couple games. He went on a rant months ago about how he's going to hit Braun every chance he has. Then he DOES have him hit- and celebrates it. I don't know how you get more blatant than that. If MLB doesn't want this as part of the game, perfect chance to act with a significant suspension here.

[AZBrewCrew]

How do manager suspensions work? (I doubt he will get one) but do they have the same appeal process as the players?

[adambr2]

If Wang is the surprise starter tonight, you know something is up. Ha.

[Thurston Fluff]

I also want to add that I was surprised that the new pitcher gets unlimited warm ups when there is an ejection. I guess I never realized this. Seems like a dumb rule. If you are going to purposely throw at someone and not be prepared with a relief pitcher, then you should not have the luxury of unlimited warm ups.

 

It's an injury prevention thing. I get what you are saying but penalizing a reliever who didn't do anything wrong by jeopardizing his career is probably not the right way to go about punishing the team.

 

It didn't take long for LaRussa to class things up in AZ did it? Last night's game was the perfect comparison of the old baseball ways to the new. The Brewers are brash and a bit flamboyant but don't get caught up in thinf that don't matter to winning. The D-backs are the old school of revenge and tit for tat. I think the new way keeps the focus on the right thing, winning, better than the old school does.

[adambr2]

I also want to add that I was surprised that the new pitcher gets unlimited warm ups when there is an ejection. I guess I never realized this. Seems like a dumb rule. If you are going to purposely throw at someone and not be prepared with a relief pitcher, then you should not have the luxury of unlimited warm ups.

 

It's an injury prevention thing. I get what you are saying but penalizing a reliever who didn't do anything wrong by jeopardizing his career is probably not the right way to go about punishing the team.

 

It didn't take long for LaRussa to class things up in AZ did it? Last night's game was the perfect comparison of the old baseball ways to the new. The Brewers are brash and a bit flamboyant but don't get caught up in thinf that don't matter to winning. The D-backs are the old school of revenge and tit for tat. I think the new way keeps the focus on the right thing, winning, better than the old school does.

 

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

[TURBO]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

[TURBO]

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Interesting view. In hindsight, that is probably what should have happened.

[brwrsfan]

I said it in the IGT last night, but this is a type of situation that can really bring a team together.

 

You know they were pissed when Braun got hit, especially with 2 attempts and a celebration in the dugout. You could hear it in BA and Brians voice when Lucroy hit the slam. That was a huge team building moment. Like Braun as a teammate or not, the actions by AZ last night were bush league and you could tell everyone was pretty stoked to make them pay.

 

Let's hope in a couple months we look back on it as the game that sparked a huge run.

[JohnBriggs12]

Kirk Gibson played WR for Michigan State, the same school that produced the poster boy for steroids, Tony Mandarich. Coincidence?

 

Lucroy played it classy, but imagine if he'd have copied the famous Gibson fist pump from the 88 World Series as he rounded 2nd and headed to 3rd! I know I was doing it.

 

Hey Kirk, does the phrase "Don't tug on Superman's cape" mean anything to you?

[Baldkin]

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Interesting view. In hindsight, that is probably what should have happened.

 

A whole new thing to teach Wang to do!

[reillymcshane]

Dave Schoenfield at ESPN had a nice headline for this drama:

 

Gritty, gutty Diamondbacks in last place

 

Just made me laugh.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/48662/gritty-gutty-diamondbacks-in-last-place

[Patrick425]

I also want to add that I was surprised that the new pitcher gets unlimited warm ups when there is an ejection. I guess I never realized this. Seems like a dumb rule. If you are going to purposely throw at someone and not be prepared with a relief pitcher, then you should not have the luxury of unlimited warm ups.

 

It's an injury prevention thing. I get what you are saying but penalizing a reliever who didn't do anything wrong by jeopardizing his career is probably not the right way to go about punishing the team.

 

It didn't take long for LaRussa to class things up in AZ did it? Last night's game was the perfect comparison of the old baseball ways to the new. The Brewers are brash and a bit flamboyant but don't get caught up in thinf that don't matter to winning. The D-backs are the old school of revenge and tit for tat. I think the new way keeps the focus on the right thing, winning, better than the old school does.

 

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Yeah..that was kind of my thought. If a coach forgets to warm someone up that's not the reliever's fault, so for the sake of "injury prevention" shouldn't he get all the time he wants to warm up? Is it ever the reliever's fault if he get's put in without given a chance to warm up?

[Thurston Fluff]

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Probably so. What's your point? Because a once in a lifetime situation that had to be played according to the rules every pitcher who comes in after one of their guys gets kicked out has to risk injury?

[DoubleSwitch]

in classic fangraphs style they had to break down the diamondbacks stupidity in minute detail with .gifs and run expectancy tables.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-diamondbacks-grit-vs-win-expectancy/

[DHonks]

In fairness, I loved it when Sheets did this to Bonds. It was the most obvious beaning attempts I'd seen until matched last night.

 

Still, I thank Gibson for the win

[jerichoholicninja]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

 

Absolutely. If Lucroy hits into a double play, the DBacks "win" the situation and the Brewers come off looking like crybabies.

[areacodes]

The conversation changes if Lucroy doesn't hit that Grand Slam though. I know there are a lot of posters here who would like retaliation on occasion when warranted, myself included. Had Luc struck out, or grounded out, or whatever, and we don't score those 4 runs on one swing, would everyone be here saying it was handled properly?

 

I'm just posing the question.

 

Sure, we look great when Lucroy jacks a grand slam after Braun being plunked on purpose, but had that gone down differently, I'm not so sure everyone here would be patting ourselves on the back for handling that situation in the manner it was handled... Had Lucroy not taken "revenge" with that next swing, I can see people being a little more angry about Braun being hit with no retaliation...

 

Just sayin'...

 

Absolutely. If Lucroy hits into a double play, the DBacks "win" the situation and the Brewers come off looking like crybabies.

 

What made them look like crybabies?

[adambr2]

So if Will Smith, when he had to go in to a game cold earlier this season, had gone up to the homeplate umpire and made some comment about his mother and purposely gotten himself tossed, they could have just put in Duke with as much time to warm up as needed?

 

Probably so. What's your point? Because a once in a lifetime situation that had to be played according to the rules every pitcher who comes in after one of their guys gets kicked out has to risk injury?

 

 

That wasn't my point at all. My point is that we could have avoided the situation by just going one reliever down rather than risking his health. Which would probably have been a better option.

[reillymcshane]

Dave Cameron at Fangraphs, in a chat, had this comment when someone asked about Luc's grand slam last night:

 

Dave Cameron: Best response would have included him doing the Kirk Gibson arm pump as he rounded first base

 

Man, that would set off the Dbacks. It might almost have been worth it.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-61814/#more-153774

[MadScientist]

Lohse clearly did not intend to hit anybody, but he did get a guy up near the head, and nearly hit the AZ pitcher in the head. It's not surprising that drew a response from the Diamondbacks. The fact that it took two pitches to hit Braun was bad and fist-bump was over the line and should draw a suspension from Gibson.

 

I hope Garza doesn't do anything stupid tonight. Lucroy's slam is plenty to end this.

[igor67]

Yes the arm pump would have been hysterical, but coming right after the ad it probably makes him come off as a bigger jerk. Now he's the perfect hero. Maybe Braun can hit one tonight and do the arm pump.

[Pugger]

I posted this in the Manny Machado thread before this thread was started:

 

I think last night's Brewer game was a classic example of how to handle being thrown at.

 

First of all, I really respected the way Braun just took off his shin guard and trotted down to first without any emotion after clearly getting plunked on purpose. Second, Lucroy's follow up grand slam was the exact way to take "revenge" for getting thrown at.

 

I know that there are a lot of jokes about St. Louis and being "classy" on this board. However, all joking aside, I think the way the Brewers handled that whole situation last night was a complete class act. No emptying of the dugouts, no retaliatory actions...just winning the game. AZ will probably end up with some fines and suspensions. All the Brewers get is a W.

 

 

I also want to add that I was surprised that the new pitcher gets unlimited warm ups when there is an ejection. I guess I never realized this. Seems like a dumb rule. If you are going to purposely throw at someone and not be prepared with a relief pitcher, then you should not have the luxury of unlimited warm ups.

 

This surprised me as well. I hope MLB addresses this in the offseason. It was obvious to everyone it was intentional even after the home plate ump went up to him and warned him about that nonsense. Didn't we have a situation earlier this year where our releaver only had 8 pitches to 'warm up' on the mound? I can't recall the game or situation tho....